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Asphalt milling rolling?
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Dan Loehr
Posted 7/8/2017 16:39 (#6113239)
Subject: Asphalt milling rolling?


Holland, Indiana (SW IN)
Just bought 1500 ton of asphalt millings to put on our farm lot and steep farm drives.--Asphalt don't wash if you get a flood of rain on it.

A lot of planning to do
#1 have been told (mist) a little diesel fuel on it --will make it sticky--how much per 1000 sq. ft.?--how do I know? --I'm in SW Indiana its hot here--asphalt melts all summer about 1:00 pm?
#2 plan on spreading with our dozer 6X blade or a tractor pull 6X heavy blade, or our D4D W straight tilt blade (think the D4 will prob. work best in tight spaces)--keep trying until something works? Tractor and loader?
#3 Can rent a sit on vibrating roller --about $200 a day, $800 a week --never been on one will they work on steeper hills? --do I need a bigger one (it looks little?) Is this what I need? PIA?--looks small to me--is there an easier way?

Will not be here for a couple weeks --got some time to plan

Any help appreciated--if you've worked with millings-- bet there's some tricks

Thanks --Dan


Edited by Dan Loehr 7/8/2017 16:52
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Haleiwa
Posted 7/8/2017 16:50 (#6113260 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?



West Chazy, New York

Do your grading first; you want a solid base so the asphalt thickness can be consistent.  Grade and roll everything before you spread asphalt.  A vibratory roller is almost a requirement for a good tight finish.  If possible, keep your lifts to less than four inches (loose) at a time.  My observation has been that a sheepsfoot works best if you can find one.  Some really nice field roads and yards at a customer of mine were made by grading, rolling, laying out a layer of geotextile, then rolling the asphalt over the cloth.  It's holding up very well to heavy truck traffic.  It takes a lot more work, but carrying it to the site rather than pushing it seems to result in a nicer finish.  I think if you blade it you tend to segregate coarse from fine more than if you bucket it into place.

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iseedit
Posted 7/8/2017 17:10 (#6113292 - in reply to #6113260)
Subject: RE: + 1 and . . . .



central - east central Minnesota -

Haleiwa - 7/8/2017 16:50

Do your grading first; you want a solid base so the asphalt thickness can be consistent.  Grade and roll everything before you spread asphalt.  A vibratory roller is almost a requirement for a good tight finish.  If possible, keep your lifts to less than four inches (loose) at a time.  My observation has been that a sheepsfoot works best if you can find one.  Some really nice field roads and yards at a customer of mine were made by grading, rolling, laying out a layer of geotextile, then rolling the asphalt over the cloth.  It's holding up very well to heavy truck traffic.  It takes a lot more work, but carrying it to the site rather than pushing it seems to result in a nicer finish.  I think if you blade it you tend to segregate coarse from fine more than if you bucket it into place.

Grading works - just don't over do it. Grade a crown into it, so water drains to the sides. Asphalt does wash - just not as bad in lighter rains. But, in heavy down pours, if it runs down hill, it'll wash - that's why you need a crown to get it the rain off to the sides quicker.

Water works for packing - Diesel will dissolve the oil in the asphalt. Too much and you're in trouble, but a little would work. How much is a little? Maybe 0.015 gal per square yard (WAG on my part based on how much CSR2p [base oil] is applied on a chip seal over gravel road, which is about .3ths g/sqyd).

When you finish, you could chip seal over the top of it and have a asphalt road at that point, it wouldn't wash then.  

Don't know how steep you are talking, but have packed asphalt millings (3/4 minus millings), with a about a 10 degree or 6 to 1 slope and the small steel drum vibrator packer worked . . . . . . A 13 or 15 wheel rubber tire roller would work also, pulled by a tractor ?

If you are working with millings bigger then 1 1/2 inch - then you better plan on a sheep's foot packer . . . . . Dozer tracking over should help break and pack also. We used a skidsteer and bucket to place and level, then 1500 lb smooth steel drum vibrator roller, it could have been larger and heavier, but it worked.

Keep watering them as you place and pack - and water the heck out of them for final rolling/packing and keep going over them packing. They will get hard.

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Dan Loehr
Posted 7/8/2017 18:09 (#6113394 - in reply to #6113292)
Subject: RE: + 1 and . . . .


Holland, Indiana (SW IN)
iseedit what do you mean by watering --- hate to say how little I know

Dan
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Haleiwa
Posted 7/8/2017 18:21 (#6113420 - in reply to #6113394)
Subject: RE: + 1 and . . . .



