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Iowa | I am interested in buying a metal lathe for the farm but have little experience. There are times it would be nice to bore bushing stock and turn steel shaft down for welding projects and Build bushing/seal drivers for machinery repairs. I can't see needing to cut threads for anything but there may be a time. What would you guys suggest (new or used/brands/size)? Where are the wear areas on a used lathe or things to look out for? Are there certain brands that are easier to get parts for the older machines? Thanks for any info. |
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Iowa | Wow, looks like he has 269 videos. Thanks |
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Mid Minnesota | J.L. no need for new for ocassional use , allmost all older lathes are good, personaly have a weakness for the 1975 or older machines own a lablond regal now worked with many others over the years in the machining trade. Where are you located usually there are used machine equipment dealers that way you could look at several different models and prices, Most people dont know how much manual type equipment is out there in storage as our industry is down in this country and modern machine shops use very little manual eqipment any more, everthing is computer controled in large shops now, so there is large supply and light demand Thanks |
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Central Missouri | MIT has a decent set of videos
http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/142-machine-shop-1
Tommy |
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Iowa | The closest "city" is Desmoines Iowa. I was thinking about putting a want ad on craigslist and see what shows up. It looks like you can buy a monster of a used machine for what a new small southbend costs and I think they are even an import now. Thanks |
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Iowa | Interesting, Thanks |
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Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning. | I started out with a small 8X14 lathe. It worked OK for a lot of the things you mention but like a lot of things, bigger would have been better so I sold it and bought a HF China made 14X40. It weighs right at a ton, so is fairly rigid. There is virtually no one around here with a lathe and buying used was out of the question for me. I knew next to nothing about them when I started looking, so would have been really easy for me to buy a worn out piece of junk, even after I would have looked at it in person. I paid $3,000 for this one and have been happy with the accuracy.
I added the DRO after I bought the lathe and that's not included in the $3K.
If you're looking at a used machine, areas of some concern would be the headstock bearings but those could be replaced fairly easily. The bigger worries would be the bed ways and leadscrews.
Older lathes often had unhardened ways that were prone to wear and dings from dropping stuff on them. Here's a pic of the carriage on my lathe that will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
This is the part of the lathe referred to as the carriage. It moves along the length of the bed and is held true by the triangular ridge on the front of the lathe and the box like way at the back. A lot of times, the carriage spends a good part of its working life within a foot of the headstock and chuck. A lot of back & forth in this area with improper cleaning and lube can cause more wear in this area than will be found in the area farther from the chuck. There is provision to snug up the way on the back but not much can be done to keep the front way holding the tool at the proper distance from the work axis. Additionally, if you get things snug in the worn part, the carriage will be too tight when it moves toward the unworn end of its travel.
The next part of the carriage is the middle slide shown that is referred to as the crossslide. It sits on dovetail ways and its position is controlled by a leadscrew turned by either the hand dial or a gear that turns in relation to the rotation of the lathe arbor. That dovetail way is also often subject to uneven wear because there is usually a range of its travel is more used than other parts. The leadscrew for the crossslide can wear uneven too and when these are tightened to compensate for wear, they're too tight at the ends. Very hard to correct for. Then the top section of the carriage has one more movable part that sits on another dovetail way and is controlled by a leadscrew. Expect similar wear issues on the compound slide due to not being always used for the full travel.
A real accomplished machinist can compensate somewhat for some of the wear problems. Since I was a long way from that, I decided to make my life simpler by not needing to compensate for worn out stuff.
