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Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | I received a card from my local JD dealer yesterday, promoting a change in their operation. They are providing a "service contract" so to speak, for their GPS "trained" technicians. Said this goes into effect, I think sometime in March, and a local representative would be contacting me soon to go over the plan. From the gest of it, I guess they want us to "pay" so much for year, for so many hours of technical assistance we require. If we call on the phone, they are required to write down the time, and go accordingly. This just rubs me the wrong way, maybe I am thinking about it differantly, but I feel they sold me a product, they should provide the service! I do not call very often for assistance, but I do not think I should be charged when I do. Makes me ponder about selling the JD GPS equipment I have and go with trimble, agleader, or something else. I feel like I should sell them a "customer" contract, stating I will be glad to purchase my parts from them, for a yearly fee!(lol) Do you guys have any problem getting GPS related assistance from the other manufacturers, other than JD? thanks, Jim | ||
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| pigfarmerj |
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nw illinois | Our dealer offers this but doesn't push it too hard. Basically consist of doing software and firmware upgrades and probably terrain compensation etc. mostly things I can do myself. I think the fee was around $300. My AMS specialists do work hard to keep me up and running. I also have AgLeader stuff and the dealer provides good service. I think all of the companies are struggling with what service should be provided free of charge and what should be charged for. Edited by pigfarmerj 2/5/2009 19:41 | ||
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| ndale |
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| I'm going to ask some questions that might make you mad, but I hope they will make you think too. Why should this be free? Because you paid good money for the equipment and it was expensive? Should the dealer also fix everything on your tractor free for an unlimited time period? Wasn't it expensive? Do the support people have knowledge about the product that you don't and does that knowledge have any value to you? What about everything else you buy, should the selling business answer any question you have, and make any repair it needs forever... without charge? I guess it all comes down to why shouldn't the dealer make some money on this service? Should they be restricted only being able to generate income from sales? I've always wondered where the attitude that electronics should have free support and repairs as long as the customer wants comes from. What's reasonable about that? It's not that way with anything else people buy so why is it that way on the electronics? I'm not trying to make you mad, I'm just trying to challenge your attitude because it doesn't make sense to me. I've bought a lot of stuff over the years and once the warranty ends I've always figured I either had to suck it up and fix it myself, or pay someone to do it for me. Help me understand what's different about precision ag. Thanks | |||
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| Gerard |
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Woodham, Ontario | I can call the service manager or shop manager at the local JD or NH dealer and get free advice. Why should it be differnt with the AMS guys? I get more info from this site than from the AMS guys anyway. | ||
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| Chad H |
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NE SD | Because we paid full list price on all of the precision equipment we bought and only paid 80% or less of list on all of the tractors, planters, etc. Our dealerships have gone the opposite way. Instead of having one specialized AMS person, ALL of the salesmen are now required to know the products. | ||
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| Ron..NE ILL..10/48 |
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 Chebanse, IL..... | I'll ask you ndale...what's your thoughts on requested service while in-warranty of any precision product? Or, should everything be non-warranted work? Do you buy any new products yourself & do you expect any type of free support for them at the dealer (that sold you) level? Should the electronics & precision stuff be different than warranty expectations on mechanical equipment? Did the original poster say whether objects were in-warranty, or out? Edited by Ron..NE ILL..10/48 2/5/2009 20:27 | ||
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| pknoeber |
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SW KS, near Dodge City | Just like Chad H. stated... We all paid full list at purchase time. If the dealer wants to make it on both ends and cut a fat hog in the middle, that's fine. But there are other dealers out there. Having said that I get along great w/ our Trimble dealer and have talked w/ them about the amount of upkeep customers (me included) require. They better make a chunk on the original sale to make it worth it. I try to be as low-maintenance as possible, but there are times that the number I have programmed into my cell is a whole lot easier than trying to make it back to the shop and/or computer and figuring it out for myself. Plus it's JD... so it requires a lot more work than my Trimble  | ||
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| BigNorsk |
