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Planting apple trees (video)
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WNC986
Posted 4/23/2017 13:33 (#5978272)
Subject: Planting apple trees (video)


Planting McIntosh Stayman Courtland and Golden Delicious on 4x14 spacing. First year with Auto steer and worked great.

https://youtu.be/27VUavDpvsg
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rosiesdad
Posted 4/23/2017 13:59 (#5978319 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)



Western-Central Lower Michigan
How do you keep the deer out of the orchard? Here you would have to put up 8' high woven wire.
The bucks wreck the trees during the rut..
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WNC986
Posted 4/23/2017 14:10 (#5978331 - in reply to #5978319)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Fortunately we don't have many deer in our area but we are starting see some around.
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Dodgefarmboy
Posted 4/23/2017 14:15 (#5978336 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Cool! Do you guys irrigate or water new plantings to get them going? If so how and for how long?

This is sure interesting to a corn and bean farmer!
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WNC986
Posted 4/23/2017 14:43 (#5978371 - in reply to #5978336)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


We normally don't have to irrigate. We just got over two inches of rain this weekend. We are thinking about setting a system on some future plantings.
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jrm1504
Posted 4/23/2017 23:44 (#5979316 - in reply to #5978336)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Naches, Wa
In Washington everything gets watered in. we water it to the mud stage to collapse air pockets.

Here, it is pretty common for there to be three irrigation systems: drip irrigation for getting trees established with fertigation several times a week, then undertree once established that doubles for frost protection and then an overtree system to help fruit quality on hot summer days to combat sunburn.

Our conditions are a lot different from others...we get eight inches of water and have more summer light than our trees can use.

seeing the pictures makes me want to go see my friends in Pennsylvania again.
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novaman
Posted 4/23/2017 14:25 (#5978352 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


ND
Do you thin them out after awhile? Four feet seems awful close.
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rollinsorchards
Posted 4/23/2017 14:41 (#5978370 - in reply to #5978352)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Garland Maine

The four foot spacing is likely to be managed as a tall spindle type of growing system. Essentially you want one straight trunk to the tree up to about 8 feet tall. You allow small limbs to grow out from the trunk and produce fruit for several years before they outgrow their space and get cut almost completely back to the trunk to grow again.

tall spindle apple trees

This sort of makes a "fruiting wall" or hedge and most new plantings are of a similar configuration for fast and efficient picking. It will allow partial mechanization of hand picking also like in this video.

https://youtu.be/HpySTOCG8Vc

The trees I have planted recently have been on similar spacing. The idea is to grow apples, not wood.

Widely spaced big old apple trees may produce 500 bushel per acre. Modern high density plantings are flirting with 2500 bushel per acre in some places.



Edited by rollinsorchards 4/23/2017 14:45
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cts backer
Posted 4/23/2017 15:09 (#5978409 - in reply to #5978370)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)



35 miles south of Houston,TX
Very interesting explanation. Thank you
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jrm1504
Posted 4/23/2017 23:33 (#5979312 - in reply to #5978370)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Naches, Wa
The Stanford team is doing some cool stuff towards mechanization.

https://youtu.be/27VUavDpvsg
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Haleiwa
Posted 4/23/2017 15:16 (#5978416 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)



West Chazy, New York

What tells the cart rider when to place a tree?

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WNC986
Posted 4/23/2017 15:40 (#5978450 - in reply to #5978416)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


The rider sets the tree on a door
When the GPS sends a signal the door drops to plant the tree.
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gee-haw
Posted 4/23/2017 17:06 (#5978539 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


southern middle TN
Very cool! Thanks for the video.
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Grasseed
Posted 4/23/2017 17:10 (#5978542 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)



Suver, Oregon
Cool.
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murphypat
Posted 4/23/2017 17:12 (#5978544 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


central mississippi
How before you get a crop from those trees?
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jrm1504
Posted 4/23/2017 23:26 (#5979307 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Naches, Wa
from a fellow apple grower...

