Posted 2/4/2008 19:44 (#301120) Subject: loader for JD7810FWA
Which Westendorf loader series would be best for this tractor? I would be using it to handle round bales and some material handling.The dealer recommends either the xta400 or cc360 loader. My JD dealer does not seem interested in selling to the smaller farmer with livestock.
Posted 2/4/2008 19:55 (#301126 - in reply to #301120) Subject: RE: loader for JD7810FWA
Not to tell you different but I would look around at finding a good used JD 741 or 740 loader for your tractor and you will be real happy. Your probably in need of it right away so good luck, I don't know where your located but try brousing through a High Plains Journal, might find one.
Posted 2/4/2008 20:24 (#301151 - in reply to #301120) Subject: Re: loader for JD7810FWA
Walnut Grove MN USA
When I was looking for a loader the Westendorf was a far better loader than a JD in my opinion and cheaper too. Only thing I didn't like was the bucket position indicator which they have changed long ago. My TA-29 comes off in less than a minute by flipping the latches and using the hydralics to remove it then unhooking the hoses. Can put it back on in less than two minutes. Even the JD techs were impressed when I slipped it off so they could work on the tractor.
Posted 2/4/2008 23:10 (#301318 - in reply to #301120) Subject: Get the WD.
Don't let anyone talk you into a Deere loader. You'll regret it each and every time you want to take off or put the loader on the tractor. Deere loaders should come with a slab of cement to park them on!
The whole Westendorf loader can be on and off the tractor in less time than it takes to use Deere's worthless "slow tach" bucket.
Westendorf also sells everything you could think about using with a loader.
We have a 6144 White FWA with a TA-46 on it, real nice loader but I think that the Custom Contour loaders look even better. They look "clean" with all of the hyd lines inside of the arms.
Edit: The "Hydra Snap" hyd coupler looks really nice and would save time, it takes me more time to sort and hook hoses up than to actually mount the loader on the tractor.
Posted 2/4/2008 23:29 (#301333 - in reply to #301318) Subject: Re: loader for JD7810FWA
Anyone with a white tractor and westendorf loader has never been in a John Deere 7810 with a 740 or 741 loader or he wouldnt own a white 6144 tractor with a westendorfer loader
John Deere loader=John Deere tractor Westedorf loader=any other tractor
John Deere loaders are hard to find for a reason but would be well worth the wait
Posted 2/4/2008 23:38 (#301336 - in reply to #301333) Subject: How about a 7410 w/740.
Does that satisfy you, I have quite a bit of experience in a couple of them. How bout you, have any experience with a White or a WD? I kinda doubt it, neither do most people who bash either of them.
The 7410 is a really nice tractor, the 740 is a really bad joke. Put a WD loader on the 7*00 tractor and you have a really nice combo.
Deere loaders aren't that hard to find, just read the classifieds.
The 6144 White is the same size tractor as a 7810. Bought it used for half the price of a 7810, its way more than half of a 7810! If the Deere could be bought for the same money we would probably have a Deere.
Any tractor = Westendorf loader.
Deere loader = inferior loader that costs more.
Posted 2/5/2008 11:11 (#301644 - in reply to #301601) Subject: RE: Hate is such a strong word.
I happen to have a Westendorf loader currently, it's ok but the Deere's look very good and they look to me to be an extremely durable, well built loader. I have seen a few Westendorf's that have not looked so good from the factory, poor welds, etc.
Call a spade a spade, just say you "dislike" Deere equipment and move on.
Posted 2/5/2008 11:11 (#301643 - in reply to #301629) Subject: RE: 158 & 168
Ross, you gotta lower your standards, man. Why do you think they put toolboxes on tractors? :)
I remember taking a WL 30 off with no tools 30 years ago. Have no way of timing it, but it was quick. Dad could not believe how fast I got at it. 30 years ago. As far as needing a hard surface, unless you have your front bracket mounted really high, a WD could sink in quite a ways before it's a problem. As long as the little tabs can clear the front roller tubes, you'll get it mounted. (Speaking from WL 42 experience). We have our mounts as high as we could, for max reach, but even then the loader would have to sink ~4" for it to be a problem. With the surface area of the front bar, I don't see that happening.