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Rolla, ND | But the manufacturer should pay the dealer for a lot of the repairs. If the equipment repeatedly breaks it isn't any different than if they sold you a tractor that the engine blew up on every 100 hours. You shouldn't pay to fix what shouldn't reasonably break. Equipment should be suited to the job for which it was made and sold. Software too. If you are trying to do something, and it doesn't work, you shouldn't be charged. I know it's kind of unAmerican to say, but software should work too and you shouldn't have to pay for the errors or to fix the errors. If there comes an update that fixes errors, that should be free, including installation. The farmer didn't pay for software that didn't work, there was a presumption it did. An update that adds new capabilities, that's different. If you come and install the new update and then that results in a couple more visits, the farmer should be compensated if it causes him to lose field time. Otherwise free is fine. Don't install what doesn't work, if you do, take ownership of that fact and fix it. If a mechanic pours the wrong fluid in a tractor and causes it to break it isn't the farmers fault, if the tech puts in software that doesn't work it isn't the farmers fault. It shouldn't be a profit center to sell equipment or software that easily breaks and doesn't work. It's as simple as that. These things are not optional for many people anymore, a tractor that breaks repeatedly when new is not acceptable, neither is precision equipment. If it won't run, don't sell it. Now technical support is different, in my mind than fixing. And they shouldn't be lumped together. If a farmer calls and wants to talk about how to zone a field, I see no reason why that should be free. Most of these programs are the brain child of some mid level manager who knows nothing about how his stuff is actually used or what is really going on. He looks at the numbers and says we do this and we will make this much more money. It very seldom works. It generally just ticks off farmers and employees. | ||
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| ndale |
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| I don't think the original poster commented on warranty status. I do agree with you that during warranty the support should be included. After that it's an imposition to ask them to continually give you free service. The dealer (or his employee) spent a long time learning this equipment are you saying that education should be "given" to the customer? | |||
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| agboy |
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 Flandreau, SD | So this is all just phone calls? No on farm visits?
There is a difference if the unit is having problems or if it is just some guy that has CRS and needs help on "how do I do this again" type a deal.
Guess I need more info on the "service contract" before I go farther. | ||
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| ndale |
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| I'm going to include a comment from one of the posts above since it's the same as your comment. What does percentage of list price have to do with it? Because you paid some number pulled from thin air you expect free service? Tell me this, if you paid the asking price for a tire should the tire guy come fix your flats anytime-anyplace? I don't see the difference, you bought it and either you figure out how to deal with the problems- or you pay someone for that ability. | |||
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| ndale |
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| I agree here, if the software or hardware is defective then the dealer needs to standup and take care of it. But if the customer doesn't read the manual and wants to call the dealer for directions on how to perform "x" then why should those directions be free. Now if it's a 30 second phone call during normal working hours, offering a helping hand is just good business. | |||
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| Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | No big deal I guess, but it just rubs me the wrong way! (Of course, I still get upset at local banks that charge for checking, as I just figured it was supposed to be a "service"(lol))I won't subscribe to a service contract such as they want, I can probably muddle through it on my own. JD's stellar support is still "free", so I will probably just call them instead of my local JD person. But, was just curious, if other "GPS" companies were acting the same way? Edited by Jim1_ks 2/5/2009 21:02 | ||
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| c2gleaner |
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S.E. IL | Are you sure Stellar support is still free? | ||
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| Theinsider |
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| Hmmmm I wonder if I can talk my local car dealer into free service? because I am not TOTALLY happy with its performance! | |||
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| jaco |
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| We're lucky to have two AMS techs at our dealer. And I appreciate their time and effort (and miles) keeping me going. However, part of the problem may be that even though I have two techs available they service a huge area with a pretty high density of farm operations that utilize AMS/GPS technology. The dealer bought out neighboring dealers and the two techs service those areas as well. In the end they cover (just guessing) maybe 4000 square miles. There are a lot of farmers in that grid and we usually need help in a hurry and usually at the same time (planting, harvesting, spraying, etc.). I'll have to ask how many miles each of them put on their pickup each year. So the dealer sells the equipment and then provides 2 full time employees, 2 dedicated pickups, and a lot of fuel (at $4-5/gal. last summer, which might be why this issue got started) to keep us going. I can't ask for any more than that and it's worth a little compensation for this type of service. I guarantee we are better/more loyal customers for these GPS products because they are there. If they just sold the hardware and then left it up to us to resolve any issues with stellarsupport, well, they risk losing customers for this type of equipment. So it's a strategy that costs them but pays off in the long run. Still, that doesn't mean it should be completely free, imo. A person's time is something of value. | |||
