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Farmer8920

Posted 12/7/2013 03:25 (#3497799)
Subject: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

I'm in the market for a new or well maintained SPFH to reduce my time spent in the field and I'm also short on good hired labor to run multiple pull-type harvestors at one time. I harvest about 250-300 acres of haylage per year and about the same amount of 30" row corn. I have run NH 900's and FP240's the last 20+ years and besides minor issues, they have been reliable for me but are getting a lot of wear and it is time to replace them. I have several good NH dealerships within 20 miles. The closest Claas dealership is a 1.5 hour drive away.

Local NH dealer is quoting near $275K new and estimates $1000/year maintenance costs with the acreage I run thru it. He said larger operators easily spend near $10K per year in maintenance costs. I'm assuming Claas has similar or higher numbers than this since I have heard they are more reliable machines and parts will cost more also.

My question is, is there a major difference in the cost to operate a NH FR9040 (14' hay head and 6 row kemper head for 30" rows) compared to a Claas of similar size? How is the reliability and ease of use between the two brands? I have never run a CNH FPT motor so I am not familar with their reliabilty compared to say a Cummins or CAT motor.

briggsfm

Posted 12/7/2013 05:00 (#3497813 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Scottville, 49454 Northwest Michigan

Our first self propelled choppers were New Holland. Switched to Claas about 10 years ago. In our opinion... Claas choppers are a better chopper.

But like any change of company, with respect to machinery.... there is a bit of a learning curve to know how to properly maintain and operate the unit. So this would be a "con" to switch from New Holland to Claas. The fact that Claas is farther away is also a bit of a disadvantage for Claas. But based on our experience.... if the price isn't too much more than the New Holland.... I would still make the switch.

Either way... I'd be surprised if you can keep your maintenance costs under a $1000.00 per year. A set of knifes, shear bar, oil and filters would be more than that. Just sayin.

gordon

garvo

Posted 12/7/2013 05:04 (#3497815 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

western iowa,by Denison

we average about 3000 acres a year-spend about 30-50,000 on repairs-hay is the hardest on knives-I run pull type choppers in hay-if your short on help the self propelled will not help-what are you chopping in,bags silo-pit-realize bigger chopper means bigger wagons-my self propelled did not work till we built 10x20ft silage wagons

Farmer8920

Posted 12/7/2013 08:45 (#3498155 - in reply to #3497815)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

I will be chopping in rear unload pull-type forage wagons. I have some H&S 18ft and 20ft wagons now. All of my forage gets dumped on piles and compacted. Pile size is usually 30-40ft wide, 150-200ft length and 10-15ft in height. I'm currently using a 30ft continous merger and the FP240 has all it can handle most of the time in heavy haylage. How do your built 10x20 silage wagons hold up compared to say the H&S rear unload models?

stanredrider

Posted 12/7/2013 09:42 (#3498299 - in reply to #3498155)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Westside, IA

Fourth or fifth season with them, other than tires they have been holding up really well. They take more abuse than one would think, 10-20mph through fields, sliding down hills sideways, and up and down roads all day long. Cant imagine anything else holding up for 60 days straight.

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Tim in WI

Posted 12/7/2013 07:30 (#3497982 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Embarrass WI

Do the good NH dealerships have SP chopper experience? If not, they will not be of much help. Very little carries over from PT to SP choppers.

All equipment has it's strong and weak points. I have friends that have NH choppers and get along, but it seems that they have more downtime than our Claas.

If you are only going to be chopping your own stuff, you should be able to get along just fine with an older Claas-In My Opinion a 10 year old Claas would be plenty adequate.

exit

Posted 12/7/2013 07:37 (#3497997 - in reply to #3497982)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Athens, Ga

+1. If dealership it's experienced in spfh it not much help anyways. Our claas dealer is over 3 hrs away, there has been several times where we broke down and called their top machanic and he had use goin again in 5-10 min.

We chop about the same corn silage wise, and went from nh230 pull type to claas 860. Furtherest field is still less than a 1.5 mile. With the pull type 3 people could keep it going. 1 chopping, 1 hauling, 1 packing. Tractor on chopper was to small but it was all we had and would take 5-6 weeks to chop 300-350 ac. Went to the claas 860 and we needed 3 truck drivers, and could use a 4th at times. Also pack tractor got a lot busier so I made a 8ft blade into a 12ft blade. Our chop time now is 7-10 days depending on how many truck drivers we have.