As for parts for older machines; some of the replacement bearings can be found without too much hassle. If its a part that is usually subject to wear or breakage, then your chances of finding a good one on a donor machine aren't good and if its been out of production for a while, chances of finding a new or good one are poor. At least a newer import machine still has most oddball parts available. |
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Denhoff,ND right in the center of the State | I started out with a old Atlas 10x40 quick change lathe worked really well but was too small for what I wanted to do, only could get a 3/4 inch shaft through it, Last fall I was fortunate enough to find a 14x40 Jet lathe from a estate in my local town, couldnt have found a better deal, was looking the whole net through and they were all so far away, My lathe is quite similar to what Ed Boysun has, once you have a lathe you wont know how you got by all the years without, I find I use mine several times a week, recently went through the Eaton DS 402 rears in my Kenworth Semi, and need a seal and grit gaurd driver, with in 1/2 hour I had both made, I fix alot of shafts where the bearings have wore on them, I have a quick change head on mine that I really like for changeing attachments, dont be afraid to spend the money was the best investment for the shop I ever bought. Terry |
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| Smith Machinery just west of Ames usually has many used lathes of all sizes. In times past they claimed a Gilbert address, but are on US 30 a couple miles into Boone County in a building with a radio tower at the front door facing US 30. Erickson Machine Tools in Story City generally has lathes on hand, new and used also though the last I checked they tended to believe some of their products were gold plated with solid gold nuggets inlaid. Last year they had some decently priced South Bend lathes, and listed them on epay.
Grizzly has an extensive catalog with South Bend and Chinese imports. The Chinese imports all seem to be of the same design for a give size, whether sold by HF, Grizzly, Enco, or Jet.
There are many lathes on epay, most at exaggerated prices.
The biggest wear points are the ways and the cross feed lead screw and nut. Ways are fixable at the factory, but difficult in the field and worn ways make for conical turnings. Lead screws and nuts for the cross feed and compound probably are easier to buy than to make. If you don't plan to cut threads a quick change gear box for the apron feed is not so needed. You just set up the change gears for a decent feed speed and cut from there. If you want to have both a fine and a coarse feed and don't have the choices of threading and feed different because a simple lathe (like my 6" Atlas) has only the half nut in the apron on the apron feed screw, no gear drive in the apron from a slit on that screw or a separate slotted shaft, then you have to pick a compromise feed OR change the gears between roughing and finishing, unless you can be patient to do roughing cuts at finishing feeds.
There is a vintage book by South Bend titled "How to Run a Lathe" probably they haven't printed in half a century but its been reprinted by Lindsay Publications. Googling that title just turned up several sources and much discussion, mostly praising it.
Gerald J. |
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Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning. | In 2007, someone scanned and made PDF files of all those old manuals. One of the many machining forums (forget which) posted a link to a site where the manuals could be downloaded. For once, I wasn't asleep at the switch and downloaded all of them before they disappeared. I have a PDF of both the 3rd and 15th edition of How to run a Lathe. |
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Iowa | "How to run a lathe" looks like a good place to start ,(I've got one on the way). I can see how buying newer would have it's advantages for parts and wear issues. My experiance with tools is the "bargains" end up being the most expensive since I usually get pissed and buy the one I wanted in the first place anyway. So I would guess a lathe is the same. Thanks Ed, Bullhauler, Gerald
Edited by J.L. 3/8/2013 22:26
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NE WI | Expect to spend as much on tooling as what the lathe cost. I picked up an old Rockwell 14x40 that has the variable speed drive. Comes in handy when changing to a different dia part and you dont have to mess with belt changes. Mine came with a 3 and 4 jaw chuck and a face plate with dogs. I picked up a milling attachment for it and use it to cut keyways on shafts. Mine has some slop hear and there but you learn to work with it. I make bushings and shafts all the time. Cut the welds off of old worn out sprockets to reuse the hub. |
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Sandy Hook, MB | J.L. - 3/8/2013 20:53 The closest "city" is Desmoines Iowa. I was thinking about putting a want ad on craigslist and see what shows up. It looks like you can buy a monster of a used machine for what a new small southbend costs and I think they are even an import now. Thanks
Hello J.L.
