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| Gary Lyon |
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![]() Southeast Wyoming | Ron..NE ILL..10/48 - 12/1/2012 16:42 dairyman78 Ron, I don't believe that the hospitals "here" submit unpaid bills to the state. I'm sure some are sent to collections and it becomes a daily ritual for collections to call the "debtor". You cannot get blood out of a turnip but these collection agencies do not seem to realize that or do not care. Yes, we need healthcare reform because you cannot get well with the wolf at the door so I suspect many let their health issues go untreated for too long. Then it gets very expensive and/or hopeless. I wonder if there isn't some profiling involved with how unpaid bills are handled? If it looks like someone has income potential then collections takes it on; if there appears to be no income potential then it goes to the state or is forgiven?? Thanks for the post, it may be something worth looking into. | ||
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| Gary Lyon |
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![]() Southeast Wyoming | Back before I got old enough to qualify for our socialized medicine, I got a notice every year notifying me of the annual premium increase. Then shortly after my birthday I always got another notice saying something on the order of: "Wow, you didn't tell us you had became another year older too, so now we will jump it up somemore." lol Edited by Gary Lyon 12/1/2012 19:27 | ||
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| jeff gordon |
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Mather, Manitoba | Well we have to initially pay for meds when I goto pharmacy. Then we get a refund on our income tax for all medical expenses, pescriptions. Including dental. | ||
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| dairyman78 |
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S.C. Wisconsin | You are correct, if you own property you better have health insurance or like you say it can disappear over night. | ||
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| srsu99 |
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Central / West Texas | I think the biggist part of the problem is with the amount that is charged for the services rendered. My main income comes from steel building erection. I have a large investment in equipment to do this safely and efficeintly. I have 6 years of college under my belt, and 20 years of on the job experience in the field I am in. I can not charge half the price per hour what doctors charge! Well maybe I could a few times and then never have any work again. I would not be suprized if I dont have a larger investment than most any doctor. I think my ins premiums are probally around half of what they pay, but I cannot charge half the hourly rate that they bill out. Yeah if they screw up someone can die, but it's a similar situation on my end too, yet I dont get the 7 figure compensation that they get. We have over 150 doctors living in our county of 20k. The orthapedic surgeon here has his own jet and a place in canada, what is wrong with this picture? Is someone billing out a little much? | ||
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| johnypop |
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ND | redoak - 12/1/2012 05:32 Reading post below about the serious accidents and injuries I just cannot understand why USA would not have a health care system like Canada . This week I had 1 nephew get a knee rebuilt,another nephew get a degenerated bone repaired in leg and niece who is a ICU nurse developed a brain tumor and had it removed. There hospital and medical bills cost them 0.We do pay higher income taxes and have a goods and service tax but we can get medical treatment with out losing our homes . And niece and 2 nephews are doing fine. Then we would have no coffee can at the bank to collect donations for the uninsured and under insured and also no spaghetti dinner benefits which only amount to a drop in the bucket what the medical field charges. Also no medical bankruptcy, A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured. | ||
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| CaseIH2388 |
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Strasburg North Dakota | Good post truegreen | ||
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| dairyman78 |
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S.C. Wisconsin | I am 64 and self employed and for my wife and I for the last 3 years our health care cost have been about $30,000 a year for health insurance, deductibles, prescriptions, and dental care. Yes as you get older it gets extremely expensive. I probably sound like a broken record but I always warn a lot of arrogant young people that you had better prepare for this if you want to keep our present system. | ||
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| dairyman78 |
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S.C. Wisconsin | One other thing I believe there is collusion between health care providers. I know the dentist collude and set their rates. When is the last time you seen a health care provider advertising lower rates for health care? Being I get my dental work done in Mexico it has exposed to me how dental work here in the states is a controlled racket. My Mexican dentist lives in the US and gets his dental crowns from Texas. Now figure that one out? He doesn't have to conform to American Dental codes. By the way I have been extremely happy with work I have done down there. | ||
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| canadianeh? |
