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Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck
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bleedred
Posted 2/27/2017 19:30 (#5867272)
Subject: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck



East Central Ia		Thinking about trading my gooseneck with folding ramps for a hydraulic dovetail version.

The dovetails look like the ramp portion is longer which would make loading equipment easier.

But my biggest issue is loading my mini excavator. It's pretty big for a small hoe at 18-19k lbs.

If I move it further than a mile or two I have a neighbor haul it with his detach low boy. But for moving from farm to farm at most 3-4 miles, which is most common for me I like to use my heavy gooseneck. My trailer I have now has two 12k lbs dual wheel axles.

My issue is loading and unloading, it's not a low pro trailer either. But when I load it let's the back of the trailer squat something terrible and it wants to lift my trucks rear end.

I have even had it squat bad enough that the ramps want to fold up. It really needs something under the frame behind the rear axles to hold the weight while loading/unloading.

Looking at some videos of people loading tractors and other heavy equipment on hydraulic dovetail trailers on YouTube it looks like the extra length of the dovetail and having it all one piece bridges the weight much better.

I watched one load a 130hp Case tractor (12-14k lbs I assume) and it didn't even look like the truck moved.

Any suggestions?
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illinifarmer1
Posted 2/27/2017 19:40 (#5867302 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


Illinois		Loading excavating with steel tracks over the back of a taller trailer usually doesn't end up well. One wet day, or muddy track day and you slide off the side. Using a detach trailer is the safest way to move steel tracked equipment. Either buy a detach trailer, or buddy up to your lowboy guy. It sounds like some local guys charge $100 / move. You cant afford to own your own detach for that.
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dvswia
Posted 2/27/2017 21:07 (#5867549 - in reply to #5867302)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


sw corner ia.		Fyi.. a hoe can slide right off a detach..
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illinifarmer1
Posted 2/27/2017 21:18 (#5867570 - in reply to #5867549)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


Illinois		Sure it can. I have ridden excavators and dozers off the sides of lowboys a few times when they have wet feet and loading on a slope.
Fyi,... its a lot shorter ride down on a detach than sliding off the side of a ramp style lowboy over the rear tandems.

Edited by illinifarmer1 2/27/2017 21:22
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bleedred
Posted 2/27/2017 21:58 (#5867676 - in reply to #5867302)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck



East Central Ia		I am well aware of the joys of tracked equipment sliding around.

These ramps are inverted angle iron so my tracks are pretty stable on them.

Whatever i get i will probably add some type of cleats to help with traction.

I am always able able to either load/unload on the driveway or flat area, otherwise i just do it on the side of the gravel road.

Almost always close enough to use a barnyard though.

I have access to 3 lowboys around nearby but its just a pain in the butt unless i catch them while they are moving something and going by.

Edited by bleedred 2/27/2017 21:58
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Trent2520
Posted 2/27/2017 19:43 (#5867312 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck



Statesville, NC		Do your folding ramps not have a leg to keep the trailer from going down so far? A properly designed ramp has a leg at the hinge end, where the base centers the hinge and carries the weight while loading and unloading. It works best set about 3 or 4 inches off the ground when unloaded, so when it's loaded there's a little clearance to fold the ramp back up. If the leg is too far back up under the ramp, it causes the ramp to come back up as the load comes off the ramp onto the trailer. A lot of ramps just aren't designed right. It should not be letting the trailer squat so much and lifting the truck a lot. A little bit is normal.
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WisTreemover
Posted 2/27/2017 19:49 (#5867330 - in reply to #5867312)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


East Central wisconsin		+1 not quite clear about what your current ramp is? Is this a straight flatbed with long (10') ramps now?
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bleedred
Posted 2/27/2017 21:51 (#5867665 - in reply to #5867330)
Subject: This is my trailer...



East Central Ia
WisTreemover - 2/27/2017 18:49

+1 not quite clear about what your current ramp is? Is this a straight flatbed with long (10') ramps now?


This is my trailer.

http://assets.pjtrailers.com/images/trailers/fd/fd-classic-flatdeck...
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WisTreemover
Posted 2/28/2017 07:07 (#5868008 - in reply to #5867665)
Subject: RE: This is my trailer...


