Time to walk at that point. It's no matter if the price is the same or different, the deal is, like anything else I'm going to buy, whether it's a candy bar, a vehicle, or real estate, I want to know what the price is. What it costs me monthly, annually, or cash in hand is all on me at that point. What do you need for X, and I'll tell you if I'm going to give X or not. Simplifies it for both sides. I do understand that it's very likely that in today's world, probably 60% or more of a dealership's business happens on "can you get me down to this payment per month, whatever the term", so  guess that's why the operate on that model, just frustrates me.