Jeffersonville, OH | Kochia - 7/31/2024 22:07
You mentioned in one of your posts that Agco tried expanding the Cat/Challenger crawler line world wide and it didn't work.
Why?
Not why didn't it work, why did agco take what's basically a regional brand and go world wide with it?
Did they think Caterpillar was stupid or something on why it wasn't world wide? I mean crawlers aren't exactly a universal machine like a wheel tractor, they went through a fad here and then disappeared then when the Versatile made rubber tracks came out they went through a fad and disappeared again, yet from what I understand, in the hills and further west, they were extremely popular. Caterpillar around the world means construction not agriculture, its just pockets here and there that it means agriculture.
Did agco try this with every brand it bought? Farmhand? Spra-Coupe? Hesston?
Farmhand was a regional brand that everyone here had something made by them, a loader, tub grinder, something, then nothing really happened with them aside from Agco basically making the same model Farmhand had made for 10 years before. A regional brand is what they were.
Spra-Coupe sounds somewhat like Cat's story, where I've found articles saying sales were flat and not increasing, so agco ended it and also kicked out a pile of dealers in the process. Again I'm not sure what Agco was expecting with a regional brand. Spra-Coupes were extremely common here in its homeland, and in other pockets, but that was its purpose. It wasn't a universal machine, it was a machine made here for here.
Hesston had a full line at the time of the buyout then agco was somewhat progressive with it then rebranded it here, which chased people away, as Massey swathers had a terrible reputation and when Massey is prominently displayed with a little Hesston sticker underneath, it does give the impression that it is a rebranded Massey. Again Hesston was a regional brand, did they try to take a regional central US brand world wide then be disgusted when it didn't take off because no one had ever heard of Hesston outside of its area?
Is this the story with everything Agco bought? They buy a regional brand, try to take it global, then get disappointed and discontinue it?
Are we watching it happen again with Fendt? I mean their combine isn't exactly a hit like what it appears they were expecting with big operations going back to other brands after a few years. Their wheel tractors, yeah there's a few, but again it's not exactly a smash hit. Then again I'm in articulated 4x4 country, the "big western farms" area as it used to be called.
I mean aside from Massey, basically everything else they bought is a regional brand.
Challenger might be a regional brand, but the color recognition that some people preach about and whine about with AGCO is not regional...there's a little brand called Caterpilar that is the same color as the Challenger line, and it is known worldwide. So, while it was not marketed through that dealer network, it was thought that there would be some recognition based on the color. Again, not a great plan in my opinion, but at that time, the folks making the management decisions were die hard Challenger folks...most of them are all gone.
Why did they do it, for more sales, why else would they do it?
No, AGCO did not take any other brands global really...products, yes, but they either put Massey on them, Fendt on them, or a different regional brand. The US farmers really have no idea what AGCO does overseas in most cases...there are many places in the world that they are it, and many more places who say John who? Nothing wrong with not knowing, as you need to know your own world, not the whole one.
Did any of you know that AGCO builds, or at least used to build, big square balers in Hesston Kansas and they are New Holland red and yellow with New Holland decals. New Holland at that time was buying big squares from AGCO for countries they couldn't get legalese paperwork straight I believe, and was marketing our baler as theirs. How's that for #1 in hay?
As far as Hesston's full line, eh, the tractors were FIAT and not selling well, so it made sense to kill it and concentrate on Hay and Forage...Hesston is Hay in the west, period. Why everyone gets so cranked up about a MF sticker on a Hesston Swather and Baler is beyond me, but I'm a dealer who flat out says to customers "Use your eyeballs and look at that baler, does it look like the Hesston you are trading me? Hmm, wonder if it might be the EXACT baler you had before, with a different sticker" We never cared about the branding, you can look at the product and see what it does, and I can make it perform.
Same with a Gleaner combine...I don't care if they paint it pink, I can sell it, because I will back it up and make it work.
You are not watching the same thing with FENDT...it was already a Global brand, not a regional brand. Same with MF, which is exactly why there is only MF in this country now, because it made the most sense at that time to those in charge...not everyone agreed, but 13 years later, stop whining about it, it's not changing. Orange is dead, Silver is dead, Yellow is almost dead...but if you want other colors, your dealer can have the factory paint it for you...
