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Sidedress question
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BobinIL
Posted 2/17/2015 08:25 (#4392302)
Subject: Sidedress question



Danville, Illinois
What is the best option for side dressing NH3? Can I run a knife every other row using a double rate or should I run a knife in every row and run 1/2 rate in the guess rows which would double up each pass giving a full rate in the guess rows? I am considering buying my own toolbar and trying to decide how many knives I need to follow an 8 row planter. I am thinking it will take 9 knives with 1/2 rate on the outside two. or use 7 knives and put 1.5 rate on the outside two or run 4 knives and run double rate on all 4.
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steelguitar
Posted 2/17/2015 08:53 (#4392385 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Dougherty, IA
I am looking into the same thing. From my research it looks like a 9 knife bar with 1/2 rate on outsides is the best. Once again, only research as I have just started kicking the idea around of sidedress NH3.
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Cardinal_Farms
Posted 2/17/2015 09:28 (#4392473 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Central Iowa

If you want to run on 60" centers run 5 knives. The middle 3 would have 2 lines and the outside 2 would have 1. By running 5 knives you can avoid running knives in the wheel tracks, assuming your tractor is set on 60" centers.

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pupdaddy12003
Posted 2/17/2015 11:56 (#4392807 - in reply to #4392473)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



NW Central Ohio
..the 9 knife works fine with splitters on the outside 2 rows on an 8 row machine. Your problem will be turning with a wagon behind you if you have a MFWD tractor. I used to pull 5 shanks and 60" spacing....problem was, the next spring there was all these lines through my field where there was excessive nitrogen that hadn't been used. Maybe I should have turned it down a bit??? 160 units side dress with 25 on at planting? Ground capable of 200 bushel corn year in and year out???
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lancef53
Posted 2/17/2015 12:14 (#4392865 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Portland, ND
I use 17 knives to dress 16-30" rows. I split the outside knives to provide half rate. Seems to work good. I need to run duals on the tractor, and it drives down more than I would like.

Hopefully you wouldn't need duals with 8 rows, otherwise you will be driving down lots of corn.
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Barker
Posted 2/17/2015 12:23 (#4392885 - in reply to #4392865)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


WC Indiana
Same here. 17 knife bar and 1/2 rate outside.
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Dirk Diggler
Posted 2/17/2015 12:26 (#4392893 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


West Lafayette IN
Tri State Fertilizer NH3 knife spacing study. It's old, but probably still applies.

Edited by Dirk Diggler 2/17/2015 12:27




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DC swIL
Posted 2/17/2015 14:29 (#4393156 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


What is the best way to achieve the half rate on the outside knives? Just a simple T fitting off the manifold? Or something more involved? I am looking to trade applicators from 11 to 13 knife and do the same thing.
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Ron..NE ILL..10/48
Posted 2/17/2015 19:52 (#4393827 - in reply to #4393156)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



Chebanse, IL.....

I think simplest is to tee one outlet at the manifold & run  1 hose from each outlet of that tee to each outer end knife....which needs to be a double-tube knife. Don't tee into the hose already feeding that knife.

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deerecraig
Posted 2/17/2015 14:34 (#4393170 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Northwest Indiana
I side dress behind an 8 row planter with a 9 shank bar. I run half rate on the outside knives by putting a tee in the manifold. Get along just fine.
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NEILFarmer
Posted 2/17/2015 16:38 (#4393356 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Morris, IL
Bob, we setup a 13 shank for 12 row side dress NH3 last year. In theory i think it is best way to go, 100% even application. That said there are disadvantages compared to a skip row or 11 shank. #1, if your rows drift at all it can be a nightmare and sometimes extra loose dirt can cause problems #2, anytime you get off the row your taking all 12 rows out #3, it pulls 1.5 times harder and even if you have the power it's a job i like to have overpowered so it's not pulling you around. Funny i did compare to relative running skip row on newer JD side by side with our 13 shank on good old 8940 and we were burning same amount of fuel.