There are no manual lathes being manufactured in the US today. If you want brand new you have to buy a cheap Chinese import. Be patient & you will find yourself some good used American iron at the right price. As stated all production shops have gone to CNC. Job shops that want to upgrade their machines to CNC sell off their manual machines. The thing about buying a 40 or 50 year old American built machine is that it will probably still be working for you in another 40 or 50 years. Will that cheap Chinese machine still be turning out parts for you in 40 or 50 years? I don't think so, it will have been worn out sent to the scrap yard long before that. |
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Pleasant Hills, NSW Australia | Most things have been covered with the wear side of things but i'll give a few pointers on general lathe construction and rigidity,
1. Stay away from flat bed lathes, they require more adjustment and are prone to faster wear than trianglular bed models - the lathes in the photos have triangular beds.
2. The wider the lathe the more stable it will be - and generally speaking the bigger the lathe the wider it will be to but if you have two lathes the same size the wider one will be more stable, thats probably not the one factor that will sway a decision but keep it in mind.
3. I like older colchesters but so do other people so most of them are worn out, Taiwanese lathes are generally better quality than chinese, i've had good experience with ajax lathes. Gosan lathes are really nice to.
3. Always get a lathe with a quick change gear box that goes at least a 1000 rpm - its hard to machine 12mm shaft at 500 rpm
4. quick change chucks are a must to, being able to change between 4 jaw/3 jaw and face plate is very handy without bolts or unsrewing a chuck is really nice - and it means you can buy other chucks and just put them straight on, there is an iso number or name for these but I can't remember what it is.
5. Tooling can and will cost a fortune, and the cheap stuff on ecrap is'nt much good unless your making parts for model trains, an hour with a good machine tool rep (sandvik/seco etc) might cost plenty but save plenty of time and frustration and produce a better job.
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SE WI | hf213 - 3/8/2013 20:10
check out "tubalcain" on youtube..I think he is a retired shop teacher, he really has some great videos, and seems to be a pretty sharp cookie ! he has a LOT of basic and useful methods.
I am in a machining class right now at the local tech college. Our teacher shows us a Tubalcain video for just about anything we learn. Hmm...why did I pay $450 when Tubalcain is free and he does the teaching at my school???
As for advice on buying used, I think you have that covered. You can see wear on the beds on the really worn out models. The other way is to put the head in the most traveled area and try an lift it up and down. As for lead screws, they will always show some movement. We have a brand new Bridgeport and you can move the bed by hand a couple thousand. We have Nardini and one other brand lathes at school and you can feel the movement in the lead screws on those. They are pretty worn, but good enough for kids trying to learn on them. I would say once a night somebody crashes into the headstock.
Actually school just scrapped 6 of the lathes. They never even offered them to people that wanted them. They replaced them with a bunch of stupid CNC lathes because "that is the future." I don't see that as true when you are making one of a kind parts in a repair environment.
Edited by sflem849 3/9/2013 07:26
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SE WI | Here is the one I am looking at right now. They are asking $700. It is flat belt drive, not exactally quick change. I ran it some when I was down there and it actually is really fast to change speeds. The other thing that amazed me is how similar it was to machines 75 years newer. This thing could thread and do everything a brand new machine could do. I restore old tractors and thought it would be pretty neat to restore this old lathe for use on the old tractors. 
Here is some info on it.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/rockford/page3.html
Ed, thanks for the picture help!
Edited by sflem849 3/9/2013 14:31
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Mid Minnesota | If you arent affraid of a drive minneapolis minn has several large used dealers or you could be pateint and whatch an on-line sales site such as search for Hoff-Hilk auctions they are an on-line sales company that sells all over they sell surplus equipment where it sits so the actual pick-up could be closer to you ect.. Ive had good luck with these guys and some times excellent prices , they all so liquidate tooling check them out could save several thousand dollars , for a good contact for tooling and supplies search -- MSC another is Travers tools call them get a catolog that way you can compare what you will need with whats out there they all so sell new equipment Thanks |
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| Are all lathes 3 phase ? |
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Mid Minnesota | Not all but most are ,, allthough you can some times put a single phase motor in them , usually its better to convert to three phase because if the new motor doesnt match speeds , the speeds of the machine on the gear selector will not be right, Thanks |
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Mid Minnesota | I just did a quik search of the hoff - hilk auction site they are having a huge march sale this month several lathes also the older monarchs on the auction are very good machines and probably not worn out as they are like the 4020s of the machining world, But like allways proced at your own risk, Lots of tooling to be had also the people can arrange shipping if you need it , On the machines i would take the time to look at them rather than bid blind Thanks |
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Sandy Hook, MB | Mnsidehill - 3/9/2013 08:41
Are all lathes 3 phase ?
