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gt5

Posted 3/31/2008 11:02 (#346351)
Subject: hecluse(sp) engines in whites?

just wondering how good or bad the engines were. seem like they have a bad reputation, but wondering if they desire it.

Mr. Snerdly1

Posted 3/31/2008 11:08 (#346355 - in reply to #346351)
Subject: RE: hecluse(sp) engines in whites?

I doubt they desire it, but they seem to have quite a bit of trouble scoring. I don't know what the reason is, but it happens. They aren't good on fuel either although they aren't a lot worse than many of the tractors built during that era.

I think the Cummins engine can be installed in them fairly easily and would make a very good tractor with that change.

unifarmor

Posted 3/31/2008 11:35 (#346378 - in reply to #346351)
Subject: Re: hecluse(sp) engines in whites?

Western Oregon

Funny you should mention the Hercules engine... I just happen to have one!
Fuel consumption is more than I like. Don't have exact figures right now. As i'm trying to avoid work on a monday morning with kind of snow on the ground in Oregon... Something like this. At 1800 rpm. my MM G1355 uses just under 1 gallon per acre pulling a Great Plains 1500 at 6.5 mph. International w/8.3 cummins uses the same and I have to be careful not to go over 7.5mph White 2-155 (herc) uses right at 1 gal/acre at 6.5 mph.
This is an average and does include some moving time as my records were not as good as I thought.
Of the three tractors the one I don't have to shift very often is the MM. Hills don't really seem to matter to it much.
A&I lists a complete rebuild kit for the Hercules for $1400. There is a Herc engine core on ebay for $1400.
My theory was that since the Hercules seems to have a bad reputation I could buy a White with a Hercules for a lot less money. It worked... The problems I had (leaky transmission, head gaskets) could have happened after 450hrs with any used tractor. My 2-155 MFWD@ 6000hrs was $17500 IN OREGON. White 185 MFWD with 6000 hrs in IDAHO $22,000. In midwest with 4,000 to 6,500 price was $25,000 to $45,000.
Plus it was a local dealer who said he would run it through the shop. Which he did. In one door and out the next, with a pause to install the quick hitch. Got it home and the aircleaner was starting to collapse. No dirt in the intake and I had to have the tractor at that point in time but.....

unifarmor

Posted 3/31/2008 11:46 (#346390 - in reply to #346378)
Subject: and one more thing

Western Oregon

I have been told the Hercules came from the factor with ring problems. So they did smoke a bit and had some blowby. However, this problem is solved with a rebuild kit. So if I has been rebuilt once it should be ok.
Mechanic told me that a cummins can be made to fit right in. Said it was not that hard to do. Other folks here should know more than me.
Hercules engines came in the 2-155 and 2-135. Same engine just detuned in 2-135. Early 2-135 no turbo. Late 2-135 had turbo.
Series three tractors are the best.
Whites that leak oil will never stop.
Whites that don't leak oil are keepers...
My .02$ on White tractors
But what do I know, I only have one. I can't even be called a "Collector" yet....

JohnW

Posted 3/31/2008 12:18 (#346411 - in reply to #346390)
Subject: RE: Re Power Kits..

NW Washington

FWIW, here is a source of repower kits to install Cummins engines in various tractors, sprayers and combines, including Whites and Olivers.

http://www.agrepower.com/

Kooiker

Posted 3/31/2008 19:43 (#346678 - in reply to #346390)
Subject: All 2-135's were turbo nt

John Burns

Posted 4/1/2008 00:40 (#347037 - in reply to #346678)
Subject: RE: All 2-135's were turbo nt

Pittsburg, Kansas

That is correct. He was probably thinking of the 2-150 with the MM motor. They were NA (not to mention a dog).

And I can't for the life of me remember right now what it is but there was a difference in the 2-135 and 2-155 engines. Might have been the turbo or maybe head and valves. Both 478's though.

2-155 after mid 79 I think had big OU drive like the 2-180 (I had one of the first 2-155's with the big OU. But that does not have anything to do with the engine.)

John

John SD

Posted 4/4/2008 08:38 (#349729 - in reply to #347037)
Subject: I believe the 155 was aftercooled?...

not sure if air to air or air to water.

John Burns

Posted 4/1/2008 00:34 (#347032 - in reply to #346378)
Subject: Re: hecluse(sp) engines in whites?

Pittsburg, Kansas

Fuel consumption could be improved quite a bit on those engines if they were geared up and throttled back. In Nebraska Tests they were not quit as good as some of the other tractors of the ear at maximum power but at lower engine rpms they compared favorably.

They are a thin dry sleeve engine and if the sleeves did not fit perfectly (and no way of knowing if they did) they would develop hot spots because of poor heat transfer. Once in a while you will find a guy that goes 10,000 hours but most die prematurely at somewhere between 3500 and 5000, usually with scored sleeves and broken piston rings.

They were a very good pulling engine (one of the best for backup torque reserve of their time according to Nebraska tests) but a little hard on fuel and a little short on life, as were some of the other manufacturers of that era (seems like AC's always were advertised used with 2-3000 hours with a "new engine").

I would catagorize the engine as a "fair" engine for the above reasons. Oh, and they will cost 50% more to overhaul.

John

9700

Posted 3/31/2008 23:08 (#346957 - in reply to #346351)
Subject: Re: hecluse(sp) engines in whites?

They are a Hercules engine and, more technically, a White engine after '69 or '70 as I recall. Somewhere during that time, White bought the Hercules engine company of Canton, Ohio, so by the time the 2-135/155 tractors came out in 1977, it was a White engine. They were a stout engine that developed good torque and power. Early engines had somewhat weak piston ring lands that would fatigue and break causing the liner scoring with which these engines are generally associated. A later updated piston redesign solved this problem, but early engines would often have these ring land problems develop around 4-6k hours. They weren't as good on fuel as an IH or AC engine of the same era, and liked fuel about as much as a JD 466, but the engine developed great torque. The engine did not use a cross-flow cylinder head, but this did not cause widespread problems, but I would say that as a rule, a crossflow head is preferred. They weren't at all bad engines. White won a military contract with this engine and supplied them in a number of heavy haul troop and cargo transport trucks for a number of years. Therefore, you will see them cheap and readily available via military surplus suppliers. Wouldn't be at all afraid of one. They are a bit more difficult to rebuild on your own if you want because they are a dry sleeve engine also and there are some special procedures for sleeve installation as such.

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