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| ndale |
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| OK guys I stirred up this hornets nest for one reason. This needs to be addressed. I want everyone to know I didn't do this to be disrespectful. I've been on both sides of this issue and it stinks for everyone. Let me also limit this to out of warranty equipment too. In warranty equipment, faulty installations (done by the dealer), or defective/misrepresented software are an entirely different matter. Those need to be taken care of by the dealer or manufacturer. Farmers want support for free, and dealers can't afford to give away employees time. So how do you resolve this and let everyone survive? I tried the "give away support" routine and let me tell you how badly people will take avantage of that. If I will answer their question, then a majority will never bother to read the manual or try to figure out the quirks for themselves. I closed my GPS dealership 4 years ago, there are customers who still call me at home at any hour of the day or night and expect (almost demand) that I answer a question. Why should I do this? Yes they paid list price for the equipment 10 years ago. What does that have to do with it? Is it fair to ask someone to give away their time for as long as you want to ask? I think not. I think it was C2gleaner that brought up the cost of 2 full time employees, 2 pickups, gas, etc,etc,etc. Who should pay for that? Is it fair for those costs to be incorportated into the price of new sales? No. Why should the third customer pay for the first customers service? If you want your price to be fair you have to expect to carry the expenses. It's no more fair for support to be free than it would be to expect all the repairs on the tractor itself to be free for life. It just can't work that way. To try to carry all the support cost on the back of new sales is building a ponzi scheme. Somewhere down the line it all falls apart and then it's a real mess. I think it's fair to ask a customer to pay for the service they consume. The only way I know to put the costs on the person consuming the product is to charge for the serivce. So let's be productive here: How can this be done and be fair to both parties? Let's do some brainstorming, healthy, respectful debate and see if there is a middle ground that works. I'd like to see this problem resolved. | |||
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| Ron..NE ILL..10/48 |
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Chebanse, IL..... | Which are you, a customer or a dealer? I have my customer viewpoint & I think it's reasonable. I guess it depends on what one calls "service". Just shift one's thoughts totally from gps to transmissions or washing machines or pickup trucks. It should be no different. I think most service mgrs would realize that if they charged their customers for time considering an answer to the customer's 1961 JD 4010D shifting problem via telephone, they'd probably lose a customer. I believe most customers do not expect them to come work on an out-of-warranty tractor or rate controller for free, unless purchase arrangements were otherwise. I believe most farm implement dealers have now added precision specialists for the same reason they added service managers 40 yrs ago. I remember before that there were only mechanics. But dealers/mfg found they needed that person that could spend time w/the customer & perhaps either solve the problem with only advice, or attempt to solve the problem in the shop, which everyone understands means $$. Probably same w/precision. If precision tech can just tell us via cellphone that we must have some wires crossed, either in the operator or the setup, then we can fix it. If tech says it's broke & out of warranty....we pay one way or another. But, the meter doesn't start 'til that point. It's probably a different viewpoint everywhere though. Re. education...I think most major mfg are now spending or offering to spend a LOT of $$ on customer's education for the betterment of both. Did you ever attend any of the old John Deere Days? Much of that meeting time was spent educating the farmer/user/customer. The outcome either meant a happy customer with a good chance for repeat business or a good chance to create a happy customer after successful service, once agreed that was the necessity. I'm sure that's the way it works "here". | ||
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| PLO NW MN |
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NW MN | Warranty period part of purchase. After warranty rates depending on type of service phone or actual visit/in-infield. Prices for both phone and in-field poseted ahead of time. $300 for a contract that i can call someone 1 or 2 times a season and maybe get in-field...Hell No. | ||
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| jeff gordon |
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Mather, Manitoba | as long as we got beer, our techs will show up. | ||
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| Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | c2gleaner - 2/5/2009 21:26 Are you sure Stellar support is still free? No, cannot say for sure it is? | ||
