Posted 3/12/2017 10:31 (#5893904) Subject: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Iowa
I've been really thinking hard about an IVT to put on the baler and other misc activities, but I'm not convinced on the reliability of JDs IVT. I read on here a lot of problems about IVT and have two separate neighbors have Deere put two new transmissions in their less than year old tractors, one was a 6 series and one was a 7.
I know a few guys who run CVTs and I can't recall on here reading any complaints on Case CVT.
Is Cases CVT more reliable or does Deere just have a lot more IVTs out there than Case has CVTs so you're gonna hear more about it?
Not color conscience at all just want the best tractor and so far I'm leaning red..good decision?
Posted 3/12/2017 10:50 (#5893944 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
The IVT has been out longer. We have quite a few CVT's out here in hay country and don't seem to have any issues to speak of. One thing that will cause a CVT failure is cheap hydraulic oil. The CVT was the reason for the change from Hy-Tran Ultra to Hy-Tran Ultraction, Ultra was not heavy enough to protect the CVT. I sell Mobil products through my business and one of the reasons is their 424 tractor hydraulic fluid. It is the one hydraulic oil I will replace Hy-Tran with EXCEPT in the CVT. It might do the job fine but even Mobil engineering isn't willing to say for sure it will stand up in a CVT.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:05 (#5893973 - in reply to #5893951) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Ontario
Have a JD 6 series ivt. 3700 hrs on it with no troubles. It's our main tillage tractor so it gets worked. I think the cause of problems for them is poor maintenance . I would never go back to a powershift. For spraying and running vegetable planters/harvesters it's the best.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:09 (#5893983 - in reply to #5893951) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
A little mixing wont't hurt, but yeah it could be an issue for guys that trade hydraulic equipment between tractors a lot. The difference is Ultra was a 10 and Ultraction is a 10w-30. The 10 wt won't stand up to the shearing of the CVT.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:25 (#5894014 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
The Internet
ricksitzmann - 3/12/2017 16:31 I Not color conscience at all just want the best tractor and so far I'm leaning red..good decision?
In that case, you need to have a look at Agco tractors, be they Challenger, Massey or Fendt. They would be my first point of call of a CVT/IVT in an agricultural tractor.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:32 (#5894031 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
We've got many CVT Pumas and Mid-Range Magnums out anymore(as well as their blue sisters the T7s and T6s). First off, the LWB Puma and mid-range Magnum use more or less the same transmission; while the SWB Pumas and Maxxums more or less use the same transmission.
As far as mechanical problems with the CVTs, the biggest has been the snap rings that hold the shift forks to the shift rails coming loose on the large frame CVTs. This causes the shift fork to not fully engage the synchronizers, allowing the transmission to not operate in certain ranges. The one that seems to give the most problem is the synchro for road gear will not engage-the customer notices that his max. road speed is much slower. This was fixed by using roll pins to lock the shift forks to the shift rails. This was changed in 2012-2013 production sometime, so this is a problem on older(all Tier 3 and early TierIVa) Pumas and MRMs. To make the repair, you have to remove the hydro unit/side cover assy. on the RH side of the transmission. On a Tier 3 machines its a pretty easy repair; on a TierIVa machine you have to remove all the SCR system to get access to the cover.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:38 (#5894042 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Extreme Northwest MO
We had a 7520 with IVT and now have a 145 Case CVT and a 225 Magnum CVT. I'm a green guy myself, but I have to admit that I prefer the Case IH CVT over John Deere IVT. Both transmissions were bulletproof for us. They pulled potato diggers for most many of their hours.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:55 (#5894082 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
NE SD
We've had many tractors will with ivts. Only one to give us problems was a 7730 whole tractor was a problem child and that scared us away from ivts for a while then we got a 7330 and an 8530 with a ivts and got us back into them since they worked great. we mow run a 6155rand a 7230it4 and an 8285r with ivt and no problems. Deere's has been out since 2001ish and case was 2009ish. So deere's has been out a lot longer. Cases works fine if ran a couple but I do believe deere's is more refined since they've been out for almost twice as long.. but that might just be my bias
Posted 3/12/2017 13:20 (#5894298 - in reply to #5894241) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Ontario
Have around 3000 hours on a CIH puma with CVT. First few years had to buy special grade hydraulic oil but now Hytran meets spec for all tractors so once again only need to stock 1 oil. Very reliable tractor and next tractor purchase will be with a CVT again. I have also driven a 8335R with IVT and did not like the way it operated. Controls did not feel comfortable and the speed adjustment was annoying.
