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Columbia City, Indiana | I go to church with a guy who is very vocal about his opinion that the organic/non-GMO side of things is better, etc. He just sent me an article on Facebook from a site called the healthy economist claiming that people's problems with gluten, etc is caused by farmers spraying wheat with roundup 7 to 10 days before harvest to speed up harvest. I told him I've never heard of this practice, but since we don't live in a major wheat producing area I would post this question here and let him know of the responses I get. So is this practice common? |
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red river valley se of fargo | It's a fairly common practice here in the red river valley. I don't think that it has anything to do with gluten allergies, furthermore I think gluten allergies for the most part are complete hogwash. Obviously there are people who are allergic to things but hypochondria is the new cool fad in this country, and the drug and health food industry is encouraging it. |
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Princeton, Indiana | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Qp0WX8h00 |
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Northcentral Kansas | Not a common practice in my area of Kansas. |
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Southeast Nebraska | We had to spray a field this year that the grass and some other weeds were starting to take over. Not a common practice, but there have been a few cases around here in southeast nebraska. |
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SC Kansas | We sprayed this year for the first time ever on about 20 of our 600 acres because of pigweeds. Not a common practice anywhere except in extreme situations and up north where the wheat doesn't dry down. |
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Roanoke, IN | It replaces swathing. Much faster & cheaper. Glypho really has nothing to do gluten. It has to do with glypho's chelating ability, tieing up nutrients, and how that interferes with digestion. Most people assume a wheat allergy is a gluten allergy. Not so. So many places to point the finger and nobody wants to take the blame.
Edited by Orfarmer 11/14/2014 14:19
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NWND | Very very common here in nd. Some years probably 50%of it is done that way |
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cavalier county | I would say along the norther tier of counties and into Canada its way over half and easily 90% with a late harvest. Once you get past August wheat straw is very slow to turn, but i seriously doubt that it contributes to gluten allergies. At the time of spraying the kernel is still pretty tight in the hull. |
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Sumner County Kansas "The Wheat Capital" | we get word of this article
I am not sure how to respond to such misinformation. So she throws out all scientific studies that don’t support her idea and all farmers are just lazy and cheap when we use glyphosate. Personally I have never used glyphosate as a harvest aid on wheat and it is not a common practice in my area. Some glyphosate was used in my area this last harvest because of a delayed harvest due to rain and the weeds were taking over some fields. There were a few fields of wheat that did not get harvested because of the weed pressure and poor yields. Chemicals aren’t cheap and the use of any chemical on any crop comes with a great deal of research and cost analysis. We don’t make these applications just because we have a sprayer in the shed. |
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| It's done here all the time. The thing that has me worried about this practice is, you can't use wheat that was sprayed with Roundup preharvest for seed because it destroys the germination. Now if it's killing the germ, that tells me it's changing something in the kernel, and I'm not sure I want to eat that. I'm not anti GMO, but this is one practice that I don't approve of. |
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NC Kansas | I shouldn't say never but it's definitley not a common practice in this part of Kansas. It's usually not needed as harvest aid. As some have mentioned, if wet weather keeps a guy out of the field and the wheat is thin then weeds can start to take over and some will use it to keep the weeds down so they are able to harvest. But that's maybe 1 out of 10 years and maybe 1 out of 5 fields in that year.
+10000 on the gluten allergy "epidemic". I think it's mostly garbage. |
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Manitoba | Who says it kills the germ? I have used sprayed wheat for seed with no problems at all. Certainly a seed dealer wouldn't do it but it rarely hurts the germ. I have a good friend up north who sprays his malt barley every year so he can straight cut it and almost always gets malt. |
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nw mb | thats the reason malters wont buy barley thats been desiccated because the roundup does something with the germ which is important when malting. |
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North Central MN | Been spraying our seed wheat for years with preharvest roundup and have it all germ tested. Have yet to see any negative results. |
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Central ND | 50% or more |
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Cen Ks | I sprayed all of my barley and oats this year pre-harvest. The germination on both look very good. A lot of acres of wheat in our area got sprayed pre-harvest, which is not usual, because of excessive weed pressure and excessive rain at wheat harvest. No other options existed, other than swathing and we are not set up for that. I never heard any comments in my part of the state affecting the germ. I am quite sure that there were many certified seed growers in this part of the state that sprayed every acre of seed production, as a mean of saving seed quality. |
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North Central MN | What did you use on the oats for preharvest? |
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north west arkansas | Same deal here. Somebody posted it on facebook and I have sure never heard of putting roundup on wheat. |
