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SMKX

Posted 9/15/2015 00:01 (#4789675)
Subject: How many bushels do you dare

Wanting to pull pair of 650 bushel wagons in tandem. Wagons have brakes all the way around. Tractor that will be pulling is 200HP MFWD and is weighted and dualled. I have some pretty decent hills. Do I dare load em up or hold back. Thinking of 800-900 and see how it goes. About a 10 mile run

Edited by SMKX 9/15/2015 00:37

Gerald J.

Posted 9/15/2015 03:28 (#4789716 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

That's how my tenant hauls grain to the elevator. More like 1300 bushels per trip with two wagons. I haven't kept track of the tractor size, he trades often.

I hauled 450 bushels in two 275 bushel wagons with my 4020 once. Weighed 40,300 pounds over the scale, but could only get it up to 16 mph. Thought that without wagon brakes that was not a safe idea so I didn't do it again.

This in fairly flat terrain, our steepest hill is getting on the scale at the elevator.

Gerald J.

Edited by Gerald J. 9/15/2015 03:32

iseedit

Posted 9/15/2015 05:25 (#4789741 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

central - east central Minnesota -

SMKX - 9/15/2015 00:01 Wanting to pull pair of 650 bushel wagons in tandem. Wagons have brakes all the way around. Tractor that will be pulling is 200HP MFWD and is weighted and dualled. I have some pretty decent hills. Do I dare load em up or hold back. Thinking of 800-900 and see how it goes. About a 10 mile run

It's a risk . . . . brakes all around the wagon, do no good, unless you have an actuator to control them. You could get along very good for several hundred pulls, all it takes is one bad pull to kill someone or wreck equipment. Wrecking equipment isn't so bad, as insurance should take care of that problem - but, killing someone would be hard to live with. Is there a lot of traffic on this road you travel ? (a lot of traffic would be more then 200 vehicles a day, in my book). How much risk exposure are you up for ?

Bigboyfloyd

Posted 9/15/2015 05:36 (#4789751 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

SW Michigan

If you have steep hills, going uphill will probably be what could give you an issue, especially if it's gravel road. I have a friend who was pulling a couple of big wagons and run out of footing about 3/4 way up the hill, he was able to hold it their until we got there with the articulated tractor to hook onto the front of him and pull him over the top. He had the power, just not FWD, I'd probably try it light first and see how it goes.

m3farmer

Posted 9/15/2015 06:52 (#4789819 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

SW Minnesota, Lyon County

I do it with a CIH 7220 (160 hp). Yes hills can be an issue, but it's what we do here. I've pulled them with a CIH 7140 (similar size as you plan on using) and it's worked much better. I've pulled onto the scale in town at over 100,000# many times.

17821x

Posted 9/15/2015 06:58 (#4789833 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

NE Iowa

The pick below shows what happened in our neighborhood a couple years ago. Pair of 650 wagons and a steep hill...............

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Illinois Steve

Posted 9/15/2015 07:04 (#4789846 - in reply to #4789833)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

North Central Illinois

Holy Crap!! That picture pretty much says it all. I sincerely hope no one was hurt.

17821x

Posted 9/15/2015 08:47 (#4790031 - in reply to #4789846)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

NE Iowa

Driver walked away. No seatbelt. Hit the windshield pretty hard and doesn't remember what happened. Driver had probably pulled that train several hundred times before that day. They got a new tractor and wagon and still haul that way today. They used to pull those wagons with an 8920 2wd and where they unload you can't run duals.

JD9530

Posted 9/15/2015 07:13 (#4789862 - in reply to #4789833)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

I'm sure I will get blasted for asking but with that kind of money tied up in tractor and wagons why not use a semi? I would think a semi would be much safer on the roads than an overloaded tractor.

Cliff SEIA

Posted 9/15/2015 07:24 (#4789882 - in reply to #4789862)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Because there are situations where wagons work better than trucks.

vailcat

Posted 9/15/2015 07:32 (#4789898 - in reply to #4789882)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

NCND

Off topic but why don't guys have trucks? I had never seen wagons used until I was working down in SE SD about 15 years ago. Just curious.

I would do it if you had a 300+hp mfwd but otherwise I wouldn't try putting them together with anything smaller. Would be too bossy for a smaller tractor.

Cliff SEIA

Posted 9/15/2015 08:28 (#4790001 - in reply to #4789898)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Because until recently most of our hauls were under 2 miles, already had the tractor and have several bin sites that are difficult to impossible to get a semi into. Bought our first Brent 640 wagon in 2000, bought a 644 in 2004 and another 644 in 2009, haven't spent $500 in repairs or maintenance on them and most of that was to replace two tires. If you average the 3 wagons together they are worth quite a bit more today than what we paid for them.

