RCD - 9/18/2012 02:10

Seems like I've missed the initial excitement of this topic, but I will give my 2 cents worth.

First off, the type of feed program the herd is on (silage year round, creep for the calves, no creep for the calves, etc.) plays a small or non-existent role in adjusted WW. Schaff Angus in ND does require that their cooperating herds feed silage even during the summer because it provides an environment where the calf is never nutritionally lacking (whether he is nursing a silage fed cow or even eating some of the silage himself). One would assume that an animal (or calf) with unlimited nutrition would perform better than one with no silage or even creep. Unfortunately, most associations don't have boxes that read "did you feed your cows silage on pasture" that you can check when submitting WW. Therefore the association assumes Schaffs cattle are fed just the same as the neighboring herd that only had access to open range with a limited set of feed resources. In their eyes they are comparing apples to apples when in reality they are not.

Secondly, the angus association (for example) allows that WW be taken as young as 120 days old and are then adjusted based on their growth in that 120 days for the rest of the period. Lets say for example that the cow was an amazing milker and the calf grew at an astonishing rate the first 120 days, at which time the "official" weights were taken. The association then assumes that the calf would continue to grow at a similar rate for the remaining 85 days whether he did or not. The same issue comes about with some YWs in cattle. If a calf is weaned and pushed really hard the first XX number of days, the actual weight can be taken and then adjusted (in a favorable manner) even though the calf's ration may be later backed down to a more reasonable development ration. The following statement taken right from the Angus Association website even describes weighing guidelines with the disclaimer that they can technically be distorted.

"The suggested period between weaning and yearling weight is 160 days. A common mistake is that the two weights are taken too closely together. Although the window of acceptable weaning weight ages is 120 to 280, and yearling wt age 320 to 440 days of age, you need to try to allow for more postweaning gain growth time to better characterize the trait."

It really comes down to the saying "Figures can lie, and liers can figure". If a purebred breeder wants to do so, it is possible to utilize commonplace management practices (or non-illegal although economically questionable feeding regiments), as well as taking actual weights at times when adjustment factors will be in their favor, to get association reported numbers that are legit, while at the same time hard to believe as attainable.

I agree with many that cattle that are pushed extremely hard to achieve maximum WW and YW numbers in our "Bigger, better, faster" world may tend to disappoint when placed in a "commercial" or "real-world" environment where they need to survive and be efficient with a limited set of resources.

But I sell bulls myself, and it seems many buyers that show up want a yearling bull that can breed 25 cows in 60 days, was only fed "a few" pounds of corn every day, had the biggest WW or YW in the group, yet one of the lighter BWs, is tall enough to breed those 25 mature cows, but won't get "too big" in 2-3 years and won't lose much condition in the first breeding season. By the way, he also needs to be from the best cow in the herd who shouldn't be over 1250 lbs, she must have a perfect udder at age 10, and he had better be eye appealing. Though my description is somewhat an exaggeration, many guys who look seem disappointed that each bull in the pen doesn't meet that criteria, or even worse someone else picked one out before they did!?!?!?!?

My final thought before I go has to do with buyer preferences. Many on here have expressed concern about bulls that are too fat and have issues down the road as part of being fed to obtain maximums, which I believe to be a valid concern. I have consigned to a few sales with bulls that are in what I consider to be optimum condition. Not fat like a steer, but fed at a rate for optimum growth to remain functional and express their genetic potential (usually around a 3.0 lb + daily gain). That puts the corn in their diet (at my place) a little over 1.0% of bodyweight which is around 13 lbs of corn on a 1250 lb bull which I consider to be a God's plenty. That means at a minimum, half of their diet should be some type of forage. At each sale I consigned to, the sale order committee told me that my bulls needed to have more condition on them because that is what the buyers want. I told them how the people I speak with don't want a bull that is over-conditioned and their paraphrased response was: "They may tell you that, but watch the bulls that come through he ring and they will pay more for the fatter ones every time". I have since quite taking bulls to consignment sales. Also, if breeders tell you they are only giving their bulls "a few" pounds of corn each day and are getting adj. YW nearing the 1400 lb range, you may want to have them define "a few". In the end each buyer needs to pick bulls out that fit their needs from breeders with similar programs. I have my personal beliefs on creep feed, post-weaning gain, and growth, but that doesn't make them right......just my opinion and I hope I can find buyers that agree with my approach and are happy with their purchases.