Chimel - 1/13/2013 03:11 Hey, I put a smiley in that vinegar thing, it was not meant to be taken seriously. I don't deny it, but Gary was hoping it to somehow be a selective herbicide and kill his rye but not his wheat, or at least that's how I understood his comment. A very polite way to remind me I was wrong on this one, I read the NOP document some years ago and forgot about the 90-120 days clause for raw manure. I checked other guidelines, such as Nature & Progrès in Europe, and while they say all manure must be composted for 3 months without mentioning exceptions, even there I also found a small print clause on raw manure, allowed if it does not exceed 40 units of N per hectare (2.4 acres) per year, and 20 units of N during each spread. The document also says that at the end of the composting period, the compost from this non-organic manure must be analyzed before being used, and checked for some chemicals such as lindane. It does not really detail what should be done if the test is positive. (http://www.natureetprogres.org/servicepro/sp71.pdf, in French unfortunately) The idea for not using raw manure is not just the sanitary argument, it is also for soil life. I believe it is not relevant to normal manure, as it is applied in such small quantity on the ground that it will degrade quickly, and such a manure is almost never "raw" anyway, it may have collected for a week or more in a heap outside the stable. But liquid manure, from hog lagoons especially, has been proven extremely toxic for the earthworms. Even if the NOP allows it or does not mention it specifically, certainly uncomposted liquid manure should have no place in an organic farm regardless of the 90-120 days rule. But maybe liquid manure is handled in a separate section of the NOP document.