northerngrazer - 1/30/2023 10:51
dieselfume1 - 1/29/2023 20:27
No better than the meat packers? you’re saying that someone who is buying hay that his neighbor put up for sale and paid his asking price is taking advantage of a person who will not spend $5000 to educate themselves, but will spend 10/20 times that on a tractor purchase or a pick up purchase order or anything else that he thinks make him money ?
That is victim mentality thinking. Capitalism is still involved in this nation at least for now, now that does not fix all of the nations soil health degradation problems, but it does keep the ranchers that are using their mind and looking for the best possible solutions on the land .
I'm saying that the person that takes advantage of his neighbours asking price is creating an unsustainable relationship. I'm not saying a person should buy hay from their neighbours at some overinflated value just to be a swell guy. I'm saying they should buy it at a price that will allow that transaction to take place for the next 10-20 years. To me that is sustainable.
And how about this curveball, we are far from knowing exactly what we are doing. We are in our infancy in our journey, we are still figuring things out as we go, but are moving forward with both eyes open. What about the neighbors who talk to neighbors who think we are failing, but then start making changes on their operation because they can see That things could be better. If all we are doing is taking advantage of our neighbors, what is it 1/2 a dozen neighbors begin to mimic what you were doing because you took the first step up the trail, and they followed behind. ?
It would seem you took my opinion as something of a personal attack. I was just talking about bale grazing in general terms. I realize that you're probably touchy because you've got a bunch of neighbours giving you crap, but everybody needs to slow down a bit and remember that it's just another way of feeding. The term 'bale grazing' does it a disservice in that it makes it sound more 'out-there' than it actually is, which is feeding on pasture without bale feeders.
As for the nutrient side, I do agree that taking it from the hayfield to put on other areas is still taking nutrients from one area and depositing it in another. But if my hayfield is going almost 2 tons to the acre on a decent year, and I have bare ground (hardpan) that is growing absolutely nothing, than me being able to jumpstart that soil and grass and get grass growing is like me buying ground every year just for the cost of those bales. I feel that if I can jumpstart that ecosystem, then eventually, it will takeoff on its own, but you have to begin somewhere. I don’t claim to have all of the answers, but I do believe if ranchers started fixing their places economically first, the soil health aspect will follow behind, and it must be that way not the reverse.
I agree wholeheartedly that our soil is the heart of our ranch, and beyond that, our entire existence. As I'm writing this from my desk I'm sitting next to a bookshelf full of names like Jim Gerrish, Gary Zimmer, William Albrecht, Nicole Masters, Fred Provenza, Neal Kinsey, and Gearld Fry, among others. That is to say, I'm well on board with this stuff. I don't criticize the bale grazing system out of ignorance, but because there's pros and cons of every system, which is precisely what it seemed you were looking for in your original post.
That said, through past experience of moving feeders every 2-3 days over marginal ground, leaving similar residue and nutrients as one would get from a bale graze site, I've found that when you don't have the root system first to accommodate those nutrients, you just can't take advantage of them. Namely, the nitrogen disappears quite quickly, and on margnal ground that is really the fuel a piece needs to get 'jumpstarted'. If you want to use bale grazing to increase the nutrient holding capacity without that system, you have to leave a lot of residue, which is totally fine if you can afford it. With the current price of feed I would lean toward getting some good species in first but to each his own.
Our start to bale grazing