West Chazy, New York
Have someone spray with a garden hose ahead of the roller. It will lubricate the material so it rolls tighter.
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iseedit
Posted 7/9/2017 08:34 (#6114333 - in reply to #6113420)
Subject: RE: Yes - Simple Water . . .



central - east central Minnesota -

Haleiwa - 7/8/2017 18:21 Have someone spray with a garden hose ahead of the roller. It will lubricate the material so it rolls tighter.

Yes, simple water garden hose or if you are doing farm roads/drives in different areas, then a water tank with home made spray bar. Soak it down and roll it out. Water as you are spreading and it really packs in hard. I'm not a fan of diesel - diesel is or was used as a cleaning or clean up agent on asphalt equipment. So you are dissolving the oil in the millings . . ..  . . .

There are many different types of millings - seems most of the milling projects around here are pushed pretty fast and the roads are broken up pretty bad, so the millings really come out as Chunks of asphalt. Millings here are never given away - they are always recycled and worth more per ton (if you could talk a pit out of some) then crushed granite . . . . ..   The reason the millings come out in chunks here is they handle better for final crushing later. The bigger the chunks, the less it sticks together or make a solid pile like some describe in their reply's.

Frankly, I'm surprised any State DOT, County Hwy Dept, City or Township would allow millings to simply be discarded . . ..  they have greater value being recycled into a new hot mix or as base material for the road . . . . . . . . .



Edited by iseedit 7/9/2017 08:40
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nw_bearcat
Posted 7/9/2017 08:29 (#6114322 - in reply to #6113292)
Subject: RE: + 1 and . . . .


Top middle of MO. land of green hills and grass
I put some on my drive a few years back. Some very finely ground, there was enough dust from the regrinding, I didn't think it ever stuck together very well. Some that was bigger worked better. Had a guy with a vibratory roller on a big skid loader come pack it for me.

Depending on how much water you have that might run down it, this was helpful.

https://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/stewardship/accessroads/construct...

I'd tried the swales and they sort of worked. Made the diversions out of old baler belt and they worked great to make sure I didn't have water running down the road.
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rancherman
Posted 7/8/2017 19:47 (#6113564 - in reply to #6113260)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?



interested in learning more about this  'geo-cloth'.   

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Haleiwa
Posted 7/8/2017 21:13 (#6113710 - in reply to #6113564)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?



West Chazy, New York
It's a fabric that lets water drain through but prevents the stone or asphalt from sinking down into the dirt. About the thickness of burlap. Different types, some are spun bonded, some woven, and some are plastic mesh. You sometimes see it used in leach fields to prevent dirt from settling down into the rock.
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rrenk
Posted 7/8/2017 17:55 (#6113368 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


east ohio
don't know about the diesel fuel, the best results I ever had was spraying hot tar on stockpile while loading out. also have had good results not adding anything. do it on a hot day. using a rubber tire loader works best. dozer grousers chew up the surface. roll in 4 to 6 in. lifts, a single drum with rubber drive tires will handle slopes better than double drum go 6ton or larger w\vib. a motor grader for the final pass makes a real nice job. then roll again.
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joe
Posted 7/8/2017 18:32 (#6113433 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?



May want to watch for water running over or through the millings and where that water goes. The oily sheen that goes with it likes to catch the attention of IDEM. I used to stockpile lots of it and always had to be aware of runoff.
I'm assuming you are getting them as they are milled and not out of a stockpile. You are way ahead if that is true. Much easier to work with.
Be prepared, level, roll and let the sun work on it. If the road was in decent shape prior to milling you will have a great product to work with.
Patching in the future will be a bit more difficult than just using crushed stone.
Share some pictures of your finished drive. Good luck!
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Dan Loehr
Posted 7/8/2017 18:49 (#6113459 - in reply to #6113433)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


Holland, Indiana (SW IN)
Yep fresh millings 3" cut off a state hyway they are doing a bunch really don't need 75 triaxle loads now but the price is right-- will probably stockpile some for a week or two? Or longer

Dan

Edited by Dan Loehr 7/8/2017 18:54
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frank l
Posted 7/8/2017 21:02 (#6113694 - in reply to #6113459)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


nc nebraska butte
If your doing that much ,get a grader to lay it down or a good box scaper .Get a packer we had a big one.If your doing a road or drive way have the lay it out with trucks.(meaning bellydump backup to last dump and go from there ,that way it is a consistent depth to start with.)Lots of good info above.
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joe
Posted 7/8/2017 21:04 (#6113696 - in reply to #6113459)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?