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red river valley se of fargo | Sheep Herder - 11/14/2014 12:56
It's done here all the time. The thing that has me worried about this practice is, you can't use wheat that was sprayed with Roundup preharvest for seed because it destroys the germination. Now if it's killing the germ, that tells me it's changing something in the kernel, and I'm not sure I want to eat that. I'm not anti GMO, but this is one practice that I don't approve of. [/QUOTE
I've never heard of any issues with the germ on desiccated wheat as long as it was physiologically mature when sprayed. |
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NE Saskatchewan | We've been spraying wheat with preharvest glyphosate since the late 80's. When done at proper staging, the germ is rarely affected. Cereal crops take forever to dry down in the north. |
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West KY, Miss River County | I believe there are actually 3 different problems with an assumption they are all caused by the same thing. There are actually problems in the world that aren't the fault of Monsanto. 1. Gluten sensitivity is a specific problem and defined as celiac disease. Very real and apparently there are more people with this problem than originally recognized. Appears to have a lot to do with ones heritage and where in the world your family came from. However that is not the only defining factor. "Celiac disease is an autoimmune disorder that can occur in genetically predisposed people where the ingestion of gluten leads to damage in the small intestine. It is estimated to affect 1 in 100 people worldwide. Two and one-half million Americans are undiagnosed and are at risk for long-term health complications." http://celiac.org/celiac-disease/what-is-celiac-disease/ 2. Using Roundup as a descant/crop dry down, is off label, as it states it will damage germ. I had a customer that said his wheat had been sprayed with Roundup a week before harvest and it really looked good. We asked him to have it germed before spending money having it cleaned. He was surprised as he had a 50% germ. needless he dumped that wheat and got some from elsewhere that hadn't had Roundup used on it. Gramoxone is the recommended agent for spraying wheat as a desiccation/harvest aid, and it is on label. p5 http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld77A041.pdf 3. Problems associated with consumption of grains like wheat. Until rather recently I found this really difficult to accept. However, there appears to be health problems associated with grain consumption beyond those defined as by celiac disease. A #1 New York Times bestseller--the devastating truth about the effects of wheat, sugar, and carbs on the brain, with a 4-week plan to achieve optimum health. Renowned neurologist David Perlmutter, MD, blows the lid off a topic that's been buried in medical literature for far too long: carbs are destroying your brain. And not just unhealthy carbs, but even healthyones like whole grains can cause dementia, ADHD, anxiety, chronic headaches, depression, and much more. http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar-Your-Killers/dp/031623480X Research done at Duke University shows effects and determent of a grain based diet and Dr. Westman shares the features of a diet low in grain and carbohydrates . This is a lengthy presentation, an hour +/-. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSLf4bzAyOM Have fun
Edited by Ranchhand 11/14/2014 21:34
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North Central MN | What makes you think using glyphosate as a preharvest aid is off label? |
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Central ND | R up Looking to paste a label her that addresses pre harvest uses.
Finally gave up trying to paste a label for R up. maybe someone else can get it accomplished. for some reason I cant make it work tonight.
Edited by School Of Hard Knock 11/15/2014 00:14
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| http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with...
http://gmoanswers.com/studies/steve-savage-addresses-samsel-and-sen...
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/12/05/jeffery-smiths-cla...
http://academicsreview.org/2014/04/debunking-pseudo-science-lab-tes... |
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Central ND | wont let me paste the label.
Edited by School Of Hard Knock 11/14/2014 22:54
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Cen Ks | The field seeded to oat this spring had a 6 way cover crop summer/ fall of 2013. Some of the cover crop went to long til frost and produced viable seed which I did not catch till oats were up and growing. If we would have had a normal June weather I could have harvested without a preharvest spray; I binned every bushel I harvested and wanted oats as clean possible. I had a custom sprayer spray it. I won't post the application rate here but it was "substantial". The oats were a dream to harvest;perfectly clean in the field and almost 0% FM in the sample. I won't hesitate to do it again;if it works this good why not?? We used some of these oats for late summer/ fall seeded pasture. They didn't seem to have any germ issues and grew great. |
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WC MN | Roundup PowerMax is labeled for pre-harvest wheat ond feed barley on page 7 of the label. |
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| Ranchhand - 11/14/2014 21:29
Gramoxone is the recommended agent for spraying wheat as a desiccation/harvest aid, and it is on label.>
Could somebody verify that, I know some use it, but my research last spring was definitely to the contrary. Specifically, on label for what rate/phi? |
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| Gramoxone, also known generically as Paraquat, has never been labeled for that use. In 2001, about a million bushels of the Kansas wheat harvest was embargoed by Kansas Department of Health and Environment after several farmer/applicators sprayed their weedy wheat fields with the herbicide, and the grain made it's way to the local elevators. I don't recall the final destination of that contaminated wheat but I'm thinking it got sold as animal feed. In an age when herbicide residues can be detected in the parts per trillion range, off label use of herbicides can prove to be a costly adventure.