FENDT will be here...AGCO has taken it from a European regional brand in 1997, and turned it into a Global powerhouse for technologically advanced, and dead reliable products. Is the harvester 100% reliable yet, not that I understand, but it has come a long way since 2018, and the 2022 and newer machines can run with anyone from what I hear. Is the X9 perfect yet either? Both are clean sheet of paper designs, and if anyone expected no growing pains, they are ignorant of how machines work in the real world.
As has been said, AGCO's biggest hurdle is dealer network...they know this, but it can't be fixed overnight. They were actively working to add FENDT dealers across the country, but had to take a break recently with the upheaval in the old Challenger dealer networks to fix those major concerns. This is not an easy process, the fixing of holes left by major dealer chains just pulling the plug, nor adding FENDT to an existing dealer. It's a big commitment in all aspects of the business, and AGCO takes it very seriously...if the dealer isn't willing to do the same, the AGCO goes looking for someone else. It takes a lot of money to get people trained, buy the tooling, put units on the lot, and invest in the equipment needed to go out and support the FENDT Gold Star program of warranty and service work.
So, does AGCO kill everything, nope, typically only stuff that flat doesn't sell...or, in recent years, things that don't sell enough volume to justify the build slots that they likely need for other products. Sunflower is the only thing I'd say is dying right now, there just isn't any new products coming, or money to develop them, and they aren't really willing to push much because the factory is pumping out planters as fast as they can build them...so, if you don't have the build slots, why try to grow a brand. Some Sunflower products are hanging in there, discs for example are still selling well, as are some field cultivator and finisher models, but the line is pretty thin in the variety available anymore. It's also understandable as tillage practices have changed dramatically since 2004 when we took on Sunflower.
Is everyone going to agree with my assessment? Again, nope, some people refuse to look at a Global picture and understand not everything can be built special for each market...if you think AGCO is the only company who does this, you're also delusional. Look at a 6420/6430 Deere and tell me that's not a European tractor brought to this country. Same with some of the CNH 150hp and smaller stuff...they all do it, but it's only bad when it's AGCO. There also isn't a market for every product that there once was...Spray Coupe was a good example of that, along with the Farmhand line really. Glencoe was redundant once Sunflower was purchased, and Sunflower had better products...so bye bye Glencoe. However, the New Idea spreader lasted until it was cost prohibitive to produce them because they were taking up spots at Hesston needed for balers and haybines, so they decided to discontinue them and remarket H&S spreaders...they did that with rakes for years, but no one complained then?
Then there is the White planter...hasn't seemed to hurt it that it says MF on the side, there are still White positive air pressure meters available on some models, and they are still selling as well as they did when it said White Planter...so, the MF branding must only be a detriment when people can't see the moving parts?
Here's my question...people bring up the Massey Ferguson branding as being a historically bad brand, which I can say, isn't all untrue in the North American market...but, are brands not allowed progression? You measure Massey by their products from the 60's and 70's, but don't do the same for others...if John Deere hadn't got on the inline engine bandwagon in 1961 and was still building giant 2 cylinder engines at 400hp, would you all still say they were great because they had never changed? If Case had never progressed beyond the powershift transmission that snapped your neck when you pressed the clutch and bogged the engine bad enough it black smoked, would that be OK? Allis Chalmers was a technological leader throughout those same time periods, but mismanagement caused arguably the biggest corporation in Agriculture to go bankrupt...it had almost nothing to do with the products, it was all management...but a company who doesn't have access to the trademarks are supposed to keep painting things the same colors?
The last paragraph is written with some jest, but, the points are not...you tout Deere as an innovator, CIH can take brands and merge them and come out well, but AGCO has to leave everything alone? I've said many many time, are they perfect, NO, but, they do a lot of things right. Most issues I see around here are not AGCO issues, but dealer problems...but their dealers don't get the same considerations as the other dealers either. I can't be the same as a Deere or CNH dealer, I have to be better, because the perception is, my products are not on par with theirs. Most of AGCO's marketing issues of the last 20 years could have been somewhat alleviated by getting the dealers out in front of it, and not have us reacting to it the same as customers.
I'm thinking I rambled on about too much to answer anything...what do you think?
Chris |
Question for Chris
