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Another question for Jim@Dawn about 6000 and Pluribus
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Jim
Posted 6/1/2012 16:15 (#2409434 - in reply to #2409002)
Subject: RE: Another question for Jim@Dawn about 6000 and Pluribus


Driftless SW Wisconsin

KSdeerhuntr - 6/1/2012 09:14 I asked you earlier about running your 6000 in the fall and pluribus in the spring. A few questions I have, did you guys come up with a toolbar that could be used for the 6000 units and Pluribus interchangeably without taking too much time to switchover? If not which toolbar do you recommend? Currently we would be pulling these units with a JD 7730, 190 HP 150 pto HP, around 10000 lb lift capacity. Could that be done with a 11-13 row unit? Would we need lift assist, or would gnuse link help? I'm going to invest in a montag cart and maybe we should get the cart that integrates the lift assist wheels, but I don't want to have to always have the cart attached to the toolbar. I plan on using the 6000 in the fall to apply nh3 and dry fert at the same time but also sometimes just one or the other. Then on the corn acres I plan on using the pluribus in the spring to make a nice Mellow seed bed while also maybe applying some fert at that time. On bean acres I plan on running the 6000 anytime to apply dry fert and on Milo and corn to sidedress N or apply N preplant. I'm also planning on variable rating the dry fert through the montag. Do you have any experience with deere's dry rate controller for variable rate? And will my tractor have the capacity to run the Montag?

A couple issues come to mind from your question:

- horsepower  Our 6000 and Pluribus units generally take about 10-12 hp per row, depending on speed and terrain. To be sure of sufficient power to run at the forward speeds you will like run in KS (8-10 mph) I would figure 12 hp/row for the row units x 12 units = 144 hp.  In addition there is the hp required to pull a full Montag cart over at times soft wet ground. In addition there is the 30-40 hp required for the Montag cart's air fan to convey the fertilizer.  Overall with a JD 7730 I think you are going to be a bit short on hp to run 12 Pluribus or 6000's and a full Montag cart and run the cart fan at the same time.  You could probably run 12 rows with say liquid since a liquid pump takes much less hp than the air cart fan. However when adding a nh3 tank behind the Montag and you are definitely going to be short of hp.

- lift assist is going to be required on that setup - or a lot of weight on the front of the tractor. The Montag has most of its weight on its own wheels but it does put some additional weight on the 3 point toolbar.

- making essentially a 2nd quick change toolbar behind the first makes the change easier but also moves the cg rearward making lift assist more of a requirement.

- the Gnuse hydraulic top link is a huge help in running the Pluribus or the 6000 on a mounted toolbar. The hydraulic link allows you to make adjustments to level the bar but also to tweak it on the go - raise the nose and inch or two when approaching a wet spot or dropping the nose if you hit a particularly hard knoll.  Just allowing you to run level is an important adjustment which is not usually made with a frozen large screw adj top link and a big load.

Personally I think you have a good plan of running the 6000 in the fall and Pluribus over the same path in the spring and using the Montag cart and/or anhydrous. This is very flexible and you could probably save enough on fertilizer to pay for the setup fairly quickly on a larger operation.

Toolbar - there are several different toolbars in use successfully with both the 6000 and the Pluribus.  We have a lot of 3-point customers running Moore-Built toolbars out of Benedict, NE just north of York.

They sell a nicely made heavy duty, 3 point 12R30 vertical fold 7x7 30ft toolbar with a set of gage wheels for a bit over $10,000 last I knew. Moore Built has lift assist, rear hitch, markers, etc options available. Personally I think you would be better off in the long run just buying 2 toolbars having one setup for the 6000, one for the Pluribus. One nice thing about 3 point toolbars is that they cost only about 1/3 of what a same width pull type costs due to far less parts.

And I think in the end you will need a larger tractor to make your system work.  If we figure around 140 hp for the (12) 6000 or Pluribus row units + 40 hp for the Montag fan + 40 hp just to PULL a full cart and maybe nh3 tank up a small hill at 10 mph, that adds up to about 225 hp as a minimum.  Trading for a larger tractor may laso make the lift assist less necessary depending on final tractor selected and weight on the front.

I hope this answers most of your questions. I post the reply here rather than by email since this is a fairly general question others have asked.  I have no opinion on the JD rate controller with dry fertilizer. I do know that with NH3 folks seem to have the best experience/most uniform  row to row flow division with the ANH3 anhydrous system.

Regards,

Jim at Dawn



Edited by Jim 6/1/2012 21:30
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