AGB

Posted 9/15/2015 11:02 (#4790209 - in reply to #4790001)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Mid-Michigan

Cliff SEIA - 9/15/2015 08:28

Because until recently most of our hauls were under 2 miles, already had the tractor and have several bin sites that are difficult to impossible to get a semi into. Bought our first Brent 640 wagon in 2000, bought a 644 in 2004 and another 644 in 2009, haven't spent $500 in repairs or maintenance on them and most of that was to replace two tires. If you average the 3 wagons together they are worth quite a bit more today than what we paid for them.

They work for our operation also. Common sense on the road and speed is important with them.

Illinois Steve

Posted 9/15/2015 07:29 (#4789892 - in reply to #4789862)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

North Central Illinois

I understand your point but everyone's situation is different. We are all semis but that is what works for us. Some people have older grain set ups that were just not designed for semis and others want to avoid semis because of all of the licensing and regulatory BS. I would guess we are not too far away from the big wagons and tractors falling under some sort of rules and regulations.

paul the original

Posted 9/16/2015 07:19 (#4791604 - in reply to #4789862)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

southern MN

Coop here went back to hauling water and chemical tenders with stout hay racks, because the regulations on semis was getting too burdensome.

Who can afford a semi for a couple weeks worth of use?

Lot of folks pull 400bu wagons with a 3/4 ton pickup, 300 bu with a 1/2 ton around here.

80-100 hp tractor handles 400-600 fine. Weight the thing right. Pair of 600bu wagons is very, very common behind whatever fwa tractor they use. Duals are uncommon, most elevators tend to be narrow.

In this area elevators were built every 5 miles apart following the rail lines, and perhaps 1/2 of those locations are still grain elevator coops, so you have a fairly short trip on a fairly rural road.

Semi is uncommon, really. Gaining as farm size increases, but overkill for most.

Paul

Tomcat

Posted 9/15/2015 07:21 (#4789875 - in reply to #4789833)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Ludington/Manistee MI area

THANK YOU for those pics baffles me that folks will pull 1200 to 1300 behind a tractor but have a stroke if someone else is running 10 pounds over on an 18 wheeler or don't have a CDL and all your ducks in a row to haul a 6 ft brush hog on a gooseneck.

Edited by Tomcat 9/15/2015 07:21

durallymax

Posted 9/15/2015 08:40 (#4790023 - in reply to #4789875)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

It's all about the setup really. Wiggle wagons with surge brakes aren't the safest. A trailer with real brakes and tongue weight with the right amount of axles can be safely pulled by a fairly small tractor. Look at the size of trailers compared to the size of the tractors in a lot of places overseas, the difference is the safety that's designed into them. A wiggle wagon with surge brakes wouldn't be allowed on the road.

Offroadnt

Posted 9/15/2015 07:36 (#4789904 - in reply to #4789833)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Southern Alberta Canada

Why did the tractor break in half? He got it bouncing or something?

17821x

Posted 9/15/2015 08:43 (#4790026 - in reply to #4789904)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

NE Iowa

Based on the black marks the tractor got sideways and pushed pretty hard. A tractor is not designed to take much load on the side. The transmission housing snapped in half.

pvfarms

Posted 9/15/2015 20:08 (#4790809 - in reply to #4790026)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Northwestern Minnesota

17821x - 9/15/2015 08:43

Based on the black marks the tractor got sideways and pushed pretty hard. A tractor is not designed to take much load on the side. The transmission housing snapped in half.

it was probably the 1999 model with the hole in the frame

Illinois Steve

Posted 9/15/2015 07:00 (#4789834 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

North Central Illinois

You know your terrain and roads better than the rest of us. With steep hills I would be a little gun shy unless you really have the tractor weighted up. You have the right idea about starting out with small loads. You can pretty much gauge things from there. We have guys around here pulling 500 and 600 single wagons with 3/4 ton pickups. That drives me crazy. Talk about asking for trouble. I know the wagons have brakes but when that much weight gets to pushing, that little pickup doesn't stand much of a chance. A tractor is the only safe choice for those big wagons.

Edit: After seeing 17821X's post with picture disregard most of what I just said. I would rent another tractor and pull one wagon full behind each tractor. That picture pretty much says it all. If you were in flat country different story.