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Saskatchewan, big whitetail country!!! | So you are at about 400 bucks a month a person for premiums? At age 64? What would they be for a healthy 36 year old? I wonder how our taxes would compare??? I am thinking my wife and I would be paying alot more than that for the health care portion of our income taxes, but our health care is "free" right? LOL That truly does not sound too bad to me. If people took their health more seriously rather than spend that much or more on monthly vehicle payments for example, it wouldn't be too bad, right? That includes dental and prescriptions? I would like that choice up here. | ||
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| dairyman78 |
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S.C. Wisconsin | I don't know how you figured but our care breaks down to $1400. 00 a month for a $10,000 deductible health insurance. Dental care is not covered. since for the last 3 years we have had health issues so had to pay the $10,000 out of our pocket. Don't know if you pay that much tax. I really don't like the idea of the government handling my health insurance though. Just allow us to make some money and as I mentioned in my lower post, there is to much collusion in the health care business in our country. | ||
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| canadianeh? |
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Saskatchewan, big whitetail country!!! | I just did a basic 30 000/3 years = 10 000 a year/12 months=a bit more than 800 a month for two people. I guess I missed something. I dunno really what the real answer is. Nothing will be perfect. I just think a blend of our systems would be much better than either one alone. | ||
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| Ed Boysun |
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Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning. | Before we got on socialized healthcare, our premiums were $700 / month for each of us or $1,400 total / month = $16,800 / year. And that rate was lower because we got on a State sponsored pool. Then we had a $7,500 deductable / person / year or a possibility of spending an additional $15,000 / year or a total of $31,800 just for health care costs that included no optical or dental. Remember now, that deductable was / year and it reset when Jan 1 rolled around. Woe be onto you if you landed in the hospital in the last week of Dec, as you would then be looking at $30,000 out of pocket for care plus insurance premiums if your stay extended into the first week of the year. Now our socialized medicine premiums (Medicare) are $99 and change / month per person. Medicare supplement is roughly $100 / each and the deductable is $0. Medicare is going up to $105 / month in 2013 but it surely feels like a weight has been lifted when we look at $5,000 per year as opposed to what the private coverage was costing. | ||
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| canadianeh? |
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Saskatchewan, big whitetail country!!! | I appreciate the explanations. Thank you. As I mentioned, my wife and I are setting up to have good disability coverage. We are young, so the premium is very cheap for reasonable coverage. It is more to recover or cover for lost income due to illness or accident. You could of course use it however you wanted. Some of these policies have very good coverage, of course with premiums adjusted accordingly. Another question then: Though these types of policies are meant to replace lost income, in the states could one buy this type of insurance to supplement regular health insurance? Would that alleviate some of the pressure? I suppose though, it depends greatly on the situation, the health issue etc... So it probably would not be much worth it... | ||
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| martin |
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I am self-employed. I buy my own health insurance. I have a "high deductible policy" - actually, a Health Savings account. I am billed 4x per year. My last bill was $3400 - it had just gone up. Previous quarterly bills this year were running just over $3000. I would have to look, but I think my deductible is somewhere in the $2000-3000 range. Which means I pick up the first dollar of coverage to that point, and the policy picks up 100% after that. If my memory is correct. Not all policies are set up that way, but that is how I got mine set up. I would have to go back and look how long I've been with this company. I believe when I started, the quarterly bills were running under $1000. I think I figured up one time, that my health insurace costs have been rising somewhere between 15-20% every year. Some years it did not go up; some years it went up more. But, on average, it has gone up about 15-20%. Again, that is from my memory, and it's been a while since I did that analysis, so my memory could be wrong. | |||
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| bobthedog |
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| It wouldn't have anything to do with the health insurance companies ripping you off becuse there is no competition. No I thought not. | |||
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| Ron..NE ILL..10/48 |
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![]() Chebanse, IL..... | johnypop | ||
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| dairyman78 |
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S.C. Wisconsin | They are talking about raising the age for medicare, if that was the case I think only the really rich would be able to afford the premiums for health insurance. The rest wold just have to turn all of their property and retirement savings over to the insurance companies or drop your insurance and take your chances. I guess the people who promote that are in the 1% or don't think they will ever get old. | ||