Posted 2/5/2008 11:33 (#301670 - in reply to #301616) Subject: Farmhand F258
We had a Farmhand 258 on a JD 4630 and it was a sweet loader on that tractor.
I do have a question though? Being around that Farmhand 258, who made the Farmhand 258 and the JD 158? Those 2 loaders were almost identical except Farmhand had a lot quicker mount. I figured that the Farmhand 258 and JD 158 were made in the same plant, only had different decals. The serial number plates were in the same place and hose brackets were all identical.
Who makes the Deere loaders now? I'm not poking fun, just curious.
Seems Deere has some other short line mfgr's build stuff for them some. At least back 25 years ago they did it some.
Posted 2/5/2008 08:27 (#301484 - in reply to #301120) Subject: RE: loader for JD7810FWA
Ste. Rose, MB
search the forum for 741 loaders since it has been discussed quite some already, there's lots of good info on them. with a 7810, a 741 loader would be the ideal mate. Contrary to what some chaps have been saying, since they dont have experience with the 741, it does come off in 1 minute, no b.s., i've timed myself, 1 minute on, 1 minute off, easiest thing ever. Cudos to Deere, a huge improvement over the 740, that is for sure. The self levelling is also a must... best things is to go & see & try a 741 loader, surely there is a neighbour or someone you know that would have a one. Out here in Cattle Country, there are no Westendorf's... a few Allied (Buhlers) and hardly any Quicke's... just not built strong enough for the kind of work that goes on in the corrals etc. I think the only reason that there are still people that love these other brands is because they have went from maybe a Farmhand loader to on of those brands mentioned & yep, that would be an improvement. But for a person to go from a 741 to a off brand loader, well, that would be a downgrade... I know I sure as heck would never even consider it... and I do log on 1100 hrs a year with a 741 on a 7220. Had a Allied loader before... pos... but no offense to anyone that does like there loader... hey whatever works & as long as it works! Good Luck
Posted 2/5/2008 10:49 (#301613 - in reply to #301513) Subject: Re: loader for JD7810FWA
If they didn't change the quick tach bucket design it doesn't even compare to a WD.
The mounting and dismounting probably is improved but it still isn't a WD. In the spring when the rain comes and the frost goes out the only thing solid is concrete. That is why a loader with stands should come with a concrete pad. I guess if you never need to take the loader off during that time of year it won't matter.
"Mounts- now cast iron and offer a MUCH better view than any aftermarket loader. Basically like they aren't there when the loader is off."
Much better view, Pleeease. WD has been taking pride in taking the WHOLE loader off for decades.
Sounds like you like your 741. I like our TA-46.
WD on a White is a good loader but not a payloader either.
Posted 2/5/2008 09:15 (#301530 - in reply to #301502) Subject: RE: 740 vs 741
Ste. Rose, MB
they have changed them quite some, I used to own a 740 for 10 years & have had a 741 for 4 years now. Have you ever looked at both to see what has been changed? Some people figure its just a number change from 0 to 1, sure isn't. They have put the two lift cylinders to the side of the loader masts instead of below like the 740. Beefed up the loader ie: larger frame, larger self-leveling system, stronger loader in general. They have also changed their mounting system, there are no needs for any tools, just 2 pins & 2 parking stands along with the multi-coupler that you can get for probably most loaders. The 741's bucket cylinders are designed differently as well, check them out to see what I mean. The bucket will tilt (dump) a lot further as well. I've taken off the loader probably 200 times easy, I've done it everyday in a row for a straight month, so I can do it blindfolded & as long as you place two 2X8's under the parking stands, it works just fine, of course I"ll do that on a dry surface or relitavely dry, if there's water on the ground I wouldnt expect anyone to try to take off any loader. Oh yeah one more thing they have on the 741 is the suspension system, I dont have it on ours since it wasnt available at the time but think it would be a huge asset, since it is suppose to really save the front ends. 1 more thing as well, so much easier to grease, they have put the grease zerks at the end of each pin, a lot more easier to service.