Cost of upkeep will be more than $1,000. $3,000-5,000 would be a good number with older chopper and older heads. I think my dad would pay $10,000 a year to never go back to a pull type.

Edited by exit 12/7/2013 07:51

royman

Posted 12/7/2013 07:48 (#3498020 - in reply to #3497997)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

alymer ontario

Yea for the little bit Ull be doing a 830 machine used is all Ull ever need will last forever, but still need 5 ppl to run that operation in most conditions so not sure that would work for u since labour issues

exit

Posted 12/7/2013 07:55 (#3498041 - in reply to #3498020)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Athens, Ga

If you can lock down 5-6 people for a week, shouldn't be a problem. Also trucks need to be atleast 18ft otherwise the fill up to fast. If I had my way and a lot of cash, I would so what some others on here have down and made large tractor pulled wagons.

Edited by exit 12/7/2013 07:56

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Farmer8920

Posted 12/7/2013 08:52 (#3498178 - in reply to #3498041)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

Nice pics!! Those are the type of wagons I could use here also. I run 3.5 miles one direction to some fields so I use military 5-ton 6-wheel drive trucks to pull my 18-20ft wagons right now.

Would you happen to know the cost of one of those wagons and how much tongue weight they have?

Plow79

Posted 12/7/2013 10:22 (#3498409 - in reply to #3498178)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Chilliwack BC

The bottom picture, 2 of them were bought used at about 30 and 45,000 USD. Maybe a ton of tongue weight loaded and very little empty.

I agree with most previous previous replies. If you have close NH dealers that have sold FR's and have parts in stock and know how to work on them , consider that route. We have an 860 and would go Claas again if we had to. Our repair bills are very reasonable. One comment I will disagree on is that grass is hard on a machine. 98% of ours is grass and I've never seen excessive wear because of it.

I would avoid an FX machine at all cost.

durallymax

Posted 12/7/2013 11:06 (#3498520 - in reply to #3498409)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

plow79 - 12/7/2013 09:22 The bottom picture, 2 of them were bought used at about 30 and 45,000 USD. Maybe a ton of tongue weight loaded and very little empty. I agree with most previous previous replies. If you have close NH dealers that have sold FR's and have parts in stock and know how to work on them , consider that route. We have an 860 and would go Claas again if we had to. Our repair bills are very reasonable. One comment I will disagree on is that grass is hard on a machine. 98% of ours is grass and I've never seen excessive wear because of it. I would avoid an FX machine at all cost.

Grass causes more wear on the machine than corn silage does for the most part. Cereal crops are more abrasive and often contain more dirt as well. They also seem to have more rocks as those fields dont get picked as good as the alfalfa fields. Some fields I swear we are driving the chopper around as a $500/hr rock picker with the amount of times we stop for stones.

I would agree that agood used Claas will suiot him well, 492 or 493 machine. 870 green eye would probably be more than he'd need but it is loved by many.

exit

Posted 12/7/2013 11:15 (#3498534 - in reply to #3498409)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Athens, Ga

What do they use to turn te unloading chain? Hydro motor with planetary or chains and sprockets?? Would really like to have more pics of those wagons up close. I saved the ones you posted of them in te field.

Plow79

Posted 12/7/2013 22:36 (#3500264 - in reply to #3498534)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Chilliwack BC

2 hydraulic motors with chain reduction. I think an 11 tooth sprocket on motor and an 88 tooth on shaft. #60 chain. 1 motor is 24 in³, the other is 18 in³. Each buggy has that same setup. They both each only came with the 24 in³ motor but we had to add the other one for more torque. I'll try to get some close up pictures for you.

Plow79

Posted 12/7/2013 22:09 (#3500203 - in reply to #3498178)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Chilliwack BC

Here's prices on 4 that sold here a couple months ago.

