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Conrad American grain bin DENT!
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DeerCreek
Posted 1/3/2009 08:22 (#555601)
Subject: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


North Central, Iowa		I built a Conrad American 42' grain bin 3 years ago. The summer it was built, a strong wind came up and dented the top couple rings. It was not a devastating wind but strong. That fall I filled it with corn up to the dented rings and the crew came and replaced, I think, six sheets. So now I have a bin with a little flat side to it at the top. It will probably never be an issue again, insurance paid, I,m out the deductable, no big deal. My question is how many other CA bins has this happened to. I have heard of four other ones in Northern Iowa. Maybe should of had stiffeners, but not my call. Must be something to the wide sheets are not as strong. By the way there were four STORMOR bins right next to it that were not damaged at all. I went with the Conrad American bin over another Stormor due construction schedule and the CA was a holdover at year old price.
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Chad H
Posted 1/3/2009 08:56 (#555619 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


NE SD		Seems to be a common theme in this area that GSI bins get dented.
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E718
Posted 1/3/2009 09:13 (#555631 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


Sac & Story county IA		There were a half dozen or more bins in this area that crunched in like that around here this summer. I dunno what brands.

Are bins figured for the internal load but not for the wind load?
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Jim ec IN
Posted 1/3/2009 09:25 (#555645 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


Markleville, Indiana		Friend hat 3 30' Brock bins lined up in a row. Had severe storm come through this spring and 1 of the 3 ended up dented as you describe.

Jim
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iseedit
Posted 1/3/2009 09:45 (#555668 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!



central - east central Minnesota -		My opinion is, it just so happened that - that bin took the burnt of the wind - wouldn't have mattered who's (company) bin would have been there it would have buckled. Seems the wind hits the first bin and then is deflected so no others get damaged. I think it has something to do with the overhang of the roof on the bin - not allowing the wind to flow over and around . . .  and pop, dented top sheet. . . .
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Chad H
Posted 1/3/2009 13:37 (#555906 - in reply to #555668)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


NE SD		Say what you want, but in our area the GSI bins have been denting more than any other brand no matter where they are placed.
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Millhouse
Posted 1/3/2009 10:20 (#555701 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


South-central Nebraska		At the 42 and 48 ft size you are where you can go thicker non-stiffened sheets or lighter stiffened. I've got a 48 by 9 sheet Sukup that ended up being the non-stiffened. It weighs a bit more than the equivalent stiffened and was about $1000 less. The factoy guy leaned toward this being a bit stronger than the stiffened. Next size bigger they go to a stiffened bin. Did I make any sense what so ever?
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Tyler WI
Posted 1/3/2009 10:47 (#555724 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!



Boyd, WI		I believe the only thing that might help avoid this problem in wind is the addition of "wind rings" -at least that's what I call them. Bigger bins normally have them in wind-prone areas and in the case of a side-draw option to keep the top rings from caving in and the bin from going out-of-round. They're the big pipes that go around the bin, attached at every siffener on the outside, for those that don't know what they are. It was said above, and yes bins are not built for external stresses, but for internal pressure. It's the nature of a circular structure. I just got another bin in on Wed. AM. It might help to make my grain site actually look like a site!



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collegeboy
Posted 1/3/2009 11:15 (#555750 - in reply to #555724)
Subject: wind rings pic



Slicker than a Yes album.		I don't know if the larger diameter bins are stiffened, but as you get over 33' eave height, they start stiffening. We have a Butler that's dented like yours. Except it's just one ring at the top and the air systems is welded through it. We'll fix it when the elbow wears through.
This pic is in our 60X85 Brock bin showing the chutes inside (for side unloading), I'm hoping the wind rings are in the photo. A neighbor has smaller GSI bins (80K) that the wind rings are on the outside.