So here's a few things that they have changed, probably a few more things but after a few years with this loader, I don't really want to remember much abou the 740 lol. like I said, if ever there's a 740 & 741 on a dealership lot, check em out & then you'll see what I mean.
Posted 2/5/2008 10:32 (#301600 - in reply to #301530) Subject: Thank you.
There wasn't any need for tools with the 740's I was around either but you almost needed 2 people. One to play with the joystick and 1 to pull the pin while it was loose.
I guess I don't see the huge advantage to mounting the lift cyl beside the arm but it must be better because most loaders are going to that.
Self leveling doesn't concern me, have used 1 before and don't really see the need for it either. Sure it would be nice for some things but for some things it is a real pain and with the joysticks that are around today it really isn't hard to tilt and roll the bucket yourself.
The linkage to tilt and roll the bucket has been on WD loaders for years. I sure like it on our TA-46.
The time that the Deere loader sank on me was in the Spring. It rained and the frost went out. Our WD would not have been any problem. Probably would have been ok if I would have put 2x6's under the stands but then again for a new loader to need boards to take it off is kind of silly.
I sure would like to have the one piece hyd coupler and the susp. I believe both are available from WD now also. I have thought about getting the hyd coupler for the current loader, sorting through 6 hoses is kind of a pain.
Not sure about the grease zerks on the new WD. On ours they aren't in the end of the pins and I do agree that would be nice.
Did they change the quick tach bucket design at all? This was probably the single thing that I hated the most about the 740's.
Not saying that Deere doesn't build a good loader but to me it still isn't a WD.
Thanks again for explaining some differences, most Deere guys just say it's better.
Posted 2/5/2008 11:33 (#301672 - in reply to #301600) Subject: Ross, I Love JD green, gotta agree on the loader
I see so many people with a loader hanging on the front of 7000 series Deere tractors in the spring it's actually funny. They just take the bucket off. Local JD salesmen says they are benefiting from the extra weight. ?????? I still don't get that one? I didn't think 1760's planters were that heavy. To each his own.
Let's start a new board AGCO vs. JD could be moderated by Ross and Chad. Please I'm bored today someone convince me the 4720 sprayer is superior to the 874 Rogator. ;) Or how a Sunflower disc is far superior to a John Deere 637 disc. Just kidding please don't take it personally. Everyone gets excited and is passionate about their brand.
Posted 2/5/2008 11:42 (#301683 - in reply to #301672) Subject: RE: Ross, I Love JD green, gotta agree on the loader
Everyone has their likes and dislikes, that's what makes the world go round. It wouldn't be good if everyone liked the same thing. However there's a difference between that and "bashing" which some seem to enjoy.
Posted 2/5/2008 12:06 (#301706 - in reply to #301700) Subject: RE: Bashing
I never said Deere (or anyone else for that matter) makes the best of anything, I just try to keep an open mind. Your posts on Deere equipment are predictable.
Who said I was thinking of getting rid of my Westendorf? I have no plans for that at this point but if I did I would certainly give serious consideration to a Deere loader, from what I have seen and heard from others who own them.
Posted 2/5/2008 12:31 (#301723 - in reply to #301717) Subject: RE: Bashing
"I do keep an open mind, my thoughts on Deere loaders are from experience. Most people who say "Deere tractor=Deere loader" have no exp with a WD."
I saw a Westendorf loader (can't remember what model #) in a shop one time that they were trying to mount on an 8200 tractor and that loader was so screwed up they were actually having trouble getting it mounted.......things weren't straight, etc., some of the crappiest looking welds I've ever seen. I don't know what went on in that case but I thought Westendorf quality had gone out the window. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying they're all that way but by the same token, just because it's a Westendorf don't make it perfect.
Posted 2/5/2008 12:41 (#301728 - in reply to #301723) Subject: Was it new?
If it was new they should have sent it back. No excuse for putting out a poor quality of workmanship no matter what company. Everyone has lemons once in a while, but they should be dealt with properly.