Hello Mnsidehill
Don't be afraid of buying a lathe with a 3 phase motor.It can be run with a phase converter. A lot of guys build their own rotary phase converters out of a used three phase motor. Three phase motors are cheaper to buy than single phase motors. |
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central wisconsin | I have an old (1932) South Bend 9 Inch that I picked up for $450 a long time ago. Great beginner lathe, but too small for most farm jobs. The ways on mine are just about shot. I had no experience before buying it, and jumped in just like you. I would look for a mid range Clausing or Jet. |
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SE WI | Mnsidehill - 3/9/2013 08:41
Are all lathes 3 phase ?
Like Berryman said, not all. I would say 95% of the industrial surplus type machines are three phase. Like they said, lathes are easy to run on a phase converter.
Anybody have any GOOD plans for a phase converter? I have a 3 phase motor sitting around so I am halfway there. |
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| Your Australian "Quick Change" is NOT the USA "Quick Change". What I'm talking Quick Change is on the apron feed screw. What you are talking about is a "Gear Head" lathe where there's a multiple speed geared transmission between the motor and the spindle in the head of the lathe.
Gerald J. |
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| That IS a lathe with a Quick Change on the feed screw. And is what in the USA and Europe is called a Quick Change Lathe. Its NOT a gear head lathe. Flat belts do limit the torque more the V belts or gears so it won't hog metal as well as those drives, but it will probably have enough torque to work high speed tool bits all they can take. Where you really hog metal with big cuts is with carbide tooling and the flat belts well probably not have the torque to accomplish that. Where the chips turn blue and smoke as they come off the steel work piece.
Gerald J. |
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| The current Lindsay edition (reprint of SB 1942 edition) is $7.95 plus shipping from many vendors on line today like Amazon. The pdf versions would be handy too if completely converted so that word search functions. Not all scans do that much. Its nice to have it in print at the lathe when learning. I've found the original SB editions at book fairs for a buck or two. But only bought one in the past 40 years.
Gerald J. |
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Sandy Hook, MB | Gerald J. - 3/9/2013 11:33 Where you really hog metal with big cuts is with carbide tooling and the flat belts well probably not have the torque to accomplish that. Where the chips turn blue and smoke as they come off the steel work piece.
Hello Gerald J.
You also need speed to use carbide. Those old flat belt drives won't have enough speed to take advantage of carbide, you need something more modern that that. |
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| http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf is the first half of the 1958 edition. And http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf is the second half.
Much older editions are at: http://wewilliams.net/SBLibrary.htm
along with many practical publications on using lathes and other machine shop tools, including one on how to make bushings, the OP's original goal for having a lathe.
I'd go for the '58 version as being more applicable to the available lathes today, new or used, it saves having several pages on machine shop line shaft care and assembly.
Gerald J. |
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Iowa | Lots of good things to ponder. Thanks everybody |
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Denhoff,ND right in the center of the State | I have a Rockford drill press of that vintage, was run on line shaft, I converted to v belt and geared down through 4 speed trans, it has a #4 morse taper, I have drill bits up to 2" and will drill with ease, very good machines. Terry |
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Sandy Hook, MB | Hello Bullhauler
That beats my Delta with a 5/8 chuck all to heck. |
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ecmn | in souther mn. these guys are pretty good to work with. sominn.com bought a mill from them that needed some work but i saved a lot of money compared to what i was seeing at auction sites. they also let you use the machine so you can see it and hear it run, try out all the stuff to see that it works or dont work.
http://www.sominn.com/so_detail.cfm?s=015724
Edited by easymoney 3/11/2013 07:26
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Metal lathe for beginners