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| CCS97 |
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C-IL | Stellar Support is $99 a year unless you have bought something within a year. | ||
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| delles99 |
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| I work in the industry on a full time basis and this discussion keeps comimg up every spring. I drive 50000 miles per year supporting this product and I've wondered how to make this as a break even on the support. I think that once the product is off warranty, then it becomes like every other product we buy. We are then required to pay the going rate for service calls otherwise how does one susteain the business. For example if the vehicle you're driving breaks down outside of the warranty, do you say to the dealer, I need this fixed but I'm not going to pay you for it. How long do you think it would take for the service manager to throw you out of the building. At current service rates a charge of $300.00 per year would realistically be a fair price to maintain productivity once the product is off warranty. At our dealership group we also have a technical support line that is free of charge when you buy products from us. We also provide annual training at our locations on a no charge basis. So is a service contract at $300.00 a bad deal? I don't think so and I believe the service and support of a quality organization should be worth something. JMHO | |||
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| autopilotgps |
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| One of the reasons why this service contract is good for companies is because its so hard to keep track of who you helped and for how long during busy seasons. When you start the day and have 5(and could grow throughout the day) people that need farm visits you can't spend even the 5 minutes it takes to write down who/where/when/how long/what did you do for billing purposes becuase you need to get the farmers going. It might add up to an hour+ of paperwork that you did that could've resulted in good case scenario 2 farmers running with autoguidance again(meaning more efficently). We don't do this but I've thought about it and the one reason I haven't is because the way the farmer is going to take it. We charge shop rate for farm visits but if we did it with a service contract there would be a reasonably good discount. Good business is good business. If you think you would use the alotted time then buy the service contract if you don't then just be ready to be charged for things(should be resonable though). Things like user error. Really there shouldn't be much that goes wrong on the user side of it if you teach them correctly when you set them up. Everything else should be able to be done over the phone. Which is in my mind absolutely FREE. Now if your troubleshooting a problem for a twenty min thats when you say I'm gonna have to come out there. Would you like me too? It will cost shop rate though. | |||
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| pknoeber |
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SW KS, near Dodge City | Then you've obviously not dropped several G's into an autosteer system. I would bet they also didn't just "pull some number from thin air" when they priced these systems either. They knew going in what the service on the other side of the sale would be like, and have priced accordingly. Not my fault if they didn't. I also don't shop around on these items. I know that I will probably be paying a certain price and expect the service out of it. Had I shopped it on them to several dealers/internet specials etc... then I wouldn't expect much for service. And the fixing flats-vs-GPS questions answered over the phone might be a little over-the-top comparison. But if it's under warranty and/or has road hazard, then yeah, I do expect that. | ||
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| KevinM |
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SE IL | Just got letter today from local JD dealer. Here is summary: 1. keycard and component s'ware updates-farm or d'ship 2. phone support M-F and weekends peak season 3. Priority support 4. new operator training 5. 2 s'calls per AT unit-addl @ $99 6. email notice of new products and updates 7. loaner components if down-until unit can be warranted or replaced $399/yr for 1 unit or $699/yr for multiple units or phone support only $199 OR- if elect no svc agreement 1. phone support $25/issue 2. s'calls $110 trip chg + $85/hr @ arrival half hour min chg 3. Apex- same rate as 2. I think this may be a little high. I really don't need 1 on top. 2 catches 95+% of my needs. 3 is interesting-is he going to hang up talking to someone w/o an agreement to talk to someone who does? I realize it will/may prioritize his callback order. 4 could be nice. I don't think I've ever had a s'call on AT. 6 They're going to send it anyway to try to sell it. 7 Definitely would be nice if you need it. Stellar is $99 per yr if no AMS purchase w/in a year. I realize the dealers need to earn something for their investment in AMS personnel but am not sure how to do it. Some need hand holding some need very little. | ||
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| ndale |