East Central wisconsin		Looks like a decent trailer. Mine just has a foot under back of ramp. That angles back under trailer slightly to keep it up while loading. But could use a block also.
But from the safety of loading standpoint. I've seen a number of contractor modifications for safer excavator loading. One guy claimed it real important to keep a sharp edge at meeting point of beavertail and flat deck. So as excavator tips from beavertail down onto deck it doesn't slip. He added a peice of steel there, I think it was a 1"square stock? Other things I saw was "side guides "added on, even saw one guy put loading guide (bolted 3"angle iron to beavertail) towards middle of beavertail. It guided against inner track side. That was for machines to wide to put guides on outside edge of trailer. Good luck.
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bleedred
Posted 2/27/2017 21:54 (#5867672 - in reply to #5867312)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck



East Central Ia		My ramps i would say are more like 6" off the ground in a flat driveway.

They are basically a triangle.

I dont know if its the trailer rocking back and forth that gets them to start folding up while unloading. Its definitely worse if im not on a totally flat area.
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EMFarmer
Posted 2/27/2017 22:23 (#5867720 - in reply to #5867672)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


Western Wisconsin		Blocking the trailer wheels so they don't roll will help, but it still wont be perfect. If the money is available I would trade for a hyd dove/hyd jack trailer. Adding the jacks is a no brainer and they seem to load so easily. Personally I would get a Diamond C Fleetneck trailer, they have the best paint IMO and the dovetail lock is so simple compared to others. I don't like that most trailers with hyd doves are resting on the cylinders or pins when locked. Diamond C just has a block that slides out of the way to load, and back in for transport.
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Trent2520
Posted 2/28/2017 09:24 (#5868285 - in reply to #5867672)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck



Statesville, NC		I think the problem is the ramp base is too high, and the long flat wedge can be supported by a high spot in the middle, which is not good. I would take the ramp and add a piece of 3x3x1/4" wall square tube and go across the ramp at the hinge end. It needs to be at the very end, maybe even hanging over the edge of the base 1 inch or so. This will make the ramp more solid and keep it from rocking, and keep the back of the trailer from going down so much. If you can handle the ramps ok, and don't have the money to burn, I wouldn't trade trailers.
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Tfox
Posted 2/27/2017 22:38 (#5867752 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


If you have the coin buy a hydraulic dove

If you are just trying to find a better way. Get some 6x6 blocks and throw under the rear bumper of trailer and chock tires. Should stabilize loading and unloading.

I had the same issue of ramps kicking out.

After I started throwing blocks under the rear bumper of my skid trailer I can now load a T300 plus heavy attachment onto a 16+2 hooked to a 1/2 ton and don't even give it a second thought. I routinely haul it 4-5 miles on that trailer and 1/2 ton. Any further and I do hook it to 3/4 ton.

Guessing T300 plus attachment is pushing 12K payload.

If I can load 12K onto a 14K trailer hooked to a 1/2 ton I would think you can load 18K onto a 24K trailer hooked to 3/4 or 1 ton.



Edited by Tfox 2/27/2017 22:40
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jmiller
Posted 2/27/2017 23:28 (#5867805 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


West central Ohio		If your ramps don't have a support leg, put some blocks under rear of trailer. Allow for room for trailer to settle under load or won't be able to remove after loaded. Could use a hydraulic jack.
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slowzuki
Posted 2/28/2017 07:26 (#5868042 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


New Brunswick, Canada		We always used blocks under the rear.

Now have a full tilt deck. Much better but still steep to load sometimes. Only has 8000 lb oil bath axles, wish it had the 10k singles.





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Birchcreek79
Posted 2/28/2017 07:40 (#5868061 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


MN		What are you using for a truck? I've pulled similar trailers with my f350 and when the trailer is sitting how I want it the ramps are only 2-3" off the ground empty. Can you adjust your gooseneck coupler down to get the tail closer to the ground?
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bleedred
Posted 2/28/2017 08:15 (#5868139 - in reply to #5868061)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck



East Central Ia
Birchcreek79 - 2/28/2017 06:40

What are you using for a truck? I've pulled similar trailers with my f350 and when the trailer is sitting how I want it the ramps are only 2-3" off the ground empty. Can you adjust your gooseneck coupler down to get the tail closer to the ground?