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| pat-michigan |
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UP / Thumb of Michigan | canadianeh? - 12/1/2012 22:35 I just did a basic 30 000/3 years = 10 000 a year/12 months=a bit more than 800 a month for two people. I guess I missed something. I dunno really what the real answer is. Nothing will be perfect. I just think a blend of our systems would be much better than either one alone. He's paying 30K PER YEAR. | ||
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| Ed Boysun |
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Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning. | Short term disability insurance is available here, and as I remember the cost isn't great for a young couple but to be honest I haven't really looked at it too closely because it's something I could handle by myself if it happened and when that's the case, I don't consider insuring. Long term disability is included as part of our Social Security package. If you have a few years of work history and become disabled for more than a year, then you become eligible for a SS retirement payment. Your wife and minor children also recieve what I think is half of your payment for each. A wife, two children, and your payment would end up doubling the amount you would recieve. I'd guess if you had a moderate level of income during your work history years, you might be looking at about $4,000 / month in just SS. SSI might add more to that, especially if minor children were involved. After two years of disability, you'd become eligible for Medicare coverage to take care of your health insurance needs and that could be a major expense as a result of what caused your disability. | ||
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| Ed Boysun |
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Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning. | One other thing that often gets overlooked when discussing insurance rates and coverages is the benefits of being in a group. Businesses with a big enough workforce, like schools, highway department, county workers, hospitals, and I guess in places where large labor unions exist, can negotiate a considerable better rate than an individual farmer. I often think of myself as a lonely antelope on the savannas of Africa, surrounded by hungry lions as I'm shopping for coverage as an individual. Throw in a mention of diabetes and even the lions won't eat you because your money has a sour taste. The hospitals, and doctors, and labs, and pill companies will dine on your carcass if you happen to become sick though. If you happen to get everything spent and are still alive, I guess you could take some comfort in knowing that you won't suffer too much longer because life prolonging treatments are going to dry up. | ||
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| redoak |
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deep SW On. | thanks for kind words on neice, subsidy was about US corn belt farmers. Since we live in the only canadian area south of the USA we travel, shop ect. in US often and you just can't believe all the new and really fancy medical facilitates going up...a retired neighbor who had US ins. had a heart attack in Florida and 1 week in hospital and bill was $250k ,they settled with hospital for 1/2 that > I know our health care costs lots of tax $but my beleive is everyone who works to there best ability deserves a house,food and health care ,if not we are a doomed nation. My wife has worked 35+ yrs. in burn unit and OR. and retired now but they always tried to do the best they could with what they had. | ||
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| martin |
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Here's a link to an article on Bloomberg on the issue. You may not know of anyone with backruptcy due to medical costs, but that does not make it "not true". | |||
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| johnypop |
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ND | martin - 12/2/2012 11:21 Here's a link to an article on Bloomberg on the issue. You may not know of anyone with backruptcy due to medical costs, but that does not make it "not true". Thank you martin for the rest of the story, even tho it is from 2009, probably worse now with the high cost of medical care. | ||
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| feelnrite |
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northwest tennessee | Dang I am starting to get scared. I have agreed with you on probably 5 posts recently. Are you taking smart pills or did you get kicked by a horse or what? | ||
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| Ron..NE ILL..10/48 |
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![]() Chebanse, IL..... | My part of the statement is still true. I do not know anyone that has filed personal bankruptcy due to medical costs...solely. Unless the article can print the name of someone that I know, I'll maintain my position. | ||
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| martin |
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You know, Ron, I think Bloomberg is pretty much a reputable business magazine. Don't you think? So, if it was printed in Bloomberg, I would think it would have some credibility to the facts. Don't you think? You know, Ron, I don't personally know anyone who has had an abortion either. But I am told that women do have them, so I guess it is true. Even though I can't list names of specific persons who have had them. I don't personally know any farmers who farm 5000 acres of land either. At least, I have never met one. Personally. But I am told they do exist. Maybe that is an illusion also????? | |||