That all said i'm still happy with our bar, i like the job it does and never have to worry about one plant not getting as much as another. So all the above considered a 9 shank would go a nice job for you. If i was setting up a skip row i'd consider a 5 shank if your rows are strait, advantage is NH3 strips are never driven on with common 60" NH3 tank. If not either 7 or 4 shank. I would consider running SD mole knifes on most rows but in the tire tracks put regular mole knifes, i run the vapor on the outside dual tractor track with regular mole knife. For me by the time side dressing comes along i've driven in the same path 2-3 times so that aggressive knife helps. I'd also recommend a gauge tree to make sure you never plug a shank. First picture is quick little drawing i put together and second is gauge tree i setup. Email works if your looking for more details.




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ollie1983
Posted 2/17/2015 17:01 (#4393409 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



South West UK
Don't apply nitrogen in the autumn! We aren't allowed to do that here and we wouldn't except on very backward canola crops. You put nitrogen on when the soil and weather means the crop is actively growing.
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nchobbyfarm
Posted 2/17/2015 17:13 (#4393435 - in reply to #4393409)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Eastern North Carolina
Ollie, side dressing is the term we use for putting nitrogen beside the crop row during its growing season.

Banding or deep banding is the term used for placing nutrients in the ground in the fall or spring prior to the crop being planted. Some areas have soils that will hold nitrogen that long, but the Southeast US is generally not one of those.

Edited by nchobbyfarm 2/17/2015 17:17
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ollie1983
Posted 2/17/2015 17:25 (#4393458 - in reply to #4393435)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



South West UK
Thanks for that, I was wondering what side-dress meant. This is the application of fertiliser using a machine which basically injects it into the soil, usually when the crop is growing?
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nchobbyfarm
Posted 2/17/2015 18:03 (#4393528 - in reply to #4393458)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Eastern North Carolina
Exactly. Some use knives/straight shanks others use coulters with an injector behind them.

Anhydrous ammonia, liquid nitrogen, & granular dry fert can all be side dressed. Type sidedress or sidedress applicators into the search tool & you'll find pics of the various implements used for that job. We use coulter rigs on our farm to place 28% liquid N by cotton & corn. Our soils are sandy & don't hold nitrogen all that well, so split applications seem to work better here. We use cultivators with dry fertilizer boxes to side dress tobacco.
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ollie1983
Posted 2/17/2015 18:16 (#4393554 - in reply to #4393528)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



South West UK
How late do you do the final pass with your nitrogen, before the crop gets too tall and stops you?

What the reasons for using anhydrous vs liquid N vs granules?

We would split apply the N to our cereals and canola but not the maize. In fact, not many of my guys put nitrogen on maize full stop besides the little big in the starter.

Sorry for all the questions!

Edited by ollie1983 2/17/2015 18:16
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nchobbyfarm
Posted 2/17/2015 18:53 (#4393658 - in reply to #4393554)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Eastern North Carolina
Try to get the corn and the cotton too really at the 4-8 leaf stage up until it gets too tall to drive over with the tractor. Choice of N source really depends on what's available or what's most cost effective in your area.

In the Midwest anhydrous seems to still be popular, in my area, it's all dry or liquid. Liquids easier to handle/safer.

Surprised you don't apply N to corn there. We'd never even consider raising corn without a fair amount of pre plant N and a sidedress application.
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Ron..NE ILL..10/48
Posted 2/18/2015 05:42 (#4394535 - in reply to #4393554)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



Chebanse, IL.....

Sidedressing in Northeastern Illinois (60 mis S of Chicago) with NH3. This was a few years ago for us. Hopefully this YouTube isn't blocked out in Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy9InzF8tiQ

Photo below is sidedressing with liquid UAN (aka 32% N). Again, this is a 15 shank applicator that has 1.5x orifices on the end rows, therefore we skip one row when we make the return pass.

Below is a view from the cab of our NH3 applicator (JD 2510H). However, just behind it you see our UAN applicator. Both applicators are applying 1.5x on their outer shanks.