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| I agree with you 100% about warranty claims. If the autosteer system or tire or whatever is IN warranty then the dealer needs to take care of it. Once the warranty is out the world is an entirely different place. My comments are about OUT of warranty systems only. Sorry if I didn't make that clear at the start. >>>>>Then you've obviously not dropped several G's into an autosteer system. WRONG The first GPS system I purchased cost $43,000.00, it was L1, and only provided lightbar guidance. I know what it feels like to make a huge investment in technology. I know what it feels like to have an investment that if it fails or doesn't prove to be reliable it will financially ruin you. At the time I bought the first system my annual revenues were $100,000. Did you spend half of your gross revenues on your autosteer? Bet not. I also know what it feels like to have no product support available for that equipment. After that investment it would routinely take 2 to 3 days for an answer to my questions. I've been in a much worse situation than where you are. The difference was I had to make the investment work. So what can you do, you suck it up and educate yourself. I took a lot of lumps from the school of hard knocks those first two years. I learned about things that I would have said I couldn't comprehend before I started down this road. Do I feel compelled to give away that education? No, I paid for that with my blood (from opening boxes and fixing failed boards), sweat(from working on that beast every spare minute of the day) and tears (when it looked like I was going to lose everything because of that one purchase). I stuck it out, and made a success of the deal. If the situation was reversed I'm betting you'd feel the same as I. I'm happy to share what I've learned in the appropriate situation. When people call me 10 years after making a $4500 investment and expect me to answer a question for the umpteenth time I feel used. It particularly upsets me when I know the answer is in the manual and they are to lazy to go look it up. My attitude goes downhill in a hurry when someone calls me at midnight or five in the morning with this type of question. Am I entitled to a life outside of work or is it expected that I am on call 24/7? My experience has been everyone wants the 24/7 deal and an 800 number to call. So not only is it expected that I will give away my education for free, but I will pay for the phone call to give that away. Is that fair? I don't necessarily think charging customers for a 20 second phone call is right. But how to you motivate people to accept responsibility for their actions? To me the service contract is aimed at weeding out the "Call the support guy I don't want to bother looking for the manual" type of calls. And I think charging them is very fair. >>>>>>I would bet they also didn't just "pull some number from thin air" when they priced these systems either. The dealers are caught in the middle of this deal, the market/manufacturers/competition set the list price. The manufacturers set the discount level or wholesale pricing. So in the end the dealers that you say "have priced accordingly" are not in control of their monetary share of the transaction. When the dealer has hundreds of systems out working there are a TON of support calls some reasonable and some that are not. Reasonable or not it costs the dealer to handle them and there has to be a cash stream to cover those costs. In a perfect world they would be allocated to the original sale, but how is that done when the calls are still coming 10 years later? Where does the cash come from to hire additional help when the number of calls exceeds current staffing? These are all part of growing a business and it's something that every dealer struggles with. I've said this in other posts under this topic but maybe not here. My original intent was to challenge the customers perception that support was never-ending and free. I wanted to try to provide a dealers perspective for the customers to see so there could be a productive, mutually beneficial debate about how to deal with this. From the comments on this topic it's obvious that is not going to happen. I'm sorry I stirred this hornets nest. My assumption was the market was starting to mature and some of the conventional wisdom could be changed. Guess not. | |||
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| paul the original |
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southern MN | I understand the point you were trying to make, but you didn't make it very well. A tire is a physical thing, it works or it doesn't. I might call the dealer & ask what the numbers on the side of it mean - how much load can I put on it anyhow? And I would expect a free answer. If it blows a hole in it because it was poorly built, I would expect some pro-rated service on it, I don't care what a warrentee says. One this software stuff, it is a different ball game. The initial costs are high for a very small physical, cheap thing. A few electronic chips that cost a buck or 2 a piece, dip soldered together. Most of the cost is in the thinking part, and in the setup part. I agree there is a difficult line to find in there. On computers, I expect Dell to still have the basic support package for my 5 year old computer, to get the lastest updates on the drivers & mother board. I don't expect them to mail it to me free, but it better be on their web site for me to find. SOME support, as with the tire rating info, or the software upgrading, NEEDS to be there. I went in to mt tractor dealer & ask about an oil sender. They talked to me for 15 minutes, and suggested I leave it alone, don't buy any parts now. Should have he charged me a service fee before talking to me? Farm dealer & farmer relationships don't work that way. You are living in a very black & white world, if you don't think the JD dealer should talk to you one word unless you are paying him a fee up front. I do like the idea of customers charging a buyer's fee to any company that wants to do business with me. That is cool. If the shoe fits.... The cost of the item is _Very_ important in how much & what kind of service a person gets for an item. It is built into the price, and on that item you ain't making any sense at all. Kinda just shut down on trying to understand what you are saying there, as buying price is all about the item, upgrades to the item, and support with the item. It is part of the cost, so you just aren't making any sense on that part of it. Your point that tech info has a cost, and at some point that cost needs to be worked out is valid. But you are not making the point very well. --->Paul | ||