Posted 3/12/2017 13:54 (#5894379 - in reply to #5894298) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Central Wisconsin
I think it is what you get used to. I have JD IVTs and like them. I have driven Case CVT and think the controls are uncomfortable and the whining noise of the trans is annoying
Posted 3/12/2017 14:31 (#5894476 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
South Dakota
the history of the CVT or IVT transmission.
The first CVT transmission was used I think by the Germans in the tanks during World War II. After that it got shelved until Fent tractors started using it. When Fent and Agco joined forces it was then put in the Agco tractors. after that JD bought the rights to also produce the IVT transmission. Then Case IH came with their version of the CVT a few years later. The ankle system uses a hydraulic motor but not hydrostatic plea driven. The JD IVT is a two range system with clutch packs to my understanding. And the Case IH CVT is a four range system with clutch packs. I cannot explain how they work.
Posted 3/12/2017 16:59 (#5894816 - in reply to #5894601) Subject: IH hydros
NC IA
It's too bad that IH/CIH didn't continue to develop/improve upon the large frame hydrostats- (826-3488). I mean, look at todays combines- 400+ hp. I understand the concept of CVT/IVTs from an efficiency standpoint, but in the 100 hp platform the old IH hydros couldn't be beat. Durable, reliable, zero electronics. Not to mention todays oil is no doubt better-- I got 7000 hrs out of the original hydro on my 2188 with yearly Hy-tran servicing. A majority of those hours were at 100* temps on the wheat harvest.
Posted 3/12/2017 17:29 (#5894880 - in reply to #5894816) Subject: RE: IH hydros
The modern combines aren't running 400+ hp through the hydros though. The thrashing system is using the majority of it. It would take incredibly high pressures and there would be a massive amount of heat generated running high hp through hydros like that.
Posted 3/12/2017 17:51 (#5894922 - in reply to #5894880) Subject: RE: IH hydros
NC IA
Yes I understand that, but take 60,000+ lbs (weight of machine, header, grain tank) and go up a hill or soft conditions, that's still some serious power getting transmitted via hydrostatic.
Posted 3/12/2017 18:35 (#5895033 - in reply to #5894476) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Depends which CNH CVT you are talking about. The large chassis Magnums use 4 clutch packs to provide 4 ranges. However, the LWB Pumas and Mid-Range Magnum CVTs use a combination of 3 synchronizers and 2 clutch packs to achieve 4 forward ranges and 2 reverse ranges. The SWB Pumas and Maxxum CVTs use a combination of 2 synchronizers and 2 clutch packs to achieve 2 forward ranges and 1 reverse range.
CNH got a lot of their CVT technology from the Steyr line of tractors over in Europe several years ago(early 2000s).
Posted 3/12/2017 19:31 (#5895199 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
A corn field somewhere on planet vulcan
fendt has two ranges and you need to stop or 'trick' it to change them, so if you are going slow and you want to go fast - stop and push the button and keep going, if you want to slow down and start field work you need to stop and push the button for low speed. CNH has 4 ranges so instead of stopping to push the button you have a clutch pack. I am not sure but I think the closer you are to the top of the range in a cvt the more efficent you are. I will take the clutch pack over the fendt push botton, have run both love them both but they are just simply different.
Edit, sorry to the op, i dont know anything about the jd ivt
Posted 3/12/2017 19:37 (#5895222 - in reply to #5893904) Subject: RE: CIH CVT vs JD IVT
Shelburne Ontario Canada
Go with a fendt if u like changing trannys every 5-8500 hrs very very few making it to more than that HERE. The bottom end high pressure seal just dont take it if u pull back on stick to stop a load with out braking thus putting reverse pressure on seals . All other brands get past that by using the clutches or syncro versions . And alot of guys forget to shift to low to start off heavy loads. Case and deere shift on the go therefore not have that prob.
Case ih and Steyr marryed in 1999 i am led to believe.
Cvt came out soon after that in europe in a cvx tractor wich was not marketed in north america.
CIH CVT vs JD IVT
