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Combine auto steer
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KMG
Posted 8/5/2022 08:30 (#9781486)
Subject: Combine auto steer


Central MN
So setting up auto steer in the combine, ag leader.

Is it possible to do a 39' guidance path and the yeild monitor still be set at 40 feet? Or what's the correct way to set this up. Obviously not following rows, just the platform header

Thanks!

Ohhh everything is ran off the same monitor, integra, I would assume with 2 monitors it would be very easy to do what I'm asking. Not sure if it's all on one
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cyclones30
Posted 8/5/2022 12:50 (#9781841 - in reply to #9781486)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



Midwest

Should be possible, the equipment measurements are in a different place than the guidance line track spacing. 

But why map a different width than what it'll actually be doing? If you're only cutting 39 then map 39. Mapping for 40 would include false overlap and slightly lower incorrect yields. 

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caseihfarmer
Posted 8/5/2022 12:59 (#9781856 - in reply to #9781486)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


East Central, Nebraska
yes your equipment width is in your equipment/header configuration, that will never change. when you go into set your guidance line you will set the equipment width to the desired width (39 feet). keep in mind, though it isnt a big deal especially at that width, that your yield and acres will technically be off if your only taking 39 of 40 foot. should be off 2.5% which is not a big deal, where that becomes important is when a person has a 20 foot header they are setting at 19, then we are talking more like 5%.

couple years ago i tried to set the header width and guidance width at 29 foot of my 30 foot header to get truest accuracy yield data. where that blows up in your face is first off it will leave a strip on the map for the extra foot but even worse then i went to 30 inch rows it was then false the other way. this is a small unimportant factor but when you sit down and think of all the things that factor in to a yield monitor not being true it becomes kind of frustrating.

to further muddy the waters of this topic, your not technically cutting 39 of 40 foot, guidance works center to center so at some times you would be taking half of that foot on the side of the header that is in the beans out the outside would only be at 6 inches, with that said when you break through you would be taking a true 40 foot.

i took that way further than i needed to. yes what you want to do will work. i don't totally agree with the first reply that you put in 39 and guidance at 39 as it will be off the same amount as 40.

Edited by caseihfarmer 8/5/2022 13:04
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cyclones30
Posted 8/5/2022 17:06 (#9782093 - in reply to #9781856)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



Midwest

I'm just saying if one has RTK or some other accurate signal you match them ideally. If that's 40 or 39 or 20 or whatever. 

Yield is calculated using distance traveled, swath width, grain flow, etc. If swath width is incorrect....yield is. If you exaggerate the numbers a bit to make it easy to see....say you had 45' in as your "mapping" or head width but you were actually steering on 40' spacing. Your map will show overlap with the neighboring passes and you will have falsely low yields since it's saying x amount of grain accounted for 45' wide area instead of 40. 

On the other hand...you can falsely inflate yields by having too narrow of a head measurement in. 

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Indrtfmr
Posted 8/5/2022 19:35 (#9782309 - in reply to #9782093)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


NW in.
You can adjust for that by calibrating your yield monitor for the difference.
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cyclones30
Posted 8/5/2022 21:08 (#9782477 - in reply to #9782309)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



Midwest

Why not get more efficiency instead of re-calibrate for being inefficient? 

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Indrtfmr
Posted 8/6/2022 06:44 (#9782778 - in reply to #9782477)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


NW in.
What do you mean more efficiently, if the beans are leaning some you can't cut the full width so then if you want perfection in your monitor you have to recalibrate a little. Personally I don't worry about it, you can post calibrate after you weigh them at the elevator.


Edited by Indrtfmr 8/6/2022 06:45
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tedbear
Posted 8/6/2022 07:00 (#9782798 - in reply to #9781486)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
I read the above post and replies with interest as I'm going into a similar situation. This only pertains to soybeans as there should be no confusion for corn.

Our soybeans are planted in rows with a 24-30" planter. The soybean head is 35' which is exactly 14-30" rows. Last year, I followed the rows and steered manually. I took exactly 14 rows in the main part of the field.

We make 2 planter passes on each headland for a total of 48 rows. My first pass with the combine of necessity would harvest 14 rows. I would then make 3 smaller passes so as to harvest the headland rows and a few feet of the main rows. This allowed the head to "find it's height" before reaching the standing crop when doing the main part of the field.

