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Dozer track question (pics)
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play in the dirt
Posted 6/27/2014 18:13 (#3940408)
Subject: Dozer track question (pics)



south central IOWA		Just got this Fiat Allis 14c and going over changing fluids and fixing things.

The track adjustment is all the way extended or at least looks like it is. Is it possible or even the thing to do to take a link out of the chain? The book says the sag should be between 1.2-1.6 inches and we have a little over 2.

What do you think, run it how it is our mess with it while it's sitting at the shop?






Edited by play in the dirt 6/27/2014 18:13




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play in the dirt
Posted 6/27/2014 18:20 (#3940416 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



south central IOWA		How about these sprockets too. I say they are worn pretty good and Dad says they're not that bad. Is there much life left in them?



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hillfarmer
Posted 6/27/2014 18:33 (#3940429 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



Rollers are bad, but If you don't have a ton of work to due might run for a while

Pins bushings sprockets are a few bucks
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dmh
Posted 6/27/2014 18:55 (#3940461 - in reply to #3940429)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Trivoli, Illinois
rails look good, sprockets are gone. Looking at the adjuster it looks like you have more. Look on Machinerytrader and look at photos for your machine see if adjuster is forward of yours. Here is a helpful web site http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/forum.php
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bdmb
Posted 6/27/2014 19:04 (#3940471 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



3rd photo looks like spacers are installed to get more tension
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830rnvk
Posted 6/27/2014 19:17 (#3940488 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


South TX		Have the pins and bushings in the rails been turned? That will help tell how much life they have left. Like somebody else said, if it doesn't have much to do it might be fine. One of our older dozers sees about 10 hours a year, the undercarriage on it is shot but it will still knock out a big tree or push a little dirt if needed.
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play in the dirt
Posted 6/27/2014 19:49 (#3940519 - in reply to #3940488)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



south central IOWA		The bushings have not been turned. Looking at the pictures can you tell me how you turn them because I don't have a clue. Learning as I go.

We only have a few miles of terraces to build, trees to take out, ponds to build, and anything else that needs done.

So it looks like we need to try and find sprockets for it and maybe have a couple rollers on hand?


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8320farmer
Posted 6/27/2014 19:52 (#3940521 - in reply to #3940519)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


East central Indiana		I wouldn't bother turning the bushings just shorten the tracks get new sprockets. They'll last you along time. But the keep in mind summer dry dirt season is the worst for steel tracks. You need mud for lubrication running in the mud some would keep it lubed up and not squeak so much.
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play in the dirt
Posted 6/27/2014 20:05 (#3940544 - in reply to #3940521)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



south central IOWA		How do you get the pins knocked out to shorten the tracks?

The one side has a rubber grommet. What does that do for you? I assume you can pull it out?
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8320farmer
Posted 6/27/2014 20:12 (#3940549 - in reply to #3940544)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


East central Indiana		You'll have to find a shop with the pin press to do it. They can do it on or off the machine. There's a place in Bellevue iowa I know used to do it. I believe they run the service supply America catalog also.
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RodInNS
Posted 6/27/2014 20:49 (#3940609 - in reply to #3940544)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Those are sealed and lubricated chains... each pin has an oil reservoir. Generally the seals give out and then the pin runs dry and wears out... so turning them is a waste of time. You need a big press to push a couple pins out and remove a segment. The sprockets are also screwed... For what it's worth I'd just run it until it starts throwing the track on a regular basis, then deal with it. The sag is not that bad at the present time.

Rod
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Goat Boy
Posted 6/27/2014 21:05 (#3940635 - in reply to #3940609)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Looks like about the same u/c I used to run on the Austoft cane harvesters. High speed and heat were our issues. Your sprockets need to go.

I would, if needing to milk it would do this.

New segments, make some 1.5" push blocks for the tensioners, and run good tension.

When you get to 2"+ slack and no adjustment! punch a link out. Without adding push blocks you don't have enough rail to take a link out. Most cat shops have a infield press but the service call is about the labor cost of un bolting a set of pads.