If it was used maybe it was abused and not fixed properly. Think of fixing a loader like fixing a bent up piece of tubing, you have to pull it past straight to get it to stay straight. If it just gets pushed together and welded it will pull everything else out of square.
I believe WD has the superior design, but like you say if it isn't welded good it just isn't good.
Posted 2/5/2008 18:39 (#301970 - in reply to #301734) Subject: RE: No hissy fit here.
We are on the same page with planters, but not on loaders!! lol
I loaded about 50 semis on chicken litter with a ta-46 last spring, so I consider myself a expert. It did the job, but I got to think there are better loaders out there. It was not mine, I am not looking for a tractor loader, if the payloader would have had bar tires, i would have not even got in the tractor loader. But maybe it is the best one, might have to compare at the farm shows this summer for fun!! lol
Posted 2/5/2008 13:24 (#301764 - in reply to #301600) Subject: RE: Thank you.
Ste. Rose, MB
I think if you can get the multi-coupler retro fitted for your WD loader, I would strongly recommend it. Might be a little spendy but if you like to take your loader on & off often, it is almost a must once you have had it. I also wish I had suspension on mine. Deere didn't change much for the quick attach bucket system, that's about the only crappy part about the loader I guess, I mean it works, but it could be better. At least now it seems like there is never any back pressure with the two hydraulic lines for the grapple fork, on the 740 we would usually always have to break a line to relieve the pressure from the lines. 741, I just follow the instructions from the book & I've never had any trouble re-coupling the grapple. For the lift cylinders to the side, it's bette for visibility & must be better for strength because this loader would definately outlift the old 740, so I have no complaints about that. We needed a ratchet for our 740 loader to undo 2 bolts at the wedge for the mounting brackets, but it was a 94 model so maybe they changed it after?
I guess whatever works the best for each individual person is the best way of looking at things. Would kinda be boring if we all had the same machines & all liked the same woman! lol
Posted 2/5/2008 10:03 (#301571 - in reply to #301120) Subject: RE: loader for JD7810FWA
Have an XTA400 on a 7800 for 5 years. I have been very happy with that loader on the 7800. Quick on and quick off. Can be used and abused. With the exception of a couple of broken hoses, I have had zero problems with it.
Posted 2/5/2008 16:57 (#301902 - in reply to #301120) Subject: RE: loader for JD7810FWA
I am surprises no one mentioned the Miller loader. to me it looks like the strongest loader on the market. I see it on all brands of tractors. even the die hard deere guys. I never had one, but if I had to buy a new loader today that is what i would get. I don't think it comes off and on as fast as the WD but a lot stronger up front I think. It is also greaseless. Which quite honestly most loader that run in manure are after a little while, only this one is designed greaseless LOL.
I used to run WD great for on and off, but we would break a lot of pins, and I wasn't impressed with the QT for the bucket, but it hardly got used so that didn't help. I had a couple great bend loaders. I think their bucket QT is the best and fastest around. I don't think you could find a more miserable thing to take off and on though, and we break hinge points once in a while.
Posted 2/5/2008 21:51 (#302144 - in reply to #301120) Subject: Re: loader for JD7810FWA
Kooiker - 2/5/2008 10:32
I guess I don't see the huge advantage to mounting the lift cyl beside the arm but it must be better because most loaders are going to that.
The one main (but maybe insignificant) advantage I see with the cylinder mounted outside is visibility- the cylinder is virtually out of sight of the operator on the 741. Never have really cared for self leveling either, maybe just never ran one enough to learn to like it.
Posted 2/6/2008 19:01 (#302950 - in reply to #301120) Subject: RE: loader for JD7810FWA
I just sold an XTA 400 to a guy with a 7800 front wheel assist and he loves it. He has a good sized bobcat and bought the loader so he could go between farms to clean out a hoop building. Now his Bobcat is sitting in the shed and he's using the loader for more things than he ever thought he would. I got the Westendorf dealership for brackets and such but I've found I'm selling loaders and attachments just by reputation of the loader. The XTA will fit more tractors than and have better resale than a custom contour.