This year I am adding Ag Leader's Steady Steer (assisted steering not hydraulic auto steer) to the combine. My goal is to be able to harvest our rectangular soybean fields at a slight angle to the rows. I have several neighbors who do this and it appears that they do a better job of cutting than I do. The beans were planted with auto steer and TerraStar correction on generally flat land. The combine will use the same TerraStar corrected GPS but with assisted steering rather than auto steer. I'm hoping that setting the guidance for 1' less would be workable. If I'm passing over a "guess row" on a hill that has a wider gap, the 1' grace may not be enough. Time will tell.

After harvesting the headlands, I thinking for my initial pass that I will pick some spot and enter in an A+ heading and let the steering take me across on the initial pass. I could then work my way out from that initial pass or make new "strike through" passes as desired.

I realize that having the combine set for 35' and the guidance at 34' will result in exaggeration of the total acres but I'm not overly concerned about that. The field size is confirmed by other operations. We run the entire crop through the grain cart with its own scale and record every load.

Any other tips or suggestion are welcome.

Edited by tedbear 8/6/2022 10:39
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terralex
Posted 8/6/2022 09:21 (#9783002 - in reply to #9782778)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


This is my exact thought.  I run a 40ft draper and have always set my swath to be 39.5ft (I use RTK).  If I go to a 40ft swath, there is always a chance of a little strip depending on which way the wind is blowing.

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Kooiker
Posted 8/6/2022 10:09 (#9783067 - in reply to #9782798)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



I'm not sure about Agleader but in our Pro 600 there is an auto head width feature that uses the coverage map to determine how much of the head is running empty whether you're taking a partial pass or working on point rows.    You tell it what the maximum head working width is and then it determines when you're not using the entire width.


Its probably not 100% accurate since were running on WAAS but the harvested acres usually match the planted acres (planted with individual row clutches) pretty close.



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tedbear
Posted 8/6/2022 10:29 (#9783086 - in reply to #9783067)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
The Ag Leader auto swath function as commonly used with sprayers and planters to shut off sections works in harvest mode to "cut back the actual swath width". They even have a setting for the "quality" of GPS that you are using. You enter the category of the quality of your GPS and the algorithm for reducing the swath width changes. With WAAS my corn head size drops down in 2 row increments. They also have a delay built in so the effective width does not change right away since the combine is still processing the previous swath width for a bit.

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Kooiker
Posted 8/6/2022 10:34 (#9783096 - in reply to #9783086)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



tedbear - 8/6/2022 10:29 The Ag Leader auto swath function as commonly used with sprayers and planters to shut off sections works in harvest mode to "cut back the actual swath width". They even have a setting for the "quality" of GPS that you are using. You enter the category of the quality of your GPS and the algorithm for reducing the swath width changes. With WAAS my corn head size drops down in 2 row increments. They also have a delay built in so the effective width does not change right away since the combine is still processing the previous swath width for a bit.



So relating to the OP's question it should work fine to set his guidance lines 39' apart and let the auto swath function determine that he's only using 39' of a 40' head, correct?



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tedbear
Posted 8/6/2022 14:34 (#9783387 - in reply to #9783096)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
Yes, I would say so. Auto swath will likely NOT change the swath width from 40' to 39' since the change is so minor. Technically the yield would be off slightly. The acres will be accumulating a bit faster than they should, the volume would not be affected so the indicated Yield/acre would be slightly reduced. This should be relative for the entire field so variations within the field will still be relative. The total acres for a field will likely be a bit high anyway and this can be adjusted after the fact.

I guess for my situation I could set my head as 34' and guidance would then default to 34'. When I doing the headlands, the first pass would actually be 35' with some partial passes to clean up the remaining rows and a bit of the main part of the field.

Concerning the main part of the field: It would be slightly incorrect with a head width of 34' because the strike through passes will really be 35'. It would be slightly incorrect with a head width of 35' for the return passes. It really won't matter anyway as the error from field to field should be reasonably similar as far as making a yield/variety comparison.

