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CattleLand

Posted 8/9/2017 08:21 (#6175925)
Subject: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Illinois

I don't know anything about pivots. So I'm looking for input from you guys..
We don't farm river bottom ground nor sandy ground. Our land is mostly flat, kinda square, and varies dark to light soils.

Do you have to get drilling permits to look for aquifers and drill?

How much do pivots cost?

What is the cost per acre to run?

Just looking for rules of thumb to get thinking right.

From what I am told, irrigation could account for 50-150 bushels of corn, based on the weather of that growing season. So IMO, a guy could almost pay for one in a summer drought. And in a good year, if our yields are 180-200 bu/ac, why not be able to push those yields to 225+ and make it rain when it needs to rain?

berggrenfarms

Posted 8/9/2017 08:43 (#6175996 - in reply to #6175925)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Nebraska, The land of corn and cattle

I can answer some of your questions, but I have a question for you, do you have tile on this ground? If so, IMHO you dont need irrigation, ever. If you need to drain the ground most years to farm it then you shouldnt get to put water back on it for the one year out of 10 or 15 that you get a little dry. I know thats not gonna be well received by some on here.

Yes you have to have permits to drill a well, and I have no idea what they charge to drill, but I would guess its at least $100/ft probably closer to $200/ft

Pivots are cheap, its the other stuff that gets you, well, wellhead, power unit, generator, etc.

If you have 200bu corn on average now, I doubt youll be growing 300bu just from the irrigation. 25bu might be pushing it on average. And even then, it doesnt always pay, last year we had 175bu dryland, and 230ish on the irrigated. The dryland was more profitable per acre than the irrigated. In 2012 it wouldve been better to be all dryland, we didnt raise a bushel, but we pumped alot of water and only raised 125-150bu on the irrigated.

CattleLand

Posted 8/9/2017 09:05 (#6176040 - in reply to #6175996)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Illinois

Most all of our ground has some tile but its not all patterned tiled. I understand where you're coming from, but according to Dr. Below, weather is the #1 factor of raising corn and accounts for ~70+ bushels. I know that weather includes rain, wind, temperature, etc., but if a guy can control his "rainfall", be able to cool down his crops at night with cool aquifer water, be able to sell the rotary hoe and turn on the pivot to 2/10" of rain to help that corn or beans get through crusted soil, and so on. That seems it would be worth a lot and could be utilized more than 1 year out of 10-15 years.

kagen

Posted 8/9/2017 09:47 (#6176133 - in reply to #6176040)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Panhandle of Ne.

Let's say you average 25bpa more. At $3, that's $75. That would be about breakeven just for irrigation cost. Then you'll have the 200k investment in just getting set up to irrigate that would need servicing. Not even talking about baby sitting the sprinkler, well, under ground pipe, under ground wire etc. I've always likened running sprinklers to being married to blonde haired beautiful wife, they're high maintenance.

berggrenfarms

Posted 8/9/2017 10:26 (#6176201 - in reply to #6176133)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Nebraska, The land of corn and cattle

kagen - I've always likened running sprinklers to being married to blonde haired beautiful wife, they're high maintenance.

At least the blonde would be some fun once in a while lol

Big Ben

Posted 8/9/2017 22:57 (#6177532 - in reply to #6176133)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA

kagen - 8/9/2017 07:47

Let's say you average 25bpa more. At $3, that's $75. That would be about breakeven just for irrigation cost. Then you'll have the 200k investment in just getting set up to irrigate that would need servicing. Not even talking about baby sitting the sprinkler, well, under ground pipe, under ground wire etc. I've always likened running sprinklers to being married to blonde haired beautiful wife, they're high maintenance.

That's an apt comparison.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9ZZgDqzAg

blacksand

Posted 8/9/2017 13:56 (#6176500 - in reply to #6175996)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

South Dakota

We've got irrigated ground that's tiled and irrigated. This matches our rainfall patterns. We get lots of rain in the spring and then get dry in the summer. Tile only gets rid of water that's in excess and therefor unusable to the plant (it's at saturation or above field capacity). We keep our soil at field capacity where the plant has just what it needs. In the spring time, we are saturated many times or in potholes, which is a yield robbing situation. Tile takes us from 130 bpa to 150-160, then tile takes us up another 50-75 bpa. Tile lines run in the spring and are dry by mid June.

DBFarms17

Posted 8/9/2017 09:36 (#6176110 - in reply to #6175925)
Subject: pivots long response.

Sorry for the long wind response but you asked for a long one.

really depends on your area and how deep your well is.

Well around here is 105 dollars a foot. I have wells that are anywhere from 100 feet deep to 500 feet deep. you can do the math for your area. some wells around here artesian are up to 1200 feet deep, this is new in our area and only used in limited water areas - water quality is lower at this level.

