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Faunsdale, AL | Worked on a 3020 diesel today for a friend. It's an early model 24 volt that's had the electrical system hacked on a little bit. Starter solenoid was burned up, so I sent the starter in to the local starter/generator shop and he put a new solenoid on it and tested it out. Everything A-OK. Since the guy was making the trip to town, I pulled the delco alternator off to have it checked while he was there.
This is still a 24 volt tractor and the Delco 10SI internally regulated alternator was installed as a "one wire" on a positive ground 24 V system. Shop guy's father likely put this thing on 30-40 years ago and installed a cross-over cable between the batteries under the floor plate to replace the two short ground cables that were originally on it. This results in a "normal" (for everyone but Deere) 24 volt system and the whole 12 V electrical system is dead. It has a set of Murphy gauges on it that are just to look at, no shutdown solenoid on the tractor.
So shop man says he thinks the Delco is working, apparently doesn't test a lot of 24 volt stuff lately???? Anyway when I started the tractor up, the alternator was not magnetized and I used a jumper from the output stud to flash it to the #1 regulator terminal. All I got was a big arc and no magnetized rotor/no output.
Anyone ever seen a Delco 10SI that was 24 volt? Positive ground? One wire? I've never seen anything other than 12V negative ground. I think the rectifier, regulator and diode trio would have to be changed to make one. Any source of one now-a-days? We've got a good starter, so until it quits, the tractor is likely to stay 24 volt even if he has to just charge the batteries at night. |
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ok | Been too long but isn't the starter the only thing that's 24volt. Lights gauges and generator all 12? I worked on several of these 20 years ago and had it somewhat figured out but it's been too long.. |
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nw pa | plenty of posts on this.. do a search and you will be up all night. Seems to me the batteries are connected on starting to 24 volt. charged at 12. lights 12 volt. |
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N Central IA | Delco 10 si should be a neg ground 12 volt alternator. The starter is the only thing that is 24 volt on these systems. I would ask the guy who looked at the starter if it is 12 or 24. If you have the cables connected in the same spot on starter solenoid it should be 12 volt. 24 volt starters had a cable to solenoid and one to the field windings of the starter if I rember correct. If you have an alternator and 12 volt batteries I would get a 12 volt starter if you dont already have one and complete the conversion .
Edited by tileplow 3/11/2014 20:34
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Faunsdale, AL | Nah............you guys have the JD system confused with the heavy truck system of 'series/parallel' where there is a solenoid that connects the batteries in series to start it on 24 and then when you release the starting switch, it falls back to a 12 volt system with the batteries in parallel for operating lights etc and charging the batteries.
That would be an option for one of these tractors......Never seen one done that way though.
I spent some time since I posted and found a new 24V NEG ground 1 wire alternator as well as several different 12 V conversion kits, so if the owner wants to do it, we can go either way with it.
Edited by ccjersey 3/11/2014 20:38
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Faunsdale, AL | I've been a bit dubious about the 12 volt conversion idea on these 3020's
We have an LP gas 3020 at home that is 12 volts and it cranks SLOW. It came with a single battery and it does help now that we have put a second battery on it in parallel with the first one, but it still cranks slow compared to this 24 volt model. I've never been around any other 3020's. Seems that there's just no room for a bigger starter in the space there, but maybe the LP model is even more restricted than the diesel. There's an updraft mixer/carb hanging down in the way of putting any longer starter in there on the LP version. I haven't compared the two starters or two tractors side by side. The LP version may be even shorter than the 24V diesel version. At any rate, even when it had a brand new JD starter, the LP cranks slow.
The 12 V conversion kits seem to be using a Bosch style direct drive starter. |
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Stearns County, Minnesota | ccjersey - 3/11/2014 19:51 I've been a bit dubious about the 12 volt conversion idea on these 3020's We have an LP gas 3020 at home that is 12 volts and it cranks SLOW. It came with a single battery and it does help now that we have put a second battery on it in parallel with the first one, but it still cranks slow compared to this 24 volt model. I've never been around any other 3020's. Seems that there's just no room for a bigger starter in the space there, but maybe the LP model is even more restricted than the diesel. There's an updraft mixer/carb hanging down in the way of putting any longer starter in there on the LP version. I haven't compared the two starters or two tractors side by side. The LP version may be even shorter than the 24V diesel version. At any rate, even when it had a brand new JD starter, the LP cranks slow. The 12 V conversion kits seem to be using a Bosch style direct drive starter. All John Deere 3010s, 3020s, 3020LPs, 4010s, 4020s and 4020LPs, gas,originally came from the factory with 12 volt starting systems and charging systems, using one 12 volt battery. From 1960-68, John Deere 3010s, 3020s, 4010s and 4020s, diesels, were 24 volt systems, both starting and charging. The lights on the 24 volt systems, were 12 volt lights, with the design, that 1/2 the lights were on one battery and the other half lights were on the other battery. Just so you are aware that the first ones listed above were all gas with 12 volt systems. All of the above tractors had generators on from the factory before 1969.
Edited by 99MAX 3/11/2014 21:55
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Fruita CO | The 24V tractors that had the factory A/C cab used a 24V Motorola alternator, but I don't think JD ever used a 24V Delco. That being said, I've seen a couple that were done like yours, with a Delco...Don't know where they came from, but they weren't common. don't really remember if they were pos or neg... The Motorola is still available from JD, but it's almost $500...early 5020's & some of the industrial stuff used it too. How did he wire the starter? it was originally 2-wire ungrounded.
(I hate dicked-up electrical systems...a guy here once had an electrical shop convert a 4020 to 12V, but he used the series-parallel switch system like trucks...what a cluster-****...half a mile of wire & cable.
Edited by ronm 3/11/2014 22:51
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Jefferson MA | Sorry, but you are not correct here. The 3020 diesels were 24V start and everything else 12 V as said in the post below. It's not clear to me how you could make a 10SI alternator work in this system without major changes from the original design. I suspect your tracthttp://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-post.asp?action=reply&replyto=3748196or has a been modified from original and no 'standard' advice will work. |
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SC Iowa | I would convert it to 12 volt. We put a gear reduction starter from a late model combine (9660) on a 3020, bolts right on, spins it fast. |
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Fruita CO | NO, no, no...You are the one that's not correct...they were 24V start AND CHARGE, split-load system. Half the accessories ran off one battery, half off the other. The generator was 24V. |
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Wallis, TX | I agree with Jim, there is NO WAY with the original system to make a Delco alternator work as the original system was an isolated ground generator, which the Delco is NOT. Someone did some different wiring on the tractor. |
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Stearns County, Minnesota | A schematic of the original design. 
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| twraska - 3/12/2014 09:56
I agree with Jim, there is NO WAY with the original system to make a Delco alternator work as the original system was an isolated ground generator, which the Delco is NOT. Someone did some different wiring on the tractor.
You can make the Delco alternator work. I have one on mine. The alternator has to be rebuilt to be an isolated ground alternator |
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Fruita CO | How did you dig that one up from 4-1/2 years ago? Jeez... |
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Faunsdale, AL | Just to put an ending to this story.....the tractor was converted to 12 volt negative ground using a Delco 10SI alternator and an import gear reduction starter. Less than $200 in parts including a couple battery cables. Owner still has the good 24 volt starter he can sell and probably get that back. Been a couple years and He's happy. |
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Going back about 40 years JD 24 volt system repairs....