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| Ron..NE ILL..10/48 |
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Chebanse, IL..... | ndale Instead of calling us immature, why don't you accept the fact that most people expect some type of free support for precision farming stuff? I think you're saying it failed for you at whatever it was you were doing and you had to make your transistors out of spider webs & coal dust. The rest of us expect more. Any dealer or mfg is going to study the problem very hard, I'm sure. They're not just going to say that when you call, you pay. Personally, I expect all the support I can get on just about anything. Like others here, we don't nickel & dime a dealer to death on selling price if we're expecting more than cash & carry. If you buy a watchamacallit on ebay, then you've got no one to call...unless the back page of the manual says, "for product support, call 1-800-xxx anytime....". Then I'll call if I feel it necessary. If the answering voice says they need my cc for a $50 charge for answering questions....I'll consider it. Maybe, maybe not. If you're really doing this hornet's nest survey for a purpose & not to just vent your feelings, then you need to so note my expectations. When we get all done, you can tell me that I lose if in fact everyone else feels differently, but I'm not getting that feeling. Also ndale, what about all the factual free information you get & read on this website. Some from users, some from techs, & a lot from mfg....who do you feel you should pay? I believe the NAT group still accepts donations. Edited by Ron..NE ILL..10/48 2/6/2009 21:18 | ||
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| jaco |
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| The problem is none of those make house calls, your dealer does. | |||
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| Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | If I have a problem, and the dealer has to make a farm trip or "house call", then sure, I expect to have to pay. But if I call for an answer to a question which might not take more than a couple of minutes to answer(and I don't abuse the privilage), then I do not expect to be charged, but maybe thats just my screwy way of thinking? | ||
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| IAPrecisionFarming |
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| Those rates do seem a little high and I am a dealer, I have 9 counties that I run for an Co-op. I am the only one in the company that installs and services the equipment, (I sell 95% of it too)in the company. With the amount of equipment that I have in the country, I am maxed out on in season service. Most of time there are no problems, that is a benefit to the Ag Leader equipment. But when there are issues 80% of the time everything can be fixed over the phone. The other 20% of the time I have to go to the field and fix it. When I have to do that there is a $50 dollar service call to cover the trip, that is it. The only reason there is a charge is weed out the guys who want their handheld. When you know you have to pay for something you pay a little more attention when they are explaining how to use it. At least I do. I do make most of my money from service though not from charging for it but from the additional sales I get. Once I get established in an area with a couple guys, I service the hell out of them and the rest follows. (That is why I am pretty much maxed out) When guys see you adjusting an autosteer on a NH3 rig for a customer with your headlights shining on the gap between passes on a friday night your the first call they make when they want to get started with some piece of equipment. That is what service does for me as a dealer. One 7000 dollar autosteer system will lead to 50,000 dollars worth pretty quick. Who knows there may come a day when my bosses tell me that I have to charge an annual service fee. That is my story and it is working for time being. | |||
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| Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | Well, back to my original question. Is this "service contract", just specific to John Deere, or are other GPS equipment "dealers" doing the same? | ||
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| Ron..NE ILL..10/48 |
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Chebanse, IL..... | Jim I don't see how to email you, I'd rather. I"m sure you'd get some other email responses also. But, I think I can safely say that I have no idea if the policy comes from JD Hdqtrs or not, but that not all JD dealers are adhering to it, if that is so. | ||
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| steveMIfarmer |
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West Michigan | I would like to know how much JD is going to pay me. If they fail to inform me of something that doesn't work right how much per hour do I get paid. Like last summer when the new 70 series command center wouldn't talk with the GS2. I wasted about 3 hours trying to get that to work and finally looked on mapshots forum and someone had posted that it had issues and how to get around them. I have spent way more time trying to figure out there screw ups then they have spent helping me. | ||