Edited by Illinois Steve 9/15/2015 07:03

Cliff SEIA

Posted 9/15/2015 07:22 (#4789876 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

We've been pulling 2 Brent 644 wagons behind a MX240 for several years, have a couple of hills we can't pull with the wagons loaded full but you just plan ahead and don't load them as heavy or go a different way. With the brakes working on the wagons they will hold the tractor back going down hills so it's just going up them that's a concern.

Buster 50

Posted 9/15/2015 08:50 (#4790039 - in reply to #4789876)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

North West IA/western AZ

Cliff SEIA - 9/15/2015 07:22

With the brakes working on the wagons they will hold the tractor back going down hills so it's just going up them that's a concern.

Up hill on a gravel is the worst because your brakes don't help at all pulling back like that. Plus as you spin, you make it more difficult to pull. I tried it with 2 650's behind a 4960 JD 1 time. Scary!

AGB

Posted 9/15/2015 08:00 (#4789945 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Mid-Michigan

We pull a 744 brent (about 720-740 bu. and a 350 bu behind that sometimes. The brent has brakes, the other doesn't. We pull this with a 7720 MFWD no duals and no hills. It is a load and its scary. For us its about speed. W don't go very fast. It works ok but speed is the common sense factor.

Edited by AGB 9/15/2015 09:32

Showtime

Posted 9/15/2015 08:19 (#4789985 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

N.W. Ohio

that picture reminds me why we just buy a grain cart and haul it to the semi on the road... that is very scary picture.

Cliff SEIA

Posted 9/15/2015 08:31 (#4790008 - in reply to #4789985)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Trucks are probably safer than wagons but to say that based off one one picture is pretty ignorant. I could find plenty of pictures of wrecked semi's pulling hopper bottoms.

Showtime

Posted 9/15/2015 09:33 (#4790095 - in reply to #4790008)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

N.W. Ohio

you are correct. I guess let myself be more clear. When hauling that amount of bushels at a time semis are better. We have wagons for when its silly to put 200 bushel on a semi

Edited by Showtime 9/15/2015 09:33

5288

Posted 9/15/2015 11:17 (#4790220 - in reply to #4790095)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

S.E. South Dakota

I pull 1 650 behind my Versatile 876. All I want.

45Deere9670

Posted 9/16/2015 06:56 (#4791563 - in reply to #4790220)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

St. Joseph, Champaign County, IL

Have had close to 1200 behind an IH 5488 MFWD a couple times, no problems. No hills to speak of here, though.

jd8430e

Posted 9/15/2015 11:59 (#4790266 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Pull 1500 bu regularly behind 300 hp MFWD tractor all the time. 2 750's, Fully automatic hyd disc brakes. Don't send the 17 year old's to the elevator with it, but it handles really well, Brakes hold in reverse also if you were to get in trouble up a hill.

jedstivers

Posted 9/15/2015 15:13 (#4790441 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Marianna Arkansas

How do you keep a combine running with wagons and tractors? I'm really asking, not trying to be a smart azz.
In corn we have to roll hard to keep the combine moving.
300 bu every 5-7 min.

Buster 50

Posted 9/15/2015 15:46 (#4790463 - in reply to #4790441)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

North West IA/western AZ

Usually a 2 man show where the combine stops to dump and the distance to bins in is less than 3 miles.

Greywolf

Posted 9/15/2015 16:03 (#4790475 - in reply to #4790441)
Subject: Maybe someone that is on a smaller scale

Aberdeen MS

and I'm not trying to be a smart --- myself either.

Maybe they are only running a 6 row head.... travel about 1 or two miles from home and only have 2 people available.

A lot of you younger guys have to "scale down" a little bit.

There are a lot of farmers very content with only running 500 to 600 acres with a 3 crop rotation.

jedstivers

Posted 9/15/2015 17:44 (#4790569 - in reply to #4790475)
Subject: RE: Maybe someone that is on a smaller scale

Marianna Arkansas

Greywolf - 9/15/2015 15:03

and I'm not trying to be a smart --- myself either.

Maybe they are only running a 6 row head.... travel about 1 or two miles from home and only have 2 people available.

A lot of you younger guys have to "scale down" a little bit.

There are a lot of farmers very content with only running 500 to 600 acres with a 3 crop rotation.

Much as I wish i ain't real young anymore. Maybe it's a southern thing from harvesting cotton but we can't stand for a harvester to stop, Doesn't matter if it's a 2 row picker, 6 row bailer picker, 4400 or S690. Harvest time they got to roll. Might rain for a month straight.
The thing about the bins close is interesting though. Is there that much 3 phase power up there or do a lot run on single?