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| Redman |
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SW Saskatchewan | My wife was a teacher and had wonderful health coverage(supplementary in Canada) that covered things like dental,optometrists, chiropractors,massage therapy, prescription drug, etc , etc..plus family coverage. Possible because at the time teachers were YOUNG, they could let a few old timers into the system without boosting the rate too much. When she retired she could transfer to the superannuated teachers plan with less coverage(what is the age of superannuates?) and larger payments because it was no longer govt sponsored. But by that time I was on the local municipal council and could buy into their group plan with better benefits and a lower cost than the teachers were offering(because the municipal workers in the plan were a lot younger than me). So we were covered from there until I decided I had better things to do. Was able to continue with the company at lesser benefits and higher cost but pre-existing conditions were no barrier. One of the downsides of being in a plan with younger people is that these plans give better coverage for orthodonty than false teeth! But he cost of this supplemental coverage is now 2100.00$/yr for me and my wife. Next year we will both be on the seniors drug plan here in SK and the cost of a COVERED prescription will be limited to $20.00/prescription. But more and more drugs are not covered-my wife takes medicine for osteoporous and it is not covered(76.95$ month) I have a $15.00 a month drug not coverd but the $10000.00/month drugs are generally covered. Have made a major claim for ambulance service but that is also subsidized for seniors-may drop the supplemental then. i can't get life insurance because of distal neuropathy(not disease related) but I can get supplemental US health coverage for traveling in the US for less than 4.00$/day, my wife is over $6.00/day because she takes ventolin. Basically, it is coverage to get stabilized and air-evacuated to Canada. Would be a wonderful world if we could stay young forever. And yes, our health care it is not free but it is just like US crop insurance-spreads the risk over a larger group and carries a subsidy(taxpayer) ingredient. our contribution-last year we paid over $10,000.00 sales tax on our motor home and Jeep. It all comes out in the wash, but unlike a health emergency, I can time our purchases to a time when we camn afford it. | ||
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| Redman |
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SW Saskatchewan | Might be that the amounts quoted were the amounts left outstanding after many other health bills had already been covered. Is your use of the word "solely" a code word like Romney and Ryan used? What are you implying? | ||
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| AgJudge |
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the place your food comes from- IOWA | Youd be surprised how much you would agree once you get a hold of a good Q-Tip AJ | ||
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| Pofarmer |
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![]() | You hit the nail square. The problem is lack of competition for Dr's. | ||
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| guypatrick |
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North central, IA | Made no statements, and your response is "that's just not true". Huh? How can a question be true? Or false? It's a question, for heaven's sake. | ||
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| pat-michigan |
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UP / Thumb of Michigan | Redman- or any other Canadians-one thing I've never been clear on was how much a "typical" taxpayer in Canada pays for health care via taxes. And, does it vary by Province? Guess my question is that is there a line item tax based on a % of income on your tax forms, or is health care basically paid from a general fund? Edited by pat-michigan 12/4/2012 07:04 | ||
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| Redman |
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SW Saskatchewan | Several years ago(1971? in the middle of a major tax realignment) the Govt dropped pretty well all dedicated taxes, the exception being our CPP(contributory pension) and the unemployment insurance paid by wage earners. So no separate tax (or fund) for health care. Back in the 40's, Sask had a sales tax they called the health and education tax-prior to medicare this was 3%, after medicare it was raised to 5% and later to 7% when its name was changed to Provincial sales tax and it went to general revenues-our "New" govt reduced it to 5% a few yrs back. I seem to recall that the cost per citizen was about $8000.00?, will check to see if that is the correct figure and edit if necessary. The rule of thumb is that health care in the province costs more than the total of provincial income tax raised.(my bad, I cant check but believe the difference is in total health care cost- drugs, optometrists, dentists etc are included.) But the Province has a lot of other revenue sources. Hope this is meaningful. EDIT: The cost per person is about $4680.00 for health care-this includes hospital and Dr. charges. Income tax raised in the province---$2084 personnal, $817 Corrporate, sales tax $1349, federal payments $1587 (from taxpayers too-fed taxes about 50% higher than provincial. For a budget breakdown http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/03/21/sk-budget-saskatch... Total figures are given in the graphs, but for quick per person calculations, sask has roughly one million people. Edited by Redman 12/5/2012 02:08 | ||
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Why no universal health care