That was interesting. We have been using deere gps to plant since 2008. GPS is the only way to plant trees. BUT, we have been still using a marker bar to mark where the trees go. As in, if our tree rows run north and south, we will run a series of marks east and west for each tree. In our case, that is a mark every 2ft. (we plant our trees at 10x2). The fellow on the planter then has to place the tree when the cross mark intersects the tree planter. Your system of the door that opens on queue is sweet. How did you set that up OR who set that up for you?

I would love to not have to cross mark.
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WNC986
Posted 4/24/2017 05:25 (#5979389 - in reply to #5979307)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Let's rewind back to 2013 we purchased a tree planter from Phil Brown welding. As an option we got the electronic tree spacing. It is the door that trips but was triggered by an electronic eye that tripped by the last tree planted. We found this to have to much variable in over all spacing. Fast forward to the past winter. We found several videos on YouTube of GPS systems that steers and spaces trees. One was a system Trimble had added to a citrus tree planter in Florida. We contacted them and they set us up with a dealer that installed the system. Now instead of the electronic eye sending the signal to the door, the GPS system sends it. Essentially the display lays the field off in a grid. When the planter crosses each line it fires a signal to the planter. The row spacing and tree spacing is all adjustable down to the inch.
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DanR
Posted 4/24/2017 12:03 (#5979925 - in reply to #5978272)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


SW Sask
This has been a fascinating thread for a wheat farmer.

Can you tell us more about orchard agriculture from a general point of view? For example - do you grow these new plants yourself, or do you get them from a nursery? How long before new plants produce fruit? How long before their production starts to decline? And how do you clean up an old stand of trees?

Thank you in advance. It is always interesting to see the wide variety of agronomics, management, machinery, etc that fits under the blanket term "agriculture".

danr
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ncapple
Posted 4/24/2017 12:27 (#5979962 - in reply to #5979925)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)



western North Carolina
We normally have our trees contract grown from several large nurseries. Because of the demand for trees, we order 3 years in advance of planting. We begin picking fruit in the 3rd season. All fruit is removed the first 2 years to allow the tree to grow and fill the space. Trees are removed after 20 years of age or earlier if the variety becomes out dated or unpopular. Removal is by pushing up everything with a dozer and burning.
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jrm1504
Posted 4/24/2017 15:38 (#5980146 - in reply to #5979925)
Subject: RE: Planting apple trees (video)


Naches, Wa
The Washington perspective...

Trees come from nurseries and tend to be contract grown. Because of the problem of getting rootstock, orders are placed two to three years ahead.

In our operation, we really don't like trees. They are pretty expensive; probably around $9.00 each. We like to do what are called sleeping eyes, where there is a dormant scion bud on a rootstock. They are probably half the cost, and at 2178 trees per acre it adds up. However, they are really tough to come by, so we have taken to growing our own nursery. We will line out the roots in the next week or so and then in August bud them to (most likely) Honeycrisp.

As to removal, we yank them out when they aren't economic any longer. That happens because:

1. Market shifts away from a variety. Red Delicious has seen this the last twenty years and will continue to decline. There is a new variety that is coming that should finally put the nail in the coffin.
2. Yield doesn't keep up. Washington state average yield a decade ago was probably 40 bins/ac (450-500bu). We now target more like 100 bins/ac for new plantings.
3. The block isn't labor efficient. Washington likes to lead the nation is minimum wage. It is now $11/hr. We just passed a new one to take it to $13.50 in the next few years. The smart money is on another referendum in 2020 to take it well past $15. However, our wages are quite a bit above minimum. Since there is a farm worker shortage, a lot participate in the H2a program, which puts the minimum at $13.37, so wages are north of that. Grat big old trees cost more to work in than small trees. So even if a block has decent production, if labor costs are high, it is a candidate for renewal.

How, we get rid of them depends. There is a lot of push, pile and burn. In Yakima county however, that can be difficult because of regulation of air quality, so there is a fair amount that gets put into tub grinders.
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