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JD 4440 Hyd seat not working
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K-Stater
Posted 2/15/2008 10:57 (#310387)
Subject: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


Just bought a 1979 JD 4440, and the seat doesn't raise or work. My 4650's seat goes up when I start the tractor, and works fine. Just wondering what to fix on this. Thanks
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farmdude
Posted 2/15/2008 11:03 (#310391 - in reply to #310387)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


Are you sure the seat is hydraulic. Maybe a dumb question. Probably seals in the hydraulic cylinder in the seat. Not for sure though
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SD-455
Posted 2/15/2008 11:37 (#310413 - in reply to #310391)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


Northeast Indiana (Auburn)
Farmdude: not a dumb question as the hydraulic seat control was an option on the 40 series with the delux seat or at least it was yet in 1981. A neighbor bought a 4640 that had the Personal Posture Seat without the hydraulic control at an auction. He thought all tractors with the delux seat had the hydraulic controls. Needless to say he was not a happy camper.
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proud2Bafarmer
Posted 2/15/2008 13:00 (#310471 - in reply to #310387)
Subject: It does go up and down some...


Baldwin City, KS
just not as good as the 4650. Moving the height lever doesn't seem to change things much and the suspension has very little cushioning effect. I'm fairly sure that it is hydraulic, a friend of mine who hasn't been around JD jumped in the seas when the tractor wasn't running and wanted to know why the seas was sinking down. Could it be that the accumulator under the cab needs to be charged?
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SD-455
Posted 2/15/2008 13:28 (#310497 - in reply to #310471)
Subject: RE: It does go up and down some...


Northeast Indiana (Auburn)
The accumulator is the problem if you don't have much "spring action". The cylinder piston seal could be leaking if the seat will not stay at a set heigth when the tractor is running.
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sri
Posted 2/15/2008 13:36 (#310504 - in reply to #310387)
Subject: RE: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


nw pa
  first thing I would do is put some air into it abd see just what you have. will include a couple pictures of air tire vavle which is on our 4440 have the same thing on the 8640 so must come on them.  Was a thread awhile ago on this subject.



(4440 seat cylinder.jpg)



(4440 seat cylinder 2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 4440 seat cylinder.jpg (31KB - 375 downloads)
Attachments 4440 seat cylinder 2.jpg (29KB - 324 downloads)
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SD-455
Posted 2/15/2008 13:57 (#310514 - in reply to #310504)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


Northeast Indiana (Auburn)
The accumulater does not have air in it! It is charged with nitrogen. DO NOT ADD AIR OR ATTEMPT TO ADD AIR.
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sri
Posted 2/15/2008 15:31 (#310572 - in reply to #310514)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


nw pa
  Well it has been five years of air and haven't bad any trouble. Nitrogen was long gone out of ours. But maybe your right but most tire places now have nitrogen for some of their tires so can use it also.  For now we will stick to air.  What is the reasoning behind NO AIR.
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Hawken Cougar
Posted 2/15/2008 16:36 (#310599 - in reply to #310572)
Subject: Re: Reasons for using nitrogen



So. IL
Safety and performance are the predominant reasons for using nitrogen in accumulators.

Nitrogen is non-corrosive, inert (will not support combustion) and minimally affected by changes in temperature


Compressed air on the other hand contains moisture making it corrosive, it contains oxygen thereby supporting combustion and pressure changes considerably due to changes in temperature.

















Edited by Hawken Cougar 2/15/2008 16:51
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sri
Posted 2/15/2008 17:52 (#310643 - in reply to #310599)
Subject: Re: Reasons for using nitrogen


nw pa

  The safety issue seems hard to take in light of all the pnuematic appliances out there, And considering all the car tires that are going around. 

 The moisture issue is something to consider but with the small amount of air were talking about I don't think it's a problem.

  Glad to hear both sides of this, and if this was a new tractor i would stick with the dealer rec..Tractor will probably outlast most of us no matter what you put in it.

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Lil' Hoss
Posted 2/15/2008 18:00 (#310652 - in reply to #310643)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


NESD
The reason for not using compressed air is that compressed air and oil mixed together become an explosion hazard, same reason the the oxygen regulators on a oxy/acetelyene torch say to not use oil on the regulator, I find it hard to understand why the manufactureres of the nitrogen accumulators used a standard air valve stem to charge them, it becomes way to easy for someone to unknowingly or uncaring to put compressed air in one. Or just being to cheap to fix the problem.
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sri
Posted 2/15/2008 22:35 (#310883 - in reply to #310652)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


nw pa

  Well I will give you the cheap part since I have no good rebuttal for that.=(:)

 As for the dangers, with the small amount of air we are talking about in this situation I don't belive it would be near the hazard of such things as air brakes with compressor oil that gets mixed and pressurized through the system or the air over hydraulic's that run everything from jacks to car lifts to cylinders in the industrial world.  Add the thousands of miles of oil pipelines with air bound to be stuck in there somewhere.

  In this case if oil is coming out of the schrader valve it means the seal is shot anyway and no amount of air will keep it up. If no oil is coming out then the two won't mix anyway.

 

    In the end it's whatever you ar comfortable with.



Edited by sri 2/15/2008 22:42
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Lil' Hoss
Posted 2/16/2008 11:30 (#311145 - in reply to #310883)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


NESD
I found this on the internet, maybe is the extreme as far as working with an accumulator but the principle is the same and that is why there are warnings not to recharge an accumulator with compressed air. Remember that the compressed air has oxygen in it.

That scenario was documented to me by a safety person with Airgas. Another example that is probably a little more common has to do with contamination of the inlet fitting on an oxygen regulator, in the scenario that I was given, the individual had taken his oxygen gauge off of the tank and set it in the back of his service truck while getting a new bottle and when he put in the new bottle and hooked the regulator up he hadn't checked the inlet fitting before reconnecting it to the bottle, he had contaminated the fitting with oily sludge from the bed of the truck, when he opened the valve on the bottle there was an explosion that blew part of his hand off. It was explained to me that it is like a detonation in a diesel engine: Fuel/grease, oil, Pressure/ from the pressure in the tank, Pure oxygen/ from the tank, and the kindling point was reached when the valve was cracked and the rapid pressure rise created the heat necessary for combustion. Hope these examples will help to somewhat explain some of the dangers of the presence of oil and oxygen in combination.
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plowboy
Posted 2/16/2008 11:52 (#311161 - in reply to #311145)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working



Brazilton KS

There is an ENORMOUS difference between putting oil in a high pressure O2 environment and putting air at low pressure in an accumulator.  Surely you are experienced enough to know that an accumulator is basically a hydraulic cylinder with oil on one side and gas on the other, and that under normal conditions the two sides are completely separate.    Surely you are also experienced enough to know that we put air and hydraulic oil in the same space and pressurize them together every time we hook up a cylinder which has been moved with a fitting open.   I haven't heard of any cylinders blowing up when you first cycle them, have you? 

 

Sometimes one must make a distinction between what is theoretically possible and what is  plausible.   

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Lil' Hoss
Posted 2/16/2008 13:53 (#311235 - in reply to #311161)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working


NESD
I know exactly what you are saying and I do know the difference. The point I am trying to make is that the manufacturers state to NOT put compressed air into an accumulator. NUFF SAID
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plowboy
Posted 2/16/2008 21:32 (#311544 - in reply to #311235)
Subject: Re: JD 4440 Hyd seat not working



Brazilton KS
Manufacturers state a lot of things that I don't put much stock in.  Again, one has to make the distinction between possible and plausible. 
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