I've got a 14' Ram 2500. Have also pulled it with a 03' Chevy 2500, and 01' Ford 250 so it's very possible that it's not set up ideal for my truck.
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hunterjoe
Posted 2/28/2017 07:41 (#5868062 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: Has anyone even used a hydraulic dovetail?


MO		We have a 32ft with a hydraulic dovetail and will never go back to ramps. Joy of having hydralic dovetail is more than likely it will have hydralic jacks. When you have a flat tire.. you don't need a jack, just lower the dovetail and pick up the whole trailer (if it's empty). Yes they cost more but what's your back and fingers worth. The hydralic dove tail does create a bridge that puts very little positive or negative weight on the truck while loading. We load our 6036 skytrak all the time with no problems (rubber tires yes but also 22k with filled tires). Ever haul hay? Don't have to load the last 2 bales on the ramps or when you're hauling anything else you have a full flat trailer. And you also have a full ramp to drive up if you ever load anything that is a different width than what you loaded last. Also sometimes loading cars you can't get them over the bend without bottoming out. Just drive them up til the front tire is on the trailer and raise the dovetail until it's flat. The list goes on and on.

Edited by hunterjoe 2/28/2017 07:49
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Redrat
Posted 2/28/2017 10:40 (#5868467 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


Southeast mn		On my gooseneck we added support legs I have no problem loading a 14000 lb excavator or 13000 lb dozer when they are down or even my skid loader.



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Allis4ever
Posted 2/28/2017 11:47 (#5868606 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: just buy the hydraulic tail


central iowa
bleedred - 2/27/2017 19:30

Thinking about trading my gooseneck with folding ramps for a hydraulic dovetail version.

The dovetails look like the ramp portion is longer which would make loading equipment easier.

But my biggest issue is loading my mini excavator. It's pretty big for a small hoe at 18-19k lbs.

If I move it further than a mile or two I have a neighbor haul it with his detach low boy. But for moving from farm to farm at most 3-4 miles, which is most common for me I like to use my heavy gooseneck. My trailer I have now has two 12k lbs dual wheel axles.

My issue is loading and unloading, it's not a low pro trailer either. But when I load it let's the back of the trailer squat something terrible and it wants to lift my trucks rear end.

I have even had it squat bad enough that the ramps want to fold up. It really needs something under the frame behind the rear axles to hold the weight while loading/unloading.

Looking at some videos of people loading tractors and other heavy equipment on hydraulic dovetail trailers on YouTube it looks like the extra length of the dovetail and having it all one piece bridges the weight much better.

I watched one load a 130hp Case tractor (12-14k lbs I assume) and it didn't even look like the truck moved.

Any suggestions?




All this debate and the simple answer is buy the hydraulic tail. I did and will never go back. Much nicer in EVERY possible loading scenario.

You will never regret it

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luvfarmin
Posted 2/28/2017 18:28 (#5869309 - in reply to #5867272)
Subject: RE: Hydraulic dovetail vs ramps on gooseneck


Make sure and get electric jacks on the front too while your at it. I thought they were kind of unnecessary but it is so handy for unhooking on uneven ground/lining up the ball if you are close side to side etc. Don't remember the cost but worth every penny if you are already going to have electric over hydraulics for your dove tail.
The one and only downside of the electric dove tail in my opinion is it does have a lot of overhang over your back axles so the back does swing around wide on a real sharp turn and if you have to have a load towards the rear to get everything on the trailer it does put a lot of weight on the rear. Example just today I hauled our 7230 with 20ft batwing mower on a 35ft ezhaul with the hydraulic dovetail and Front of tractor was touching the neck and mower tires were just on the very back of the dovetail and it seemed like there was a lot of weight over the trailer axles because of the substantial over hang because of the dove tail and the axles being further forward....would I go back to ramps??? No way!!
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