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tigger
Posted 2/18/2015 10:46 (#4395153 - in reply to #4394535)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Iowa
Ron, have you had a good experience with the Deere NH3 applicator disk units? TIA
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Ron..NE ILL..10/48
Posted 2/18/2015 11:29 (#4395230 - in reply to #4395153)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



Chebanse, IL.....

tigger,

Yes, I guess you could say that. I think we've completed 4 full seasons of sidedress w/our 2510H. No major problems. As you might notice, ours is utilizing the ANH3 system, which I very much like, and also the JD Pit Stop Pro....which has taken a lot of work out of sidedressing. We (me) don't even get out of the tractor to couple the wagon to the 2510. ANH3 system also assures proper dispensing since orifices are used vs just manifolding. I remember a few yrs back, there were always tests conducted gathering volume output information from NH3 bars & their appropriate manifolding systems. You'd have to catch the NH3 in a bucket of water to measure the difference between the rows in output. ANH3 works well.

I'm absolutely certain at this point our next applicator will be a JD 2510H....or whatever they may update to.

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ollie1983
Posted 2/18/2015 16:56 (#4395812 - in reply to #4394535)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



South West UK
Ok those are smart outfits, can I have a go in the JD crawler?

Where we are growing corn for silage, if the land has a history of heavy manure/slurry applications we tend to drastically reduce the nitrogen we apply for the crop.

It is typical to use a little starter fertiliser though.
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Ron..NE ILL..10/48
Posted 2/17/2015 19:49 (#4393815 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question



Chebanse, IL.....

Seems to be a "here" & "there" thing. We've been sidedressing NH3 here for 40+ years. Started w/liquid before that. In this area, I'd guess that 95% of the applicators are set up on a "1 row short" setup. In other words, if you're applying 16 rows, you only have 15 shanks. If applying 12 rows, then only 11 shanks, etc. Then, we run 1.5 x on the outer nozzles, or if you're not using orifices, then split a whole barb out of a manifold & run 1 hose to each end from that split to feed a double tube knife. Never run 2 hoses into 1 tube....that won't work well.

I'm absolutely certain that our next applicator will also be of the "1 row short" configuration. Though I will admit, we have never come close to attaining the 400 bu, then 460 bu, & now 500+ bus necessary to win the NCGA. But, we're doing OK. Not saying this is the only way...just saying it works fine here.

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DC swIL
Posted 2/17/2015 20:38 (#4393982 - in reply to #4393815)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Ron, I am wanting to go from 11 to 13 knife so I can pick up the extra 30" width when I am using it as preplant. We preplant about half our corn each spring and I thought the extra width for not many extra $$ would be a little more productive. I guess the flip side of that equation is when sidedressing one shank will always be in a previously worked row, which doesn't seem all that productive.
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DobsonAG
Posted 2/17/2015 20:27 (#4393946 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Donnellson, IA. Makes saying here easier.
I run 30' bar with 6 high speed units on 60" centers. Two hoses to each row. I have units in tractor tracks but it doesn't seem to have trouble sealing. With the offset openers I decided to keep it even instead of running 7 and splitting the outside. Was worried about 60" center application but haven't noticed any issues even when on steeper slopes and row unit isn't perfectly in the middle of row. I also like the less disruption with coulter unit and every other row when it comes to hills and erosion.
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loran
Posted 2/18/2015 19:30 (#4396272 - in reply to #4392302)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175
Guess I'm going to be the odd Odd duck....

Been skip row ever since I went back to side dress..... I liked it.


Looked pretty hard at putting together a skip row rig with dawn 6000s


And looked at buying a used DEERE rig....

Stumbled on the new GreatPlains NutriPlacer... Nh3 coulter rig....

I could buy that NEW turn key ready less then the cheapest 5yr old used DEERE....

Then a few folks found out what I was looking at and committed to custom preplant work....

Just got word it's on a truck northbound.....

I only needed 11/13 but ended up getting 17(I'll run .5 on outer rows, or if it's rtk..... Just run full rate every row if the want...

Edited by loran 2/18/2015 19:33




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DobsonAG
Posted 2/18/2015 20:24 (#4396496 - in reply to #4396272)
Subject: RE: Sidedress question


Donnellson, IA. Makes saying here easier.
You will have to post how you get along with it. Looks like a nice set-up.
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