SMKX

Posted 9/15/2015 16:05 (#4790478 - in reply to #4790441)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

multiple bin sites close to nearly every farm

Have several fields that just set a wagon at auger and use cart to haul from combine to bin

Rest are within a few miles with the exception of a few isolated farms

AGB

Posted 9/15/2015 17:16 (#4790542 - in reply to #4790441)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Mid-Michigan

jedstivers - 9/15/2015 15:13

How do you keep a combine running with wagons and tractors? I'm really asking, not trying to be a smart azz.
In corn we have to roll hard to keep the combine moving.
300 bu every 5-7 min.

I don't. When everything gets full and no drivers are there I stop, get a drink and walk to a truck.Then I go to the bins or the elevator. When I get back I start combining again.

dgramenz

Posted 9/15/2015 17:43 (#4790568 - in reply to #4790542)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

SW Illinois

I would go nuts having a 12 row machine sitting still while I jump in a truck to go to the elevator.....

665 Farmer

Posted 9/15/2015 21:01 (#4790959 - in reply to #4790568)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

michigan

But when you get back, the truck fills fast.

JasonK

Posted 9/15/2015 20:40 (#4790894 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

East Central Iowa

I'd hold back and make the first run light and see how it goes. Nothing worse than spinning out going up a long hill. Most scary, helpless feeling ever. Be safe and good luck.

myron

Posted 9/15/2015 21:16 (#4791011 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Spring Grove MN

If your hills are paved, no problem full unless 8-9%. If it is loose gravel, 900 is going to be a heck of a pull on steeper slopes.

jdbob8100

Posted 9/15/2015 21:20 (#4791026 - in reply to #4791011)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Are those wagons bottom dump or side dump? No one up here in southeast ND or this area pull wagons.

cutchall5

Posted 9/15/2015 22:14 (#4791212 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Jonesville, Mi

We run two 550 bushel wagons. They have been around since I was a kid. We started hauling all of our own corn to town with them hooked together behind a 4440 p.s. 2wd and no duals because they wouldn't go on the scale. The two wagons loaded are around 76k ish. We have a gravel hill 1/2 mile from the farm that we would hook a 4020 onto the front of the 4440 and go to get up. Once past this it was all down hill on the gravel with only two other decent paved hills to the mill. On the paved hills we would be down in 5th gear to pull. We never hauled the pair with this tractor if the pavement was wet. Since them we upgraded to a 8100 2 wd and they widened the scale so we ran with duals for awhile until buying a truck. These wagons don't have brakes and you have to be careful or they try to push the back end of tractor around if your not careful. I will never pull a pair again if the road is icy, I had them behind the 8100 with duals headed up the gravel hill early spring years ago and there was a few ice patches. When I got to a icy spot the tractor broke traction and spun, then caught dirt and stalled, I slid back and lucky for me the back wagon jackknife and pinched the tires against the frame stopping me. I had the wife come with the 4440 and blocks. It still had the dozer blade on from plowing snow and I parked it against the back wagon, blocked the tires, unhooked and pulled one wagon over the hill and came back for the second. Lucky for everything involved nothing was hurt this day. Last year we moved 80k bushel of corn home and 90% of this was through these two wagons and the rest via the semi. I harvest and the wife hauls the wagons. If we're close she runs 1 wagon at a time and leaves one in the field normally. Her and I are the only ones running during the weekdays until 6 pm when dad gets home. He will drive the truck if needed or I will park and take it home if necessary. On the weekends my FIL runs the grain cart, dad and wife run two tractors with a tractor each and switch tractors on the road so dads at home dumping and watching dryers and the semi is used for overflow. We can run a 14 hour day and honestly the truck may get dumped once by dad and I drive it home when we quit. This is within 5 miles. If we get out further the wagons get hooked together and the truck is used more. This is with a 6 row head 150-225 bushel corn. We feel the wagons are more handy, easier to move around and get dumped plus they are very very cheap to maintain. I would load them light and try it and ike someone else said do not put someone in that tractor that shouldn't be hauling that kind of weight.

Franz

Posted 9/15/2015 22:27 (#4791255 - in reply to #4789675)
Subject: RE: How many bushels do you dare

Ohio

SMKX - 9/15/2015 01:01

Wanting to pull pair of 650 bushel wagons in tandem. Wagons have brakes all the way around. Tractor that will be pulling is 200HP MFWD and is weighted and dualled. I have some pretty decent hills. Do I dare load em up or hold back. Thinking of 800-900 and see how it goes. About a 10 mile run

I pull more with less but I'm also on flat ground.

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