Pin turning is next to useless. In your case your rail height isn't that great. Berco makes a high rail and worked well for me.

Pick your poison.
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Sodbustr
Posted 6/27/2014 19:38 (#3940508 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Western Iowa		shove a little more grease in the tensioner. If it is maxed out you have your answer. When you get some dirt in the tracks they tighten up some.

You are right, drive sprockets are shot. Can't really drop a link with the chain you have.

Looks to me in 100-200 hours you better put on new U/C.
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8320farmer
Posted 6/27/2014 19:40 (#3940510 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


East central Indiana		If you do much with that I bet you find religion real fast. It ain't much fun putting tracks back on in the field. I'd at least replace the sprockets there junk. Also call around I bet somebody can short track that for you pretty quick. Pins and bushings don't look that bad from here.
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4WD
Posted 6/27/2014 19:46 (#3940514 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

Remember, that with new drive sprocket segments, that will slightly tighten the track also.

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Now_What
Posted 6/27/2014 20:20 (#3940567 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Have fun getting parts for that Fiat, we used to farm with FIAT AC 11-B and 16-B crawlers any time they went down it was weeks and sometimes months before you could find parts.
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D6Joe
Posted 6/27/2014 20:29 (#3940582 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


east central ND		On sprocket segments the old saying is that sharp is shot. Looks like the roller flanges are about hitting the pin bosses - meaning the rollers and the rails are getting very worn.

Get some aftermarket sprocket segments put on, and then you should get some more hours out of that worn under carriage.

As long as you are not planning to do full power turns you can keep running the u/c to destruction. Just be prepared to put a trac back on in the bottom of a mud hole, or as you are half done pushing over a tree.

If you have a trac shop come out and inspect it, they will tell you exactly how worn it is, and how much to redo. And what it needs right now - like the sprocket segments. They look worn enough to skip links under full push. Well worth the money to get it inspected. Then you can decide if you want to short trac it, and try to get the next hundred or two hours out of it. Might go a lot longer, might not.
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Rich@Ks
Posted 6/27/2014 20:42 (#3940599 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



NC Kansas

I 'd replace sprocket segments as they  bolt on and should help with adjustment issues.. I might be looking at used UC from salvage yard. Changing complete UC not as bad as its looks.. Just takes time..R

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terratrac
Posted 6/27/2014 21:10 (#3940644 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Talk to Grace Track Service in Elkhart IA. They had a used set of rails that they put new pins and bushings for my 1957 Case and they had sprockets on hand.
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ekeller2
Posted 6/27/2014 21:15 (#3940654 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


So. IL		I have torched out a link before and drove in a new master pin to shorten the track chain. No press needed, master pins are a little undersized can be drove in. Not saying it's right, it just on the cheep.
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BHTN
Posted 6/27/2014 21:28 (#3940674 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



West Tennessee		You've gotten some good info here. I did NOT like have to spend time putting track back on when we wanted to work so I just replaced the whole undercarriage. You might can get by for a while by replacing those sprockets and if you can get a link out of that rail. You have the kind of rails that unbolt so, like someone else said, I'm not sure how you take a link out of those. Worn down grousers are no fun either because you lose a lot of your pushing power there. Good luck to you. Undercarriage stuff is sometimes aggravating and expensive.
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olwhda
Posted 6/27/2014 22:08 (#3940733 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


Liberty, MO		Matt that undercarriage looks like the undercarriage that was on my D6D that I bought several years ago, maybe 20 yrs ago, new SALT rails! sprocket segments! most of the lower rollers, built up the front idlers! CAT Dealer labor in their shop, $25,000 later and even saved the pads, But at the price I bought it for, I'm not hurt TOOOOOO much, really enjoy having it around when needed though.

Just make sure and don't get on any steep side slopes, or you will be in trouble, almost happened to me as I tried using mine in that condition.