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iseedit
Posted 1/3/2009 11:55 (#555801 - in reply to #555750)
Subject: RE: OT - side unloading thing'gy ?



central - east central Minnesota -

I've never seen the inside of a bin that has the side unloading option. Thanks for the pic, now . . . how does that work? Does it funnel the grain from the middle or does grain flow to that side of the bin and down the shute?

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collegeboy
Posted 1/3/2009 12:10 (#555814 - in reply to #555801)
Subject: RE: OT - side unloading thing'gy ?



Slicker than a Yes album.		Chris, that's the reason for the chutes. You NEVER want the grain to flow from the middle/center when unloading on the side. Even though there is space between each chute, the grain has to flow from the top (from 1 side to the other), across and down the chute. I need a pic when the grain is flowing. You can see the main chute has a funnel to the outside, the other pic is of the side unload. We only use that when the main is exhausted, it flows outside to a truck auger. We just cut a small hole in the sheet and welded a grain leg shut off around the hole. That's 25K less grain for the 10" main auger to run.
We do get a lot of fines in the center with the air system, but the side unload does a great job of blending things together on the way out.
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plowboy
Posted 1/3/2009 12:19 (#555823 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!



Brazilton KS		It seems that the wind ring is kind of a new thing. Our '97 bins do not have it, our new one has two of them. New one is also taller, though, but the top sheets are similar gauge.
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jasonl
Posted 1/3/2009 13:57 (#555919 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


midwest		The first bin is a GSI/Farm Fans, the second is a narrow core brock, and the third is a wide core Souix.  I don't think one is better than the other. 

Edited by jasonl 1/3/2009 13:59




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plowboy
Posted 1/3/2009 14:02 (#555924 - in reply to #555919)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!



Brazilton KS

I'd say the first one is better then the last two....at least part of it will still be usable.   That took some wind!

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Chad H
Posted 1/3/2009 14:12 (#555952 - in reply to #555924)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


NE SD		The problem is the GSI's get like that with half the wind that Jason experienced.
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jasonl
Posted 1/3/2009 16:38 (#556084 - in reply to #555924)
Subject: RE: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


midwest

The wind was clocked at 80-96 mph for over an hour (you should see the trees).  The FF/GSI and the one next to it, I pulled the side out the best I could with a cable and wheel/tire from the inside, then plugged the holes and put corn in it.  To fix it right it has to come down and put a new roof on it, it pushed the roof up enough that it blew all the stiffened support rings out and buckled the roof panels.  Then needs about 8-10 ring sheets.  Was quoted over 60k to fix it right, I built it 3yrs ago NEW for that including cement, floor, and unload.  I think I am going to see if I have a better crop next year and fill it and fix it on the grain, they said it can be done.



Edited by jasonl 1/3/2009 16:39
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sport
Posted 1/3/2009 14:44 (#555985 - in reply to #555919)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


nebraska		i built a bin in 08. I see the picture of the suix bin has a bin next to it with a wind ring on it. I asked about a wind rind when I built mine. Whas told it was not necesarry. In hindsite i think it is necesarry I priced a sioux, suckup, and Gsi. I think it comes down to the dealler. Mine did not really want to even price me one. I think it was because it would change the price.
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Thud
Posted 1/3/2009 15:08 (#556013 - in reply to #555985)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


Near-north Ontario, French River		What kind of winds are you guys talking about thats causing this type of damage. I have NEVER heard of a bin anywhere near us thats been damaged by wind alone, tornados yes but not just strong winds. What kind of wind speed would it take to dent a bin??
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Lil' Hoss
Posted 1/3/2009 15:12 (#556020 - in reply to #556013)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


NESD		Four years ago we had a storm come thru that had sustained winds clocked at the airport of 113 mph for just over an hour, it covered an area 40 miles wide by 80 miles long, I think that there were around 800 bins in that area that looked like the ones pictured.
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Thud
Posted 1/3/2009 15:33 (#556036 - in reply to #556020)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


Near-north Ontario, French River		YIkes....113mph might do it LOL..... I guess I'm in a calm area, here they start posting wind warnings if wind gets over 50kph... or 30mph... and thats rare.
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collegeboy
Posted 1/3/2009 18:15 (#556210 - in reply to #556020)
Subject: July, 1998, 90mph+ straight line winds



Slicker than a Yes album.		We had this bin cave due to the winds. I was in California and came home to find this and the only good tree in my yard had tipped over. It's destined to be furniture someday.
These bins, by the way, are MFS, but we took the roof off one and stacked it on the other to make a bigger wet bin. We added the siffeners as an extra precaution. It held for awhile after we fixed the caved sheets.