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| Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | Ron..NE ILL..10/48 - 2/7/2009 08:45 Jim I don't see how to email you, I'd rather. I"m sure you'd get some other email responses also. But, I think I can safely say that I have no idea if the policy comes from JD Hdqtrs or not, but that not all JD dealers are adhering to it, if that is so. I have a yahoo email for responses from sites such as this, it is "[email protected]" I thought I had that posted in my profile, but maybe not? Jim | ||
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| Jim1_ks |
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South Central Kansas, Harper County | This is probably entirely the wrong way of thinking on this matter, but, I am putting myself in the place of JD executives that were pondering this decision. I'm thinking equipment sales are down, economy in a downturn, how can we generate more income for our dealerships in our "group". " Hey, how about charging a "GPS service contract" for or trained staff. That would be an easy way to generate some more income, with not much expense on our part?" Now this is probably entirely the wrong train of thought, but that is what immediately crept into my mind when I first received the letter informing me of the changes. When I purchased my system a couple of years ago, if I was told I would have "x" amount of service until the warrantly expired, then I would have to purchase a "service contract" after that, well, I still probably would not have like it, but I had been informed what to expect. To approach me with this at a later date, just is unsettling to me a bit. | ||
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| KevinM |
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SE IL | One thing I would like to point out. Both local JD dealers, when asked for a discount on precision items, said "we sell this stuff at list so we can pay for (insert ams guy's name) to be able to service this stuff". So I guess I don't think they should come back now and say that's not enough. BTW one of the local JD dealers is not yet trying the service agreement route. As a matter of fact salesman showed up yesterday afternoon and I showed him competitors letter. When asked if they had discussed/thought about it he flat said "No, we charge list price to cover ams guy". So maybe service agreements are just an attempt to "take the easy way out". I completely understand that this is new and dealerships are having "growing pains" with integrating this layer of the business. But I think back to cabs and air conditioners-how many calls did dealers get due to the operator running temp full cold with fan low and then it freezes up. Precision is relatively new-especially to the mainstream who just might need a little more hand holding, but will soon be as routine as an air conditioner. I would think the "early adopters" helped the "ams guy" cut his teeth so to speak and probably need less attention. I am sure for a stand alone business, selling precision equipment without some other kind of service might run into a "revenue stream shortfall". One other thought-if a dealer doesn't offer classes-that just might negate some of the phone/service calls-then I don't think they are being proactive in integrating precision into their business model-at their loss. Someone will do it. Flame away. | ||
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| torn |
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roaming | Depending on the type of service contract and the "services" that the agreement contains, and the price, I could see a service contract being a win-win for customers and dealers. For example, lets say I'm a dealer. I offer an optional $x00/yr precision farming service contract to anyone in my service area who wants it. For the $x00, they get *pre-emptive* seasonal software updates and seasonal equipment checkups. For example, if a customer enrolls in this support plan, I will make sure that their displays, receivers, and other pf equipment is updated within 2 weeks of new software releases, 2x per year (spring/fall). They don't have to call me to find out if there's new software. They don't have to wait in line behind all the other customers. They get priority attention. As a dealer, this reduces the likelihood that I will have to make other service calls, because I know that they are running current software, and I know their pf equipment is in good shape (and any time I don't have to make a service call, my customer is happier.) I'm As a customer, I make the gamble that a $x00 upfront cost will save me money by reducing/eliminating downtime in-season. Maybe I (the customer) prefer to do most of my own updates, and check over my own equipment. That's my prerogative, but I need to realize that I am accepting responsibility for my own equipment, and if I have a problem, my dealer has every right to charge me to come fix it. This thread has been really interesting to me, and it appears that there is a lot of non-communication (or mis-communication) between the dealer and customer at the time of the sale. The dealer should be very clear about what the price is including (some support, no support, or all support, and for how long). If the customer doesn't understand what is included, then it is up to the customer to ask, NOT to assume... | ||
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| raider2b |
