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Farmer8920

Posted 7/2/2016 06:13 (#5386593)
Subject: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

Central, WI

I thought it was a crazy question at first but I figured what the heck and thought I would ask all the fellow NAT'ers. My neighbor stopped by and got me thinking about it yesterday. He has a smaller 4wd on his tile plow right now, about 25,000lbs, but needs a little extra pull sometimes to get thru tough spots when going over 4 feet laying 6" tile. This is on mostly flat land, non-worked corn stubble and hay field ground and ideal dry tile conditions. He has a 65,000 lbs base operating weight front end loader with an 855 Cummins Big Cam in it. He could add more weight inside the 7 yard bucket if needed also. He has 29.5R 25 rubber on it with very deep tread, almost new L3 rubber. Could a guy use this loader to help pull the plow thru tough spots without the worry of it getting stuck on mainly dry ground or hurting something on the loader over time?

I found a previous post about Sandusky Tile in Michigan using a larger Clark/Michigan loader with clamp-on 20.8x38 duals added onto each axle. I never saw a picture of it but figured it could be done and if he got real ambitious he could use triples and maybe even pull the plow directly with the loader. It would have more than enough hydraulic capacity (92gpm at 3100psi) to run the plow hydraulics and it would be ideal to ease into start holes using a loader tranny. He would have to add a third valve possibly. 65,000 lbs and considering it is a piece of construction equipment it should hold up a lot better than a similar weighted ag tractor over time. I told him to not call me when it gets stuck because there is no tractor big enough around the local area to pull him out..LOL

Edit: found this photo but not sure if it the one from Sandusky Tile mentioned previously.

Edited by Farmer8920 7/2/2016 09:08

(Zor tile plow on wheel loader.jpg)

Attachments
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Zor tile plow on wheel loader.jpg (63KB - 305 downloads)

Fingers77

Posted 7/2/2016 06:20 (#5386600 - in reply to #5386593)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Transmission most likely won't like it. It will probably get warm/overheat. Ours doesn't like running in soft field conditions. They are designed to work on hard packed ground. It would probably work to pull through the hard spots, but I doubt for pulling a plow full time. If it were don't, that would be the main worry IMO.

hillfarmer

Posted 7/2/2016 06:26 (#5386607 - in reply to #5386600)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

too bad it is not a 65,000 excavator

they do a very good job as a tow vehicle

Gerard

Posted 7/2/2016 06:28 (#5386610 - in reply to #5386593)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Woodham, Ontario

Those tires will cause lots of compaction and have very little grip. Might work if all the tires were swapped out for big metric duals like a newer 4WD might have...

gpsdude

Posted 7/2/2016 07:35 (#5386707 - in reply to #5386610)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

NE South Dakota Clark, SD

Use it to help pull not on the plow. Every loader I have run has very poor hydraulics at low RPM. I am not sure, but they might be open center. As mentioned above watch Trans heat. I have had a payloader as part of a train pulling in some frozen ground. Beware of soft or wet ground.

Farmer8920

Posted 7/2/2016 09:04 (#5386891 - in reply to #5386707)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Central, WI

I can definitely see where a heavy wheel loader will work much better in frozen conditions. A whole lot more ground pressure and no track slippage to worry about stopping the operation. I think his wheel loader is a 4 speed and runs very slow in 1st gear. Not sure on the hydraulic pressure though but will be something we have to check.

E718

Posted 7/2/2016 09:17 (#5386917 - in reply to #5386891)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Sac & Story county IA

I have seen tile plowing on frozen ground work excellent on areas that there would be no chance to do other times. Just the right amount of frozen to get traction and support machine over wet areas. But only for a day or so. Even hours. Not something a person can count on or wait for, though.

E718

Posted 7/2/2016 07:49 (#5386733 - in reply to #5386593)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Sac & Story county IA

The 830 Caterpillar scraper was notoriously unreliable. Same power train as the 850 loader. Must have been something about backing up every 100 yards and getting oil on both sides of gear teeth on the loader. The DW20 scrapers would break tiles very easily. Too much weight per square inch out in a field.

BOGTROTTER

Posted 7/2/2016 08:33 (#5386821 - in reply to #5386733)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Kingston,Mi

I may have been the original source of that post/reply on the use of a Clark/Michigan loader. I have slides and can't scan them to post, but these slides were taken in Dec. 1975 across the road from my farm when the neighbor hired Sanilac Tile or Sanilac Drain and Tile to tile 40 acres. I believe the machine was a 175 with a Detroit Diesel engine. Russ Hall was the owner of the company and had modified the loader to a purpose built tile plow. They reversed the controls in the cab so that the normal movement was engine forward, removed the loader boom and replaced it with the tile plow boom. This unit was in operation for many years in the Thumb, laying several million feet per year. The slides I have show the "Gentle Giant" on loader tires, I may have taken slides of it later on the tractor tire set-up but they would be in the slide file at the Conservation District. The tile installation job across the road was several days prior to Christmas 1975 and they were tilting up frozen slabs of clay loam as large as a card table and 8 to 12 inches thick. The final job of the season was a few days later and 3 miles away. The frost was deeper, so they pulled the Gentle Giant most all of the way with a IHC 4166 or 4366.

Must have done a decent job since both farms drain well 41 years later.

Farmer8920

Posted 7/2/2016 08:58 (#5386876 - in reply to #5386821)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Central, WI

Is this the "Gentle Giant" you were speaking of? I came across it doing a search for Sandusky Tile. I can definitely see where a heavy wheel loader will work much better in frozen conditions. A whole lot more ground pressure and no track slippage to worry about. It appears chains were added to the duals also in this photo. I can not make out the model of the loader but it looks to be a 80-100K machine.