Edited by tedbear 8/6/2022 14:47
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KMG
Posted 8/6/2022 19:24 (#9783758 - in reply to #9781486)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Central MN
My whole thought is that if the auto steer consistently keeps 39 feet in the beans 99% of the time that's a hell of a lot closer then what I can steer myself. So this more accurate. Also 40ft is 16 30" rows even if I don't combine at an angle I never take 16. I do a lot of custom work for people who plant with markers.

Need to buy that 41' FD2 haha that's genius in my opinion. Set header width to 40' and I'd always be able to take 16 etc.. the extra foot doesn't mesh exactly with any row spacing
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Kooiker
Posted 8/6/2022 20:34 (#9783842 - in reply to #9783758)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



KMG - 8/6/2022 19:24 My whole thought is that if the auto steer consistently keeps 39 feet in the beans 99% of the time that's a hell of a lot closer then what I can steer myself. So this more accurate. Also 40ft is 16 30" rows even if I don't combine at an angle I never take 16. I do a lot of custom work for people who plant with markers.



If the planter driver is worth a crap 16 rows in a 40' head shouldn't be a problem.

Row 1 to row 16 (if they're perfectly spaced) is only 37.5'.


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Bhrfarms
Posted 8/6/2022 21:29 (#9783940 - in reply to #9781486)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Northeast Indiana
Wouldn't it automatically compensate for the extra foot that isn't taking any beans? On our yield monitor we set it up to have 1ft sections. When your track spacing is less than your header width the monitor knows that the extra foot on the outside has already been harvested and doesn't count that foot that isn't taking in any beans.
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sand85
Posted 8/6/2022 21:37 (#9783959 - in reply to #9783758)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


C IL

We have Precision YieldSense and RTK.  It does the swath control for you.  I set up two different platform head settings - 1 for rowed beans with 30” wide sections to drive with the rows, and another one for narrow row beans or angled beans with as many sections as the monitor allows, so we end up with maybe 9” sections or so.  I usually set the cut width narrower than the head by 2’ so any leaning beans don’t lay on the divider.

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tedbear
Posted 8/7/2022 07:02 (#9784241 - in reply to #9783940)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I tried cutting rowed beans at an angle manually in the past but found I don't drive very straight. With the 35' head, my unloading auger will reach the grain cart but would be quite close if the cart driver tried to center on the auger. This really hasn't been much of a problem as our cart size is such that we need to unload once per round. The result is that the cart is not full but wouldn't hold another dump so the cart operator unloads in the truck each time. This means the cart starts out empty each time and does not need to be centered on the unloading auger which provides a bit more cushion between the cart and the combine.

My hope with the assisted steering is that the combine passes will be straight. The cart tractor does have auto steer (WAAS correction) and I'm hopeful that the cart driver might use auto steer while unloading on the go. Since both the combine and cart tractor use Ag Leader components setting an A+ line on the combine and an A+ line with the same heading on the cart tractor should result in parallel passes. It might be necessary to nudge to get the desired gap but should be OK after that. The combine will be using TeraStar and the cart will just be WAAS for correction.

Maybe it will be just be easier to eyeball the distance and steer the cart tractor manually. I realize Ag Leader has Cart Ace for such situations but I don't really want to get involved with the unlocks, internet connections etc.

Edited by tedbear 8/7/2022 09:05
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Mbmaring
Posted 8/7/2022 07:32 (#9784280 - in reply to #9782798)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer



North west MN
We have run 2 insight monitors hooked to autopilot for many years. We have our 35 foot heads programed into the monitor as 35 foot heads. When harvesting beans we reload the planting lines and the insight allows you to change the swath width when loading the line so we set it to 34.833 that takes 19 22 inch rows. We use rtk for planting and harvesting so everything lines up and the combines both use the same line so we can run one behind another and they take the exact same swaths with no shifting. When we cut wheat we narrow up the swath width sometimes to 34.5 as wheat will lodge and lay over and you could leave skips. I don't think it affects the yield maps much changing the swath width 3 to 6 inches and I really like the ability the insight gives you to change the swath width without having to go into setup.
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KMG
Posted 8/7/2022 11:30 (#9784705 - in reply to #9783842)
Subject: RE: Combine auto steer


Central MN
Your be surprised pair that with living in the land of 11 sided fields I rarely take 16. As someone else mentioned too not to often are they standing up straight. But again typically I cut at an angle and might be taking 38' a lot.
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