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North Dakota | This has been a very interesting thread to read. Before I say anything I do work for a Case dealer that sells a fair amount of trimble stuff. As a dealer we have talked about this very problem a few times in the past but so far have decided against it in any form preferring to provide "free" telephone support for the equipment that we have sold. The John Deere dealer in town has decided that they will be using the fee for service format for this year and then will reexamine their choice next year. I believe how they work it is they will charge $300/farm/year for tech support for any equipment not under a warranty program. What I was told was they would provide 2 on the farm service calls and all the in shop and telephone support with no extra charge. I'm not 100% sure but I thing Stellarsupport charges a per problem or an annual fee. From my side of the discussion we provide 24/7 phone support with a cell phone that I carry even when I'm away from the shop and the only time it is turned off is Sunday morning when we go to church. We have made enough on sales every year that we are in the black at the end of the year with precision equipment. I have a couple of problems with this business model, first is obvious I'm expected to answer questions even at 2 AM, it's not bad out of season but spring and fall it makes for some short nights and I might be a bit cranky the next day. The other is if I'm working on another unit and I get 10-20 calls a day then the guy I'm trying to get done does not get finished as fast. Now I know that some will say that someone else needs to carry the phone to stop those problems but we have tried that and then they just call my home phone or even come into the shop because they don't trust or believe the other guys on the phone. Phone support is an ongoing problem from a service standpoint, you can't stop doing it and risk making the customer angry, but how do you make the bean counters happy at the end of the month when they tell you that you recovered less than 50% of flat rate hours. I will say 90% of our customers will try to solve a problem on their own before calling. But you can't spend 2-3 hours looking for something before you call and I have taken a number of those calls too. I figure that if you can't solve a problem in 10-15 min it's time to call. From a dealers standpoint it has to be everyone or no one, because even if the owner hasn't purchased any of his precision stuff from you but bought a new combine from you last summer you don't want to risk sending him away. On the other hand who should get priority service the guy that buys $100.000 worth of stuff or the one that buys a $1000 used lightbar, usually it is the $1000 guy that needs more help. | ||
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| Theinsider |
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| This has been a facinating discussion to follow & as others have already stated the most obvious facts I would like to pose a question (I already know an approximate answer!) how much does everybody think it costs to keep a GPS Guidance tech on the road annually? Taking into account Salary Car Resources (Laptop, phone, accomadation, office, spares etc) Training Insurance etc Edited by Theinsider 2/9/2009 18:48 | |||
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| techno ranger |
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| I work at a Cooperative and keep fighting this same issue. Not only do I sell Ag Leader equipment but I also sell seed, chem, fert, petroleum. We know that Precision Ag is the future but when something is new we all know that change can be challenging. Information is a commodity but the value is variable. I have many growers that have bought new planters that came with VRT capabilities but don't have a clue how to use it. The expertise at the dealer level varies from each dealer. I assisted 4 growers with Variable Rate Planting last year (3 green and 1 red) each had a different dealer that they worked with. When it came to Prescriptions for the machine THEY (not me) sold them, one had a good handle on it, two were unsure and didn't know what to do with the info and were ready to tell the growers to abandon it and the forth I actually had to update several components of his machine just so it would work (thank god for stellar support). I have yearly inputs at stake with these growers some (not all) will leverage that relationship for me to be their "FREE" tech support. One dealer was out working with the grower when I arrived and blamed my prescription for why the planter was not working. Once we (myself and someone else I know in the coop system) got it to work the grower had a question how to set something unrelated to VRT should be set and the dealer technician looked at me for the answer? This is the same dealer that cuts his prices 10% and forces me to give up margin to get the sale on my Ag Leader equipment. So it is hard to make your $ up front. I guess my point is, there is information everywhere. That is why many of you are on this site. Some growers rely on their dealers more than others. I have the growers that call you at midnight and wonder how to set the brightness of their EZ Guide 500. Or the grower that bought his 500 from the equipment dealer but wants me to calibrate it since he knows I am more dependable since I call on him throughout the year. I also have growers that read everything and are on this site and are writing their own VRT files. So how does one get paid for the time that is spent for holding hands when you are not generating income from sales? We (dealer/retailers) are not trying to get rich off of these support calls. (At least I’m not, I just want it to help cover my time, truck, support products, software…) Contract service is one idea that comes up. But farmer A looks at it and feels it’s a deal and then farmer B thinks it’s a slap in the face. I don’t claim to have the answers and I believe that’s what the intent of some of the posts were for is: what could growers and dealers come up with for a win-win situation? | |||
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