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JD643 gathering chains
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02Cummins
Posted 10/17/2013 10:02 (#3389064)
Subject: JD643 gathering chains


WNY
I was wondering if someone could explain to me how the tensioner works on the gathering chains. New to me JD643, poly, all new 150acres ago, chains, sprockets, everything was new, nice clean head. Problem I'm having, About 10 acres in, one chain jumps of top sprocket, jump off try to figure out how to get apart and get chain back on. Figure that out, same row does it a couple more times during the day. Adjusted it to the same as the other rows. My question is, how does that bolt with the spring and tube around it spin itself all the way down to the jam nut? Is that happening first or does that happen after the chain jumps? Yesterday I had multiple rows do it in a matter of minutes. Don't know if the stalks were a little damp or too tall but it was frustrating. Going to track down an owners manual and order it but in the meantime, any help for this 643 rookie would be appreciated, thanks!!
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pbutler
Posted 10/17/2013 10:26 (#3389094 - in reply to #3389064)
Subject: RE: JD643 gathering chains



Macon, IL
I've run a few thousand acres through 643 and never thrown a single chain-so I am guessing has to be some adjustment there or bearing on sprocket or gearbox?

I just tighten down and jam with the two nuts at the bottom-one on each size of sliding piece. Should be able to pull chain out an inch or two and have it pull back in tight. If more than that maybe need to remove chain link-but I have never done that even on really worn chains. Come to think of it that may not even be possible to remove link-unless did it from both sides.

Edited by pbutler 10/17/2013 10:27
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clicker
Posted 10/17/2013 10:48 (#3389127 - in reply to #3389064)
Subject: RE: JD643 gathering chains


Southern IA
your tensioners should flex in and out from the spring tension, last time I rebuilt I got aftermarket blocks which when torqued down did not allow the tensioner to float in and out, shimmed all the bolts with a washer under the block for each bolt, then torqued down the bolts. Worked perfect. if your tensioners are not floating with spring pressure I'd suspect you will have the problem you are seeing, or else you got a bearing out on one of the sprockets
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irethanolman
Posted 10/17/2013 10:54 (#3389135 - in reply to #3389127)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Serena Il, Center of the Universe
Good point Clicker. Also there should only be 1/8" of movement in the tube between the bolthead and the strap.
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NEILFarmer
Posted 10/17/2013 11:06 (#3389150 - in reply to #3389135)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Morris, IL
Book says 3/16" gap in the tube. Never hade one come off I don't think.
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Von WC Ohio
Posted 10/17/2013 11:23 (#3389174 - in reply to #3389064)
Subject: RE: JD643 gathering chains



You do not need to take the chain apart.

This is on a 693 but yours should be the same.

You might need to loop the chain around the top sprocket first and sometimes you need to remove the nut on the bottom sprocket and lift it off it's mounting bolt. Place the sprocket in the chain and then you can slide it back down on it's mounting bolt and tighten the nut up again.

The picture below is after the chains are on the sprockets but not yet tensioned.

Make sure your springs inside the tubes are not bound up with dirt and the springs are not broken. You push the bolt and compress the spring with hand tension enough to get the 1/2 jam nut started in position indicated by the red arrow. 

You hold the jam nut and tighten the bolt head which compresses the spring which extends the bolt through the hole in the  lower block. Once through the lower block you install a full nut (not shown in this picture) on the lower side where the purple arrow is.

You can then loosen the 1/2 jam nut and run it loosely down to the area of the blue arrow. Finish tightening up the bolt to the 3/16 gap between washer on bolt head and hollow spring tube. Then use 1/2 jam nut to lock everything in place.

When finished the full nut should be on the side of the purple arrow and the 1/2 nut should be where the blue arrow is. Both tight against the block one on each side. This jams the bolt to maintain the tension. 

It's a very good idea to use anti seize on these threads and nuts as over time they will seize up and are a bear to get off without cutting apart. 

Under spring tension you should be able to flex the chain to the side and it should tighten up when you release it. You should be able to see the lower strap the bottom sprocket is on sliding when you do this.

While the chain is off make sure your bottom sprocket turns freely and make sure your upper sprocket does not have any side to side slop in it. Were the top sprockets new along with the chains? If they were not replaced the teeth could be worn enough to have a hooked shape and are not releasing the new chain smoothly?

Also good idea to check the corn head grease level at the inspection plugs up top.

Be aware some of the older heads had cast plugs that can chip out while trying to remove. Best to replace them with new steel plugs. The zerks to fill the gearboxes are under the head. BE SURE TO USE YOUR SAFETY STOP on the feeder house before going underneath. Some shields may have been removed or drilled where you can access the zerks. My old 4 row you took off the tin shield to access the zerks. You need corn head grease up to just below the level of the inspection plug. There are springs in the gearbox that feed grease to those upper sprocket bushings. 