Edited by collegeboy 1/3/2009 18:16




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Thud
Posted 1/4/2009 14:08 (#557128 - in reply to #556210)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


Near-north Ontario, French River		Do you find that taller bins dent easier then shorter ones?
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collegeboy
Posted 1/4/2009 16:50 (#557307 - in reply to #557128)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!



Slicker than a Yes album.		Not that I've thought of or seen. The other pics I have of the side unloader, there's 6 wind rings in that one. 85 feet in the air is a lot of exposure to the NW winds we get. The wet bin, (just two threads away from this one) was not taken down and sheets of like thickness bolted together. Just a leverage thing, I guess. Maybe stiffeners all the way up would have helped?
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plowboy
Posted 1/4/2009 18:42 (#557448 - in reply to #556013)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!



Brazilton KS

We've had sustained winds around 100mph in the area, and people lost bins. 

Our bin site is like sitting in a wind tunnel....I bet there are spots that see 60mph in a 25 mph wind.  I would hate to be out there when it really blows. Seems like most times there will only be one bin in a facility damaged, and if you look at the layout you can often figure out where the windspeed was 'stepped up' by the other obstructions around it.   I know of one place where a particular bin has been damaged like this multiple times. 

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Kamp
Posted 1/3/2009 17:57 (#556183 - in reply to #555601)
Subject: RE: Location-Location-Location



Central SD		I don't think brand matters as much as where the particular bin was sitting, and how the wind (speed/direction) affected that area of the site. In the pic, the bin in the middle is a Brock, in between a Brock and a Sioux. The Brock to the right was damaged in a wind the year before, but wheat pushed the dent out of that one. The Sioux was undamaged in both storms.

The bottom pic is what happens when you don't have enough vents on your bin and they freeze shut. Only two bins we had this happen to out of 15 bins w/fans running.
Those 2 bins are the oldest bins with the poorest ventilation we have. Guess we should have left the lids open.

Edited by Kamp 1/3/2009 18:03




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farmer 3
Posted 1/5/2009 00:04 (#557954 - in reply to #556183)
Subject: Re: Conrad American grain bin DENT!


4 years ago we had 5 of 6 bins in a row damaged by a plow wind. We could clearly see where the wind had travelled; damage to neighbours trees in their yards. Bins were all 52, 000 bushel GSI's. No stifners, no wind rings. GSI has upgraded that model to include stifners on top three rings of bins that are then wrapped with two wind rings. Plow winds are the worst. They hit hard from one side and push the wall in and buckel the roof sheets. In our case, the 5 bins damaged were empty or next to empty. We spent two weeks in the shop building scaffolds. And with about 9 good men, two cranes, plywood sheeting on the aeration flooring, and 10 by 30 feet of scaffolding-tiered to follow roof line, we were as good as new in two more weeks. Some wall sheets popped back out with no kinks when the roof was cut free. One bin needed a new roof. The others just some sheeting had to be replaced. The crane operators could not see the job, so we kept two cell phones on buddy plans busy. We had a tower system over the bins for the drag conveyor system, and we repelled two men down the roof sheets from there. I do not want to ever have to do that again. My two cents would be always buy a stronger bin than you thought of. Spend the money on more roof supports and lift rings, and on wall stiffners and wind rings. If the dealer tells you that one wind ring is lots, think about putting on two. Its way less work, and WAY less money, to over build than to rebuild.
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