A 7-8 span pivot with over hang 1300 ft irrigates 135 acres +/- a few - runs anywhere from 55,000 to 80,000 on the company and what pivot you get/extras.

next comes the pump which is also a variable cost depending on how deep the well is and the what part of the well you are pumping from. Pump in 100 ft well pumping at 50 foot. is 10-15k
--- well at 500 foot pumping at 400-480 foot cost goes up to 35-45K
--- this also ranges in price if you are doing turbine pumps or submersible.
--- cant remember the cost differance. some fields we have turbine some we have stainless submersible you really need to reserch whats best there. our SD wells are stainless because of had water - nebraska good water is turbine...
-- also depends on the well driller once again don't get talked into one or the other your case is always field dependent.

next comes the engine/electric/Nat. gas/ VFD drive... - every area is different and I feel like a idiot because i did not do enough research here and I really cost my self in the long run maybe... still kind of seeing if I'm dumb or not because, at the moment i have diesel in and nat gas in nebraska - nat gas is so cheap wish I had more of these but - can't operate via phone turn on because of engine start up limitations. diesel - isnt bad but is most expensive this year it paid. fuels cheap and I couldnt get load controlled by electric company - (load control - electric company shuts you down during peak demand, this year was a lot because of High temps) diesel and nat gas that doesnt count.

most wells 3 phase is required unless you have vfd drive and wish i would have looked into roto phase and VFD for pivots not near 3 phase. because then i could control from phone. I farm 30 miles apart and work off the farm really makes operating pivots trickier when your 30 miles from engines.

Do your home work, this isnt for most farmers pivots are a lot of work and I mean alot of work. when all the rest of the farmers at the lake im messing with pivots and fertigating and all the this other crap you dont think about till you get pivots.

your in illinois so you pry can grow 200 + bushel corn, so you are use to residue, I assume you have cattle that helps so you can graze stocks because you have more vegetation. one of my big problems is managing residue in no-till with 250+ corn not as easy as you think, rotation helps, cover crops help, cows are a necessity jmho. my grounds different then yours this year there will be 150 bushel difference in dryland vs. irrigated here.... easily.

we have tile in every piece of ground around here but they are our bottoms i farm up to 20 degree slopes, tile manages my water so my hills get enough and my pivots dont get stuck in bottoms.

once again my situation is different but me personally, I think it is dumb not to have irrigation.... even if you were 40 + inches a year you can manage nutrients better and water when your short. your cost of acre may go up and ROI be different but this year will pay for most of my pivots and 2012 easily did with higher prices.

Put pencil to paper and check with everyone and i mean everyone around you and find out what works best in your area.

hope this helps, just a dumb kid that doesnt get vacations because all's I do is fix pivots and most of mine are newer.

CattleLand

Posted 8/9/2017 15:20 (#6176601 - in reply to #6176110)
Subject: RE: pivots long response.

Illinois

That is some good information, I appreciate it.

SamT

Posted 8/9/2017 13:35 (#6176473 - in reply to #6175925)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Texas

How deep is your water? That's the major factor in cost.

Where I'm at a guy can drill, case, set pump and electrical and tie in a 75-150 gallon well for around $12,000. (Water is 30-60') You'd need 4-5 to run a standard 1/4 mile pivot.

70K for the pivot and pad pretty easy.

Cost you around $6 an inch for electric and maintenance. That will go up the deeper the wells, but could be as low as $3-4 if you have a single good well that's not too deep.

Permits depend on your state or water district. There's lots of places with no permitting required still.

If your water is deep a test hole could run 3,000 and a drilled well with a pump head and motor may run 100k! ( there is some cat natural gas engines that run almost 100k alone, but with maintenance and timely rebuilds last for a few generations)

The well driller is your first stop. He should know the answers to pretty much all your questions up to the pivot and probably knows right off the bat if it's worth even punching some test holes.

CattleLand

Posted 8/9/2017 15:22 (#6176604 - in reply to #6176473)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Illinois

Water depth is unkown to me, that would be the first thing that needs to be checked out. Thanks for the other information.

blacksand

Posted 8/9/2017 13:49 (#6176488 - in reply to #6175925)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

South Dakota

Everyone's answering the cost question, but I've got some questions to ask you. At 40+ inches of rain/year in soil with decent water holding capacity, it's hard for me to fathom that water is the limiting production factor are you sure that's your limiting factor? By that logic, North Carolina, where they get 60 inches per year should raise phenomenal corn (although I have seen pivots in North Carolina, but it's sandy ground). Is fertility the problem, is drainage the problem, is it soil health? Our average total precipitation is 25 inches here. I usually put on 5+- inches/year, bringing me to 30. Under the circle, I've been in the 230-255 the three years I've had irrigated ground. I'd think there's something else that is the problem other than moisture here.

