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Mid Michigan | I have a 15 acre piece of soybeans that at starting to turn yellow. This piece was crp ground for 25 years. Right next to it is a piece that has been farmed right along. Right to the row between the old crp and farmed ground the soybeans are turning yellow. After digging some plants there is a definite difference in nodulation. All the beans where the same variety, treated and inoculated. We pulled tissue samples today and will have results in a couple days. Did the inoculant not work? What yield difference might I see? Anything I can do now? Thanks |
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| Did you inoculate them? If not epic fail. |
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Martinsville, Ohio | http://www.hymark.blogspot.com/2013/08/nodulation.html
It could have died or be the wrong strain to work in those conditions. I am guessing it was dead on arrival but who knows.
I would hit them with some N right quick, 100 lbs AMS or 50 50 with urea would be my choice. Maybe more than that. Most are low in Boron and or Mn here also.
Ed |
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SEON | Would I be correct if |I guessed that you no tilled the beans in and did not use two different types of innoculant and double the rate?
Edited by rank 8/5/2013 20:43
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Mid-Michigan | Bugkiller - 8/5/2013 20:40
Did you inoculate them? If not epic fail.
"Treated and inoculated" |
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Mid Michigan | They were notilled but only used 1 inoculant. |
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Mid Michigan | If my seed dealer put the inoculant on, do you think I should be compensated? Beans are about waist high and I will not drive through them. If I fly ams on how much will I loose if I do to get any rain? Will I burn the beans? |
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Mount Pleasant, TN | AMS is pretty stable.... I just spread 125lbs of AMS mixed with 50lbs of pelletized lime, the only burning I saw was where I REALLY overlapped on the ends. Even where I made a 120 foot wide test with double the rate, I could not see and noticeable burning. |
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western NY | drive through them and put down about 60 actual lbs of N and hope for a rain. We had the same trouble last year on several fields that had never had soys before. You could see rite to the row where beans had been in the past. After we had the N spread they greened rite up and made 45-50 bu where the ones on old been ground made 50-60 bu.
as a side note I have never had soys on most of the farm I own, always raised dry beans. This year we have about 150 acres that was either peas or prevent plant dry beans. We are sowing 250lbs of soys as a cover crop now and hope they get big enough to nodulate before we kill them off to notill wheat the end of September. |
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Death comes to us all. Life's but a walking shadow | Do you happen to have a sample of the very same soybean seed left over? The rizobium will be long since non-viable but maybe you can still detect the carrier. Can you verify that the seed was actually innoculated? The rizobium bacteria is notoriously vulnerable to drying, temperature, etc, There are strict limits as to how long the bacterium remain viable after applied to the seed. I don't know if anyone has a carrier system proven to really guarrentee viable bacteria for pretreated seed. That said the peat carrier has been shown to be reasonably effective but not so convenient.
Can you determine how long after the seed was treated it was planted? And was it within the required time limits,
It is my impression that some farmers and seed dealers are quite cavalier about the importance of proper handling of innoculant. This is probably because once innoculated soybeans have been grown in a field it is difficult to demonstrate that re-innoculation is effective. As a consequence a farmer can repeatedly improperly handle the innoculant and never realize it.
Even though it is likely that the innoculation was non-viable and ineffective how would you prove (without a great deal of work) that it isn't some other factor?
The beans are waist-high and pods are set and beans are about to begin filling, even if you could apply nitrogen fertilizer now how much good can it do? Would a foliar application using a highboy be effective. A highboy with a 60 or 90 spray booms wouldn't trample much crop and just might be economically justified.
Personally I apply fresh liquid innoculant the same day I plant and re-innoculate if planting is delayed.
Good luck. |
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SEON | mille705 - 8/5/2013 21:05
They were notilled but only used 1 inoculant.
"Soybean school" advises doubling up the rate and to use two different types of innoculant for reasons that you are experiencing now.
http://www.realagriculture.com/category/crop-schools/soybean-school... |
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Manitoba | Pod fill is the best time to apply the n. Otherwise it gets wasted on vegetative growth. |
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King City, Mo |
I hate they put this stuff in metric.....google is your friend..
30 (kg ha) =
163.432234 pounds acre
50 (kg ha) =
272.387057 pounds acre
Hmm....
Beans need 5-6# of n per bu....
If you applied 150# dry ammonia nitrate at .70# it would be $105/acre plus application....October beans at Cargill 11.58-.40trucking = 11.18/bu or 9.39bu to pay for it....
