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| Trillium Farm - 10/19/2020 09:59
student - 10/18/2020 20:41
The Fendt CVT is mechanically simpler than the competing cvts, in my opinion at least. There are no clutches in that trans to worry about. The trans has its own oil, separate from hydraulic fluid, so no risk of contaminating trans oil. The Deere IVT (in the 8r at least) uses common oil, which has likely contributed to the demise of more than a few IVTs.
Sisu engines are generally pretty solid, fuel efficient and reliable. Never see many complaints about them on here. The 4 cylinder Sisu has been found in Valtra tractors up to 150hp for many years already, so these high powered 4 cylinders are not exactly a new concept with Sisu.
If you have issues it will likely be with the electrical and hydraulics systems. This is where the Fendt shines....generally electrical and hydraulics systems are engineered and manufactured at a higher level than the MF/Challengers, but of course there is a cost difference there.
If you do buy it, I'd suggest changing fluids at intervals shorter than are likely spec'd. 500 to 1000 hr engine oil intervals are not uncommon on newer machines, which is excessive to my thinking....oil is cheaper than metal. Same with trans fluid....why run 2000 hrs on oil in a CVT to save a few bucks on oil? No, oil is not better than it used to be, in fact its worse, as many additives have been reduced or eliminated for environmental reasons.
Agree with all you said, but knowing what I know in manufacturing, I think that the Fendt & MF electricals/tronics are the same. It would cost more to keep 2 separate lines, where the difference may lay is on the assembly line where Fendt workers may be given more time for the same task as MF workers thereby the lesser propensity to break-downs.
Generally, when in comes to American manufacturing companies, they tend to keep the basic platform identical, but then make minor changes between different brands (badge engineering). I think this is what you are referring to. Examples would be the Silverado/Sierra, Suburban/Yukon, Massey/Challenger, etc. However, there is a slightly different mindset that still seems to exist in Europe and especially Germany. Take a look at VW group for example - Porche, Audi and VW can have completely different engine options in parallel with otherwise similar platforms or vehicle classes. Rather than create a common platform and slap different badges on it, each brand still has it's own engineering group and acts somewhat independently. It seems that would be less profitable overall, but it's amazing how much of that happens over there. To bring it to Agco - even though Agco is a US-based corp, obviously many of their brands are EU designed and manufactured. Look at the Valtra S series - even though the engine and trans are shared with the MF 8700 line, much of the rest of the machine is designed very differently, including controls and options not offered on the MF. When it comes to Fendt, I recall reading that one of the conditions when Agco bought Fendt was that they had to agree to allow the Fendt management to steer the brand independently to a certain extent. And they have... why would Fendt be buying engines from Deutz and MAN, when Agco has the Sisu in house? Same with their electronics/electrics, Fendt uses their own architecture and suppliers, and Fendt has their own software (both in controllers and diagnostics) that is completely separate from the MF side. Sure, it costs more, but there's that EU/German engineering mindset again. If I had to guess, more of the Agco lines will be adopting Fendt electronics and tech in the future though - I'm curious if the new MF 8S tractor has a more Fendt-like electronics and software architecture. The vario trans is shared with the MF, but the rest of the platform is currently very different. Fendt does their own engineering largely separate from MF, although I assume some resources are shared.
One of my relatives works at a large Fendt/MF dealer as a tech for many years, and he has made the comment to me that he would much rather work on a Fendt vs an MF/Challenger, his opinion is that the Fendt is better engineered and thought out, and overall is built to a higher quality level. This is not to say the MF is a bad machine, but it is different and aimed at a different market.
Also, the French (MF engineering and a lot of manufacturing) and the Germans are a different culture obviously, and these differences certainly show up in manufacturing philosophies and viewpoints as well. I'll leave it at that :-)
I'm sure Chris Mayer could elaborate in far more detail since he is a dealer, and of course I could be mistaken on some of my points, but that's my view as I understand the Agco situation currently.
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Massey VT transmission... teach me!