Hope this helps and let us know what you find out.





(Chain.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments Chain.JPG (69KB - 113 downloads)
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larryshoat
Posted 10/17/2013 14:24 (#3389371 - in reply to #3389064)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Southwestern Ohio

I'm betting you got a few broken springs.

Larry
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Maxx Catt
Posted 10/17/2013 14:50 (#3389404 - in reply to #3389064)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Great Lakes State
One thing to check if you take it apart is the flatness of the flat bar the nose sprocket and tensioner spring attach to.
If it is not flat excessive bowing will cause it to will hang up in the block.

When I rebuilt mine a couple were bowed and jammed so I flattened them out in the shop press.
It doesn't take much bowing especially if you install new blocks.

Edit to add:
It should look about like this when adjusted.



Edited by Maxx Catt 10/17/2013 17:04
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02Cummins
Posted 10/17/2013 21:40 (#3390262 - in reply to #3389404)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


WNY
Thanks everyone for the tips and especially the pics, esp. Von and Maxx, very helpful and detailed. I checked all the chains today and they were all out of adjustment. The gap was anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch at the spring. Adjusted all of them and made sure everything was moving, flexing like it should, all ok. I did not get to run it yet but the only question I have yet is how the tensioner bolt backs off? Meaning every time a chain came off, it would be off the top sproket, the tensioner bolt would have the spring and pipe spun all the way down to the jam nut. I've stared at it and just can't come up with how it does it. I guess I'm hoping it does that after the chain would jump off, just not sure how it spins itself. There are no wore out parts on the head. Everything was new, chains, sprockets, springs, bolts, deck plates, chain guides, and snapping rolls. When I bought it it had only seen 150 acres 2 years ago after being rebuilt, been sitting inside since the owner passed away. It's more than likely my inexperience but thank you again for all the help and suggestions. Ag Talk is like having a bunch of really good neighbors!! Will let you know when I run it next and how it works.
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Von WC Ohio
Posted 10/17/2013 22:11 (#3390402 - in reply to #3390262)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains



Once the chain tension is released by it coming off the top sprocket the strap with the lower sprocket is pushed downward as far as it will go by the spring tension. 

I hope Maxx Catt won't mind me grabbing and using his picture to illustrate since his is tensioned up and mine is not.

The strap that the red arrow is pointing to is not threaded it just has a hole the bolt passes through and the spring pushes that part down to create the chain tension.

So once the chain is off the top sprocket the spring tension pushes that strap down as far as possible which is why the spring and tube end up down to the jam nut. The chain coming off allows the area illustrated by the yellow arrow to go to almost nothing. 

The bolt should not be spinning down to the jam nut it's the spring tension pushing the strap down since the chain is no longer on and no longer limits how far it can go down.

Edit: That might sound sort of confusing. Think of it this way if you cut the chain with a cutting torch relieving all the tension in the chain that strap part being pointed to with the red arrow would slam down to the jam nut. Same thing happens when the tension is relieved by it coming off the top sprocket.





(Capture3.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments Capture3.JPG (72KB - 121 downloads)
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Maxx Catt
Posted 10/17/2013 22:23 (#3390442 - in reply to #3390262)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Great Lakes State
The tube serves 2 purposes.
It sets the correct pressure on the chain when the gap is correct.
It limits how much the front sprocket can move back to keep the chain from jumping off.
The tube has a specified length 9. some odd inches IIRC.
Also if the flat bar has been tweaked from flat it will change the alignment of the sprocket which will cause the chain to run over it at an angle and it won't line up correctly with the top sprocket.
You can eyeball it.

No problem on the pic Von.

Edited by Maxx Catt 10/17/2013 22:31
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dvswia
Posted 10/18/2013 06:27 (#3390770 - in reply to #3390262)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


sw corner ia.
"the only question I have yet is how the tensioner bolt backs off?"

they don't.. the chains stretch as they wear.
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02Cummins
Posted 10/18/2013 11:09 (#3391270 - in reply to #3390402)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


WNY
I see it now, thanks Von. In a hurry and not thinking it through. I knew all I needed was to "hear" it explained. Hope the adjustment is all it needed. Thanks again!!
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Maxx Catt
Posted 10/18/2013 12:31 (#3391386 - in reply to #3391270)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Great Lakes State
It does take a bit of thought to get it straight.
Took me a bit the first time I worked on mine.
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KMech
Posted 10/18/2013 18:02 (#3391708 - in reply to #3390770)
Subject: Re: JD643 gathering chains


Missouri
Exactly that.

Every year I tightened mine until I could the spring was entirely within the tube. If I could spin the tube by hand, it was not too tight. At the end of the season, there would be about 1/16" gap, and they would get tightened back up 1/16" for next season. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.


If your chain tension is set correctly, it should not be possible to throw the chain.
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