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K-Stater

Posted 1/14/2014 20:45 (#3604283)
Subject: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

The post about the hard starting 4430 reminded me of ours and it's starting issues. The 2 6 volt Jd batteries are shot (got a whole two years out of them) and we have decided to buy two twelve volt batteries and get some new cables made up. Can someone tell me the proper way to route the cables? Is it as simple as running both positives from the batteries to the starter positive, and running both negatives to the ground on right hand side of engine (by dipstick). Thanks. I think Jd has a kit for this but it's probably expensive, so we will probably have NAPA make the cables.

a4t-1600

Posted 1/14/2014 20:49 (#3604297 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Dearfield Co.

positive to positive on the batteries then off to the starter where the other positive was hooked.Ground can varie on location it seems.

1brunel

Posted 1/14/2014 20:51 (#3604304 - in reply to #3604297)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

w. wi.

Some say its hard on starters with 2 12 v battery's . I D K.

a4t-1600

Posted 1/14/2014 20:55 (#3604318 - in reply to #3604304)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Dearfield Co.

how would the atarter know as cca and voltage is all it knows-------------should actually be better if you dont use miniature 12 volt batteries

pbutler

Posted 1/15/2014 07:20 (#3605049 - in reply to #3604304)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Macon, IL

Been running that way for 7 or 8 years. Gotta be better than cranking cranking cranking.

Badger

Posted 1/14/2014 20:52 (#3604308 - in reply to #3604297)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Huntley Montana

Just take the grounds to the frame 2 spots don't hurt, & take both positives to the starter.
Makes a BIG differance

ccjersey

Posted 1/14/2014 21:39 (#3604478 - in reply to #3604297)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Faunsdale, AL

If you are going to buy new cables, buy stud terminal (Truck) group 31 batteries.

If you want to stay with post type batteries, you can reuse the short positive cable on left battery, purchase a ground cable for left battery (can use a starter mount bolt) ,reuse ground cable for right battery and reuse the cross over cable by cutting off the end that was connected to the left battery negative post and crimping or soldering a ring terminal on it. It will reach the starter solenoid just fine, but you will have to bend the end in a 90 to get it to fit right.

One good thing about going to stud type batteries is that you get new cables.

Edited by ccjersey 1/14/2014 21:41

nav698

Posted 1/14/2014 20:52 (#3604307 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: RE: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

SW MN

Do both positives to starter and you can ground each battery by its self

Buster 50

Posted 1/14/2014 20:53 (#3604310 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

North West IA/western AZ

I was going to do the same on my 4440. I put 1 12 volt battery in 2 years ago and never got around to the second. It starts very well with just the 1.

JFDairy

Posted 1/14/2014 21:02 (#3604343 - in reply to #3604310)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

middle TN

We have always put the 2-12 volts in. Last summer on my 4050 the batteries went south, I had one group 31 12 volt so I disconnected the right side cables and dropped in the single battery on the left. I meant to put in a couple of new batteries later on and never got around to it. It started perfectly last week every morning at what were cold temps for us, from 2-12 farenheit, without being plugged in. I will probably just be putting in one from now on. Jared in TN

Robert W Greif

Posted 1/15/2014 06:20 (#3604933 - in reply to #3604310)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Dallas Center IA 515-720-2463

Fully agree on using one 12 volt.

My 4630 has never started well since I purchased it in 2006. I know it should have had new batteries, but since I have a shed at both places, I just parked it close to a 110 outlet and used a charger.
After the morning start, it was Ok the rest of the day.

Purchased one of the gear reduction starters. Then replaced the two 6 volts with one 12 volt. I call the battery a 31, probably not the right name.

Both cables are new from Deere. Had to do some figuring for cables that fit because of the new starter had the post in a different place than the Deere starter.

Very happy with this setup. It starts!!

In my book using just one 12 volt and a gear reduction starter is a better deal than two 12 volts on the factory starter. And probably not a whole lot more money.
If you need the tractor to start a lot during the winter, two batteries would be OK.

At least try one 12 volt, if it does work for you put a second 12 volt in the right battery box.

For me the only winter starts are to push snow. I have warning, so get it plugged in.

Also that gear starter is many, Many, MANY times easier to put on than the factory starter.

The ground is bolted to the starter inside the red oval in the pic. Postive post is to the right.

Also I had to cut some metal off the side panel to get the boster clamp on the starter post. Not shown in the pic.

Edited by Robert W Greif 1/15/2014 07:06

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Josh in Pa

Posted 1/15/2014 06:45 (#3604981 - in reply to #3604933)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

s.e. Pa

I don't mean to hijack, but see that you post a lot about Olivers. I have 2 1655's. one with 2 group 31's, one with 2 6 v. And an 1855 with a single 31 and a bigger starter. The 18 with 1 battery cranks so much better than either 1655. A neighbor told me he thought the 1855 had a starter off of a JD 4450? Any idea how I can make the 16's crank like the 18? Single batterys would be nice too.
Josh

Robert W Greif

Posted 1/15/2014 07:15 (#3605038 - in reply to #3604981)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Dallas Center IA 515-720-2463

The only thing I can tell you.

If a Oliver with a Waukesha engine will take a Deere 4450 starter - I would have one of those $235- gear reduction girls in there.

Really hoping I do not need to put a starter in any of my Oliver, White or Allis-Chalmers tractors. Sure will be mad if I can't put a gear reduction one in.

If I had to do it over again on the Deere I would pay for a gear reduction starter and battery, before I would take free a factory Deere starter and batteries.