Edited by Farmer8920 7/2/2016 09:00

(Zor tile plow on wheel loader.jpg)

Attachments
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Zor tile plow on wheel loader.jpg (63KB - 101 downloads)

BOGTROTTER

Posted 7/2/2016 09:39 (#5386973 - in reply to #5386876)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Kingston,Mi

That is a picture of the Gentle Giant, it placed about 5 to 6 million feet of tile per year in the 1970's and into the 1980's, possibly longer. It would work nearly every day for 30 to 35 weeks, another tile operator in Sandusky used at least 1 Big Bud in the 500 horse power range plus there was at least 1 Steiger that was built with a Krac plow, it was specified by Kraft Tiling of Pigeon Michigan. Those 3 operators all were in Sandusky Michigan plus additional operators about every 15 to 20 miles with similar rigs on Big Buds, Steigers or Cat dozers.

thumb farmer

Posted 7/2/2016 14:07 (#5387364 - in reply to #5386973)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Port Austin Mi.

Did Paul Maynard have the Big Bud on the tile plow

BOGTROTTER

Posted 7/2/2016 15:15 (#5387460 - in reply to #5387364)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Kingston,Mi

Yes, it was Paul Maynard who had the Big Bud tile plow in Sandusky and I think he may have had a second one also. I changed tires on 2 Big Buds at Bauer's AC dealership in Reese (wheels did not interchange between a 400 and a 500 size Big Bud, different stud count) and he wanted Firestone loggers on the 500 or 550. A couple months later I went to the Bauer AC dealership in Sandusky to swap out Ag. tires for loggers on a second Big Bud and found it sitting on timber cradles. The store said they had been told to ship the 8 tires and wheels back to Montana and new tires and wheels with mounted loggers were being sent to replace them. Did not miss that tire change at all. I think Bauer is running one of the Big Buds on a tile plow yet, Paul Montei and his sons had a Big Bud with a detachable tile plow for their own use. It pulled apart a 13 bottom flex plow at the joint

hillfarmer

Posted 7/2/2016 15:44 (#5387501 - in reply to #5387460)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Dan Huber also had a big bud 500 hp

paul had his finals updated to "Clarks" before Huber did

Edited by hillfarmer 7/2/2016 17:40

thumb farmer

Posted 7/2/2016 16:00 (#5387523 - in reply to #5387460)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Port Austin Mi.

I thought it was paul that did some tiling for a friend in bad axe, also remember monti's having the big bud with the big plow. they had quite a bit of land around us for a couple years.

pat-michigan

Posted 7/6/2016 21:00 (#5396082 - in reply to #5387523)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

Thumb of Michigan

Not 100% sure, but I think Baurs are running Montei's Bud. Bought it at their sale if I'm remembering correctly. John Tomlison has a Bud with a Krac plow for sale, not sure what its history is.

hd 21

Posted 7/4/2016 07:35 (#5390379 - in reply to #5386876)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor

NW OH

I worked behind one that came here in WCOH in 1988. It was dualled up with oversize tractor tires at the time. Yes compaction is an issue.
It was sold and went to Bowling Green OH. Seen it once driving thru.

Dodgefarmboy

Posted 7/2/2016 09:16 (#5386911 - in reply to #5386593)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

I work in a gravel pit for my "real" job we have three cat loaders all 980's you would boil the transmission fluid in no time on those as they can get hot in about a half hour of really hard digging.

CIH7777

Posted 7/2/2016 10:47 (#5387069 - in reply to #5386911)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

A guy would think all loaders have oil coolers large enough to cool the tranny fluid over long periods of time. Are those early or late model 980's?

I have not been around gravel but digging sand and silage for several hours straight with 80 and 90's Dresser and Komatsu loaders have never given me any issue. Maybe better transmission coolers were added to newer loaders.

papadon

Posted 7/2/2016 18:43 (#5387726 - in reply to #5387069)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

I can't offer experience but I would think the largest lgp equipped track tractors for soft conditions or one of the very large cat crawlers --d-11 or something equivalent would be an excellent unit to tile with.

Dodgefarmboy

Posted 7/2/2016 18:53 (#5387743 - in reply to #5387069)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

Two are 980G series Two's and one is a 980H the G's are the ones who will give issues at times with trannys getting hot only when trying to get a full bucket in really tight material. Both G's have 25k+ hours so maybe the transmission is on the way out who knows....

Edit sand and silage is nothing compared to trying to fill a 10 yard bucket with Class 5 recycled concrete that's been on the pile for a year talk about hard digging!

Edited by Dodgefarmboy 7/2/2016 18:55

Farmer8920

Posted 7/3/2016 06:27 (#5388290 - in reply to #5387743)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

Central, WI

Funny to mention that but I have couple local guys running 966g's. One is Series II. Tranny on both of them had to be replaced around 22K hours due to overheating and taking out seals inside of it. The culprit was the oil cooler not cooling properly as the oil going to it was not pre-filtered and plugged up the cooler over time with metal shavings and what not else. The mechanic said CAT had an update to correct it but it was not a warranty issue as it only showed up on higher houred loaders.

Rawleigh

Posted 7/6/2016 12:22 (#5395179 - in reply to #5386593)
Subject: RE: Heavy Wheel Loader used as a Tile Plow Pull Tractor (pic)

White Stone, Virginia

A logging skidder might be a good platform to build one on.

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