Edit, NEVER drive it on concrete floor, IF you respect the floor, also drive it up on blocks to go onto the shop floor so you won't chip the edge of concrete.

Pair of pliers and screwdriver won't fix much on dozers, BIG hammers, wrenches, and heavy jacks, and lots of patience, park it with lots of room, (1/2 acre), around it also. Loader tractors, winch trucks, mechanic trucks all needed and they take room to work around.

Only trying to be helpful, NOT trying to be a Smart Alec.

Edited by olwhda 6/27/2014 23:00
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play in the dirt
Posted 6/28/2014 11:57 (#3941390 - in reply to #3940733)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



south central IOWA
olwhda - 6/27/2014

Edit, NEVER drive it on concrete floor, IF you respect the floor, also drive it up on blocks to go onto the shop floor so you won't chip the edge of concrete.


Didn't hurt the concrete but it was a little hard on the 2x6's. ;-).

Thanks for all the info guys. I think we're going to use it a little to see if the machine is even sound enough to make it worthy of putting new UC components on it. The first time it throws the track off and after I get done cussing, I'll know what to do.




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830rnvk
Posted 6/27/2014 22:38 (#3940780 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


South TX		Well I think you've found the answer to your UC questions here lol. My experience with dozers is, if you start tearing things down (screens, guards, belly pans) just to fix one thing, you might look over what may fail next in that area of the machine. It's always easier to fix or replace something at that time (and hopefully at your shop) rather than have to tear it all back down in the field. 9 times out of 10, and just like any machinery they never break down at a good time. For what you're wanting to do it will probably be a good machine.
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Construct'O
Posted 6/28/2014 04:23 (#3940919 - in reply to #3940780)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)



SW Iowa

You have Cat rail with the claw master link.Just take the bolts out of the pad and the track will come apart.Loosen track tension first tho.The sprockets need replaced.

They rail high on the links don't look that bad.So the rollers getting close to the pin boss is more then likely the bottom rollers are getting wore down.Makes for rough ride when they get to rubbing on the pin boss.

The segments look to be split bolt on not one piece,so you could change them without taking track a part.Just jack up the machine and loosen the tracks rotate the sproket replacing with the new one then tun again and keep replacing until done.

To get more tension for the track i have also seen guys make blocks to put under the top rollers to lift them up higher which in turn pulls the front idler back to give you some more length to tighten track.Just be careful you don't get them to high or the track pads will hit the fenders when the equrlizer bar moves up and down when you run over un even ground.

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dvswia
Posted 6/28/2014 08:20 (#3941116 - in reply to #3940919)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


sw corner ia.		denny, when I got my D6D the rail height looked excellent just like this one, but almost all the links had run dry and many were so loose you could see between the bushing and the pin. I could not keep the tracks on no matter how tight they were so I wonder if this is what is going on here too? I put new salt rails/sprockets on not long after I got it and it is good again.
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Hiflyer421
Posted 6/28/2014 07:37 (#3941053 - in reply to #3940408)
Subject: RE: Dozer track question (pics)


1G0		It's a can of worms......you didn't say how many hours you want to use the machine. Track looks to be a Cat salt track. Minimum would be to put new aftermarket segments on it and maybe raise the top rollers. If any bottom rollers have the their bearings knocked out you should replace them with a used one. That's probably the least expense and quick fix. Also the machine is out of alinement looking at picture of the rail and roller......it's riding to one side. Wouldn't do anything with it now but if you repair the undercarriage it will need to be straighten out.
If it was mine and I was going to kept it long term and run it many hours.....I'd use good aftermarket parts.
Segments, replace all the rollers, have the pins and bushings turned dry, weld the front idlers and try to tighten things up within reason. Run it till it won't move.
It's bull work but one can do it. Like the other post said just need good room to work around the dozer and a rubber tired backhoe or front loader....something to handle the tracks. Just make sure you jack the machine up high enough the first time to get the bottoms rollers etc. out the bottom.
Good luck with whatever you do!
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