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Indianajones

Posted 1/14/2014 20:57 (#3604329 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: RE: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Both positive cables to the starter is the best. The rt cable can be rerouted behind the cylinder head and made too work fine unless you feel you need new cables anyway. If you reuse the positive, you only have to make a new ground cable for one side that way.
INDY

SteigerSt320

Posted 1/14/2014 20:59 (#3604331 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Northeast Louisiana

Have seen several 4430's here with just one 12 volt. Works fine. But not as cold here in the south.

daddycal

Posted 1/14/2014 21:04 (#3604349 - in reply to #3604331)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Montana

There is a new faster starter available and we have one on our 4850, it really starts a lot better with the speedy starter and two 12 volt Batteries. It is really important if you use two batteries to make sure you replace both and keep them even,. I have had amazing luck if I peel off the labels and pry out the little plugs and add water.

billy_bob126

Posted 1/14/2014 21:09 (#3604365 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Wabash, IN

You can get cables for a 4455. They finally figured out 2 6volts in series sucks compared to 2 12s parallel on the 55 series. Just did it to my bros last year. You get twice as many amps that way. It makes a difference

gavogel

Posted 1/14/2014 21:19 (#3604407 - in reply to #3604365)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Marion,ks

I use one group 31 truck battery in the left box, work great on my 3 4430 and 4250. Located in central KS. less than $100 I made up new cables.

Kelly

Posted 1/14/2014 21:26 (#3604434 - in reply to #3604407)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

NC KS

1 battery works fine on our 4430. A good group 31 battery. Smaller battery will work for a while but not as good as a 31. Don't need new cables, just ground the one to frame and use original positive to starter.

gavogel

Posted 1/14/2014 21:40 (#3604483 - in reply to #3604434)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Marion,ks

I went to the stud post battery that why I put new ends on cables.

Gerald J.

Posted 1/15/2014 02:07 (#3604838 - in reply to #3604365)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

If the 6 volt batteries have the same weight of lead and acid in each as the 12 volt batteries the two 6 volt batteries in series should have the same cranking amps as two 12 volt in parallel. Unfortunately the market for 6 volt batteries is very small and so few are made and probably are shorted on plates to cut the cranking amps, worse they are left to sit on the shelf for half a year or longer without charging and that wrecks them before they ever get used. Cranking amps comes from active plate area and with 3 cells in a given volume there can be more plates per cell and so more cranking amps but battery makers often don't fill the cells with plates.

The selection of 12 volt batteries is much greater as is the turnover on the store shelves.

Then if the two battery cables from battery to starter are the same size as the original single cable there is less loss in the battery cables to make for better cranking.

Its most important with batteries in parallel that they be identical and the same age. Its fairly important in the series connection too, but the differences affect the good battery a little less in the series connection.

Gerald J.

dakotadirt

Posted 1/14/2014 22:01 (#3604547 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

consider a gear reduction starter or at least a nippondenso direct drive while you're giving it a freshening. cables mount to starter just a tad different so now would be a good time to make it all come out nice. a pair of high cca group 31 stud type batteries can usually be bought cheaper than the top post so maybe go that route also as others have suggested. those old girls like all the cranking speed you can give em. doesn't cost much more than normal maintenance now either. do it up right once.

easymoney

Posted 1/15/2014 07:19 (#3605048 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

ecmn

2 6volt 800 amp batteries is 800 amps/12 volts at starter.
2-12 volt 800 amp batteries is 12volt/1600 amp at starter.

low voltage or amperage on 12 volt motors in high load situations is harder on them then to much voltage.

Gerald J.

Posted 1/15/2014 10:32 (#3605527 - in reply to #3605048)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

But for the same volume the 6 volt batteries should be 1600 cranking amps. If not they are cheap junk.

Gerald J.

Andrew_D

Posted 1/15/2014 08:09 (#3605167 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Newdale, Manitoba, Canada

We changed out JD4620 over from 2 x 6V to a single 12V and it worked great. It had the long skinny batteries, so we just made a battery holder and mounted it to the LH frame between the loader frame and the step. Right beside the starter which made for some nice short cable runs!

Andrew

gavogel

Posted 1/15/2014 08:45 (#3605274 - in reply to #3605167)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Marion,ks

I made that improvement to my 3020 after pricing 2 new batteries from JD. I liked elimanating those long cables under the platform. The 3020 starts better and the battery box serves as anoyher step styled like the 30 series tractors.

Gerald J.

Posted 1/15/2014 10:39 (#3605535 - in reply to #3605167)
Subject: Long skinny batteries

The long skinny batteries are part of the problem, they have long cell connecting bars inside and that reduces the cranking amps, plus they are expensive.

On my gas 4020 I made a new battery shelf, step, and ladder to use a side terminal battery so dirt landing on top doesn't cause leaking to run the battery down while it is sitting.

battery and steps

Gerald J.

dj dill

Posted 1/15/2014 08:53 (#3605291 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

lascassas, tn

truck batterys in everything here except 1150E dozer , it will get them when the time comes.

scott nelsen

Posted 1/15/2014 08:55 (#3605300 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Leeds, North Dakota

6 volt batterys are a pita, do what Bobby W Grief did, you will be a happy camper, Scott.

JD fanatic

Posted 1/15/2014 09:56 (#3605439 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

Positives to starter hot, negatives to ground. Really simple.

jwsrules

Posted 1/15/2014 12:43 (#3605772 - in reply to #3604283)
Subject: Re: Converting 4430 to two 12 volt batteries?

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