CattleLand

Posted 8/9/2017 15:33 (#6176619 - in reply to #6176488)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Illinois

Average rainfall for our part of the state is around 39.5 inches. I'm not blaming rainfall as our total limiting factor, but in a year like this when rain has been far and few between, it sure would be nice to give it a drink and eliminate the tip back on the corn and help out during pod fill.

frozenhead

Posted 8/9/2017 15:34 (#6176622 - in reply to #6175925)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

NW Iowa

I think you need to look at soil type to have a idea how much of a increase in yeild you will get. To me 50 is a good ballpark. I don't think people understand how much water it takes to grow bushels of corn. 20 to 25 inches is a pile of water. Also the timing of water use when it's needed with irrigation is key. It's almost impossible to have a good slow 2" soaking rain every week from July till the end of growing season.

If you have a soil that doesn't have much internal spacing you many not get as good of yields. You need the water and O2.

My irrigation is different than a pivot but once I started and saw the difference I would never go back. I just keep adding a few more acres every year.

CattleLand

Posted 8/9/2017 15:41 (#6176630 - in reply to #6176622)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Illinois

How is your irrigation different?

frozenhead

Posted 8/9/2017 16:20 (#6176675 - in reply to #6176630)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

NW Iowa

Drip irrigation.

Edited by frozenhead 8/9/2017 16:22

Cravenfarms

Posted 8/9/2017 18:12 (#6176864 - in reply to #6176675)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Nemo

What kinda drip are you useing.

frozenhead

Posted 8/9/2017 18:39 (#6176902 - in reply to #6176864)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

NW Iowa

I have been using Toro aqua traxx. 60 inches between lines burying 12 inches deep. My first 5 acres I put in about 5 or 6 years ago to try it out. Been running a crap load of fertilizer through that first section to see if it would clog. Make my own liquid fertilizer from Dap, Potash, and AMS. Haven't seen any problems. At end of each year I dig up a section to make sure everything is still working good. I also add O2 to water. ( Nano bubbles ). Trying to oxygenate water and also carry and much O2 as possible.

I'm sure other drip tape are just as good. I just use toro because they have a great program that tells you pressures run lengths and stuff like that. Since I put it in myself it's a huge help.

SamT

Posted 8/9/2017 19:29 (#6176992 - in reply to #6176902)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Texas

Have you ever thought about some of the soluble products that are meant for drip tape?

I'm not sure what you actually end up with when you slurry granular P and K. I've seen some amazing stuff with Tracite products through tape and irrigation water, it doesn't take a lot either. Ortho phosphate products do pretty good too if your water isn't too hard.

Of course you can run 32, amthio, and KTS through tape. I'd run Tracite hi phos or Nucleous O phos for P.

frozenhead

Posted 8/9/2017 19:36 (#6177010 - in reply to #6176992)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

NW Iowa

Buying liquid fertilizer here is way to expensive.

Cravenfarms

Posted 8/9/2017 19:32 (#6177002 - in reply to #6176902)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

Nemo

Been kicking around pivot or drip tape I really like the underground irrigation system ideas . No good way to do a well here as I was told 1200 ft or more depths with poor water , so considering a lake and useing less water through the ground .

frozenhead

Posted 8/9/2017 19:43 (#6177030 - in reply to #6177002)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

NW Iowa

Water has to be clean for drip. I'm sure it could be pumped from pond but would need to run through some kind of filter system. You also need to know what's in water. Have it tested to see if its good for drip.

I'm lucky I live on top of a lake. 10 feet under surface is water table. Gravel and water.

Now_What

Posted 8/9/2017 21:35 (#6177360 - in reply to #6177030)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

In California there is a few million acres of drip pumping out of dirt ditches, canals, drains, ponds and even directly out of the river.

Pumping out of a well isn't really much better than using surface water from what I have seen and experienced. When you are pulling lots of water out of a well you have to deal with pumping sand, and when you have an older well it's not in common for the casing to get a hole in it and you can pump a well into a hole if you don't watch how much sand your are pumping.

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frozenhead

Posted 8/10/2017 09:09 (#6178021 - in reply to #6177360)
Subject: RE: Seeking information on irrigation pivots

NW Iowa

I'm sure the filtration system pulling from pond or lake is way more that what I use. Mine only runs through a 200 mesh stainless steel screen. I do flush it out once a month to pull out sand particles, that only takes about 30 seconds. I'm not sure what system is needed to pull from lake or pond but guessing it fairly high maintenance.

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