Edited by idea1947 11/15/2014 07:42
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| Spraying glyphosate pre-harvest, one always runs the risk of affecting the germ and it is not a recommended practice in seed production fields. As the main period of embryo growth occurs late post-anthesis, an early shutdown of that process can have detrimental affects. That said, I don't know why eating aborted germ would translate into a health risk, and the germ is removed in processed flour btw. |
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North Central MN | clayball farms - 11/14/2014 22:50
I won't hesitate to do it again;if it works this good why not??
Maybe because its not labeled? |
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Nwmo | Copied from powermax label.
Preharvest (Feed Barley and Wheat Only)
USE INSTRUCTIONS: This product provides weed control when applied prior to harvest of feed barley or wheat. For feed barley, apply after the hard-dough stage when grain moisture is 20 percent or less. For wheat, apply after the hard-dough stage when grain moisture is 30 percent or less. Stubble may be grazed immediately after harvest.
Apply this product in 10 to 20 gallons of water per acre when using ground application equipment and in 3 to 10 gallons of water per acre when using aerial application equipment.
RESTRICTIONS: Do not apply more than 22 fluid ounces of this product per acre for preharvest application. Allow a minimum of 7 days between application and harvest or grazing
Not that it matters to the Facebook army if it's in label, clearly monsanto would put anything in the label to sell more product. |
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NC Oklahoma | I think you better read the label you post before giving off label recs. as stated before there has been while elevator quarantined because of this practice. |
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Sumner County Kansas "The Wheat Capital" | Great reply Aaron! thanks. |
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Northeast ND | Are you using this seed on your own farm, or selling it? I believe it is illegal to use preharvest roundup on certified seed, at least in ND, and they take it very seriously. We raise a fair amount of certified seed, and I have never done it. |
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North Central MN | Yes, it is our own. |
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EC Nebraska | Ranchhand - 11/14/2014 21:29 3. Problems associated with consumption of grains like wheat. A #1 New York Times bestseller--the devastating truth about the effects of wheat, sugar, and carbs on the brain, with a 4-week plan to achieve optimum health. Renowned neurologist David Perlmutter, MD, blows the lid off a topic that's been buried in medical literature for far too long: carbs are destroying your brain. And not just unhealthy carbs, but even healthy ones like whole grains can cause dementia, ADHD, anxiety, chronic headaches, depression, and much more. http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar-Your-Killers/dp/031623480X Have fun
Perlmutter makes those claims, but he provides no evidence to back them up. He cites many studies and uses them to prove points that are only loosely related to the study, if they even relate at all. Examples: He cites studies that indicate blood sugar spikes (like you get from chugging a can of soda on an empty stomach) are bad for your brain. He then claims that those studies show that whole grains do the same thing, which is absolutely false.
He cites studies showing obesity and sedentary lifestyles are bad for you, and claims that whole wheat causes obesity and a sedentary lifestyle. But with no evidence to back that up.
In short, that book is a collection of massive leaps of logic with no evidence for his main premise, that modern wheat is causing that whole list of problems.
He tells people to cut back on carbs and get more exercise. That's good advice for the average American, but that doesn't mean throwing whole grains out with the white flour and sugar.
Anything based on the authority of that book is questionable.
Edited by NE Ridger 11/15/2014 19:50
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West KY, Miss River County | Devin, good point. As we are seed producers and have seen germination loss using Roundup, my assumptions were too narrow.
Your comments was for feed use only. My uses are for seed use mainly.
https://www.sdstate.edu/sdces/resources/crops/weeds/upload/07-FS953-Harvest-Aid-Weed-Control-in-Small-Grain-2009.pdf
Glyphosate (Roundup) products. Pre-harvest application is not
recommended for barley or wheat seed crops, due to risk of
reduced germination or vigor. Several glyphosate products are
labeled for feed barley or wheat. Labeled Roundup products
include Roundup Original, UltraMax, UltraMax II, OriginalMax,
and WeatherMax. ... Check labels for other registered
glyphosate products.
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West KY, Miss River County | Error on my part. it is used as a desiccation/harvest aid, but wheat/ barley or oats is not the place.
Thanks for reading carefully- better than I did apparently. |
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| I am reading Roundup label and refers to Feed barley and wheat. Pre harvest Roundup wheat for human use is not allowed? |
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Virginia | Thanks for the info. Just saw this on Facebook and replied the following:
The use of that practice is overstated as I believe it is technically only labeled for animal feed grade crops. Reason being is that it potentially affects germination when wheat or barley is not fully mature. The use rate is within the safe tolerances determined over decades of real research. Food has multiple toxic substances but as any toxicologist would tell you, "it's the dose that makes the poison". |
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Have you ever heard of spraying wheat with roundup before harvest?