If you stockpile in the sunshine it may take some work to get them to ever spread nice again. Have had some stockpiled for years that had to be dug apart with a big excavator. Big pay loader couldn't bust it open. That's when a track machine of some type can kind of bust chunks and pack at the same time. You will figure it out.
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Red Cows
Posted 7/8/2017 21:17 (#6113719 - in reply to #6113459)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


SE SD
Some advice: don't store in a pile for a week and then try to spread it. When the mill grinds it off the highway it generates some heat in the process. The millings will be warm when delivered, if it's hot that day will be even hotter. The best thing to do is have everything ready with plenty of help when they are milling. When they bring it to you, spread it, roll it and keep going till your done. I worked around this stuff for years when I worked for an asphalt company. If the road they are milling has a lot of chip seal coatings on it, it will be even more sticky. I once piled up a huge pile off a 20 mile job when it was hot outside to be moved at a later date. When we moved it a month later, you could run an 80k lb payloader on top of the pile and never make a track. It came apart in big chunks and was loaded on side dumps. It was then run through a crusher to be used as recycle to add to mix. Even after it went through the crusher it set up hard enough we had to use an excavator to tear it apart.


In my opinion the best place for this stuff is put in low ground for a road or whatever and then cover with good gravel. We did put it on shoulders of a state highway delivered right from the mill but it was then covered with oil and chip sealed to keep it from flaking off. Hope this helps.........
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twraska
Posted 7/8/2017 23:39 (#6113963 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


Wallis, TX

Just be careful that you are getting the top millings, not from a repair job where they are cutting down to dirt to fix soft spots in the road.  I got the latter and might have well bought dirt, cause that is what is mostly was.  Never did set up and is still soft even after repeated attempts to pack it.

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graystonefarms
Posted 7/9/2017 04:48 (#6114047 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


Maryland
one thing I have learned, seems all millings are not the same. I have some that have set up perfect, like a paved driveway and some that go back to stone. My thoughts are, it depends on the oil content and the temperature mainly temperature. Best odds are to get a really hot day (90+ degrees), spread it as it is delivered, roll it, then spray diesel on it. I ended up making a spray bar to mount in my hitch receiver and ran the hose from my nurse tank back to feed the spray bar. The diesel helps to heat it up. The more those piles sit around the heavier machine you will need to break it up.
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Dan Loehr
Posted 7/9/2017 07:16 (#6114167 - in reply to #6114047)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


Holland, Indiana (SW IN)
Thanks for all the good advice--bet I'll have more questions

Love trying new things -Love all the help on NAT

Have a great Sunday --Dan

I'll post pics --Good or bad
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Rufframs
Posted 7/9/2017 12:27 (#6114804 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


Here's been my experience based on using them and hauling them for years. I didn't read all the replies so I hope I'm not too redundant.

All millings aren't the same. Millings from the interstate and asphalt roads that the DOT has chip sealed have more life in them than lesser travelled side streets and roads that don't see repaving as often. The best stuff is when they take-up the temporary crossovers. If it has big chunks in it, it doesn't have much life in it, although the chunks come in handy to stabilize soft spots or as a base. Make sure that they aren't milling dirt and asphalt together, such as when they're widening a rural road. That stuff is very marginal for a driveway.

A grader would be best but a good dozer operator that can hold a grade works fine. The millings fresh off the truck from the machine are the easiest to work. Millings don't tailgate well, especially with an aluminum body, steel is slightly better but don't expect much more than spot dumping. A ten ton single drum vibratory roller, to me, is the optimum way to compact it. That roller will also roll out most of the dozer cleat marks, especially on a hot day and handle hills better.

I never added diesel or any other solvent. I think that if the millings are that dead (dry) the amount of diesel, etc., you would have to add would be an environmental concern. Dry millings will spread and pack they just won't be as durable. In any case, the hotter the day the easier they are to work.

Here with our clay soil we put down an absolute minimum of 6 inches of millings over a good solid base. Eight or more is better. You need good side drainage and no soft spots caused by drainage problems. With enough runoff millings will wash, or in the cause of soft spots pump and produce potholes. Then the problem becomes how to fix the damage, which can be a job in itself since you just can't regrade the compacted millings as you can with a stone driveway.

Our driveway is 4600 feet uphill, downhill, around the hill. Over the years we've put about 60 loads of millings on about a third of it and it held up fairly well. Over the last few years it started breaking down especially on the hill where the feed trucks were travelling. We ended up with islands of compacted millings that were making it difficult to plow in the winter. Last fall I went over top of it with 2A sub-base limestone, what many call crusher run, using the existing millings "islands" as a grade benchmark. Nine months later and I'm real happy with how this has worked out and held up. I don't regret using the millings, they saved me money, it's just that the limestone is more maintainable.

You can stockpile millings but if they still have life (liquid asphalt) in them you better have the machine to work them because that pile can become pretty stiff quicker than you realize.





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2255Puller
Posted 7/10/2017 06:45 (#6116377 - in reply to #6113239)
Subject: RE: Asphalt milling rolling?


North Eastern Maryland
Have a paving company put the millings down with a paver and roll tight.
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