Also has the soil been soil sampled there? The other ground has been limed and fertilized over the last 25 years and the crp just set idle. No fertilizer no manure like row crop or pasture ground. Then the gov releases the crp for haying and all that organic matter is taken from the ground and nothing it put back...(yes I've done this my self and yes I bought a farm that was in crp too, it was the only field of crp in the section though)
Plus alot of less then optimal ground and problem ground was put into crp back then for a reason. Old timers were not stupid....
Edit: look where it says potassium favors the formation of noduales. Everything needs lots of n, but we can't over nitrate and forget about the other nutrients. The soil is like a motor and if one part is screwing up that is your limiting factor and throughs others outta wack.
Plus 1 for pulling a plant analysis.....the crappy part is it may not be feasible to do anything this year but make note for next time....
Edited by lawfarms 8/5/2013 23:03
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Mid Michigan | Yes it was soil sampled 3 weeks ago. I do not have the sheet right in front of me but everything looked good. Om 3.6 ph 6.8 phosphorus 360 and micros looked ok. We did spread 100 pound each of map and phos before planting. |
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NE Iowa | Please report back your tissue test results. I have a farm I rent that has beans on it for the first time ever. I double inoculated the beans myself with 2 different companies product. Those beans are lighter color, shorter, and have smaller leaves then all the rest of my beans. I tissue sampled both the "good" and "bad" fields last week and found very little difference. On the "bad" fields everything was in at least the sufficient range. The % N was a littler lower on those fields then my other beans but still sufficient. I'm curious to see how your tests turn out. |
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| That has been my advice for the past 15+ yrs also.
Edited by mhagny 8/6/2013 05:58
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Garrett County, MD | That has been the only way I can get satisfactory N fixation after CRP here. Works great. |
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Garrett County, MD | What you are seeing is common here where we farm into a lot of CRP. Never seems to effect yield as long as all other things are even... weed and insect control etc. |
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Martinsville, Ohio | Perhaps, I don't know your situation but I would sure ask him to come dig roots with you and show him where the seed did work if it did anywhere.
Thousands of acres were aerially fertilized with granular last month north of Columbus Ohio. The fields look good.
Don't worry about burn, just feed them. Pel Lime and AMS works pretty darn well but throw in some boron or whatever else you might need if you can while you are paying for it.
Ed |
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n.c.iowa | interesting comments on this thread,in our area if we plant soys on ground that they haven't been grown on for several years,they get too tall and rank,have to spray cobra or pinnacle to shorten them up,and plant a bushier/shorter variety. |
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Macon, IL | I vote 2 or 3 samples from good spot and yellow spot, soil test and tissue test both. Bet you will get your answer.
That being said, I doubt innoculate on soybeans in CRP-and still not a sure bet.
Edited by pbutler 8/6/2013 07:51
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Rolla, ND | I believe a lot of dead innoculant is sold. Normally, most says go on ground that you could never tell so the companies don't get many complaints overall. If you have problems they complain that you didn't do things their instructions don't even suggest. Double treating for instance.
We had big problems with all the new soybean ground here until the companies got worked over pretty good and suddenly our innoculant is good and they must send the bad stuff other places.
If you grow wheat before the beans, inoculate the wheat, you will get better modulation. Still inoculate the beans, but if you did the wheat you won't just have nodules right by the main stem.
The other thing that can happen is too much nitrogen, giving lot's of early growth and very little modulation. Then the field runs out right about podding time. You'd need a deep N test to know that. |
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| lawfarms - 8/5/2013 20:51
30 (kg ha) =
163.432234 pounds acre
50 (kg ha) =
272.387057 pounds acre
It's divided by 2.47 acres in an hectare, not multiplied.
30 kg/ha = 26.8 pounds per acre, 50 kg/ha = 44.6 pounds.
Windows calculator has a conversion feature, or you can download Calculator Plus from microsoft.com. |
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Lancaster, OH | Depending on the inoculant used, some require 2x rates for what I would call virgin ground. For instance, PrimoCL puts on over 4 million rhizobia/seed where most other premiums are about 1 million which is adequate most times. There are others that are below those numbers and dry products that are substantially less.
Whenever you go in challenged areas (virgin, previously flooded, low or high pH, etc.) make sure you are getting plenty of bacteria.
I'd guess that you had inadequate live rhizobia numbers for virgin soil whether that was dead product or too low a rate. Apply 60# or more actual N soon to try to salvage an "average" crop. |
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Soybeans not fixing nitrogen