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Farmer8920

Posted 12/7/2013 08:35 (#3498134 - in reply to #3497982)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

All the NH Dealers nearby sell and maintain the SP choppers so I assume they can obtain parts and service them fairly quick if needed. I just hope I don't see many repairs on a NH SP Chopper if it is maintained at the regualr intervals. It don't forsee it getting abused as it will not be driven by inexperienced hired help.

Iowadad

Posted 12/7/2013 09:14 (#3498229 - in reply to #3498134)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

We have a 9040 and love it, granted we moved up from a JD 5400 Mechanically we haven't had any problems, but have had a few sensor problems, but I would go with NH again. I think NH got a bad name with the FX machines, but the FR machines have been good

Farmer8920

Posted 12/8/2013 07:38 (#3500615 - in reply to #3498229)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

I heard that also about the FX machines. Those kept my neighbor who was a NH dealer mechanic for 20+ years busy.

How is the fuel comsumption of the 9040 engine? Do you have the 2wd or 4wd option?

I am thinking the 4wd will come in handy on wetter years but duals might work also if that is an option. Not all of my ground has drainage tile so floatation is a concern.

Iowadad

Posted 12/8/2013 07:54 (#3500654 - in reply to #3500615)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

ours is 2 wheel drive, it has pretty wide tires. we have a 360 N6 head on it the first few years then I came across a Krone head that seamed reasonable so I am going to try to trade the 6 row off. I always thought the fuel economy was pretty good but can't recall for sure what it was, I was thinking 25 g/hour. With a row head I don't think you would like dual on. Do you pull wagons or pull alongside? Town and country Imp put togather a pretty nice kit to seal things up for earlage.

Farmer8920

Posted 12/9/2013 02:56 (#3503259 - in reply to #3500654)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

I plan to do some of both, pulling some wagons and driving along side. I would be interested to hear how the Krone head compares to the NH head. Is the Krone head for earlage?

I am looking at the NH 420FI-6 row rotary head for corn since I buy some of my neighbors corn also and they plant 22", 30" or 36" rows.

durallymax

Posted 12/9/2013 09:49 (#3503915 - in reply to #3503259)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Farmer8920 - 12/9/2013 01:56 I plan to do some of both, pulling some wagons and driving along side. I would be interested to hear how the Krone head compares to the NH head. Is the Krone head for earlage? I am looking at the NH 420FI-6 row rotary head for corn since I buy some of my neighbors corn also and they plant 22", 30" or 36" rows.

You have to use a combine head for earlage. Krone head is just their version of a row independent head. It works great and takes less power but when it wears out it can be expensive to rebuild. NH uses Kemper heads as does Deere. We did not like the small drum style header, it had a lot of feeding issues if you didn't keep it full of 4 rows or more and it would not feed once a dew set in. Supposedly they are redesigned now though.

farmechspector

Posted 12/7/2013 10:12 (#3498380 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

ECMN

More info in this thread on the black wagons "exit" put in his post. I also think "Ben in the Basin" has some he built by cutting the top out of shipping containers can't find that thread.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=332794&posts=3...

Big Ben

Posted 12/7/2013 11:36 (#3498570 - in reply to #3498380)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA

Here is a thread that has a few pictures and some discussion of the container trailers.

The the OP regarding choppers, for that acreage I'd recommend a good used Claas 830 or 850. The 492 series are relatively simple reliable machines. If the decision has been made to go new, a 930 would be the way I'd go. Same size as an 850.

I don't have a lot of experience with NH machines, but unless the dealer is known far and wide for doing a good job of supporting choppers, I would not go that route. The last loyal NH operators in this area switched to a Claas a year ago despite the NH dealer being much closer than the Claas dealer.

canadian farmer

Posted 12/7/2013 11:58 (#3498632 - in reply to #3498570)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Ben in the Basin - 12/7/2013 11:36 . If the decision has been made to go new, a 930 would be the way I'd go. .

Not sure if they will be available in North America, but the new baby Jag would probably be a good fit for the size of operation. Something like a 400 hp 830 or a 450 hp 850...

Big Ben

Posted 12/7/2013 12:20 (#3498673 - in reply to #3498632)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA

Ok I'd go with one of those new machines.
Why are they reusing model numbers? That part sounds like a bad idea.

durallymax

Posted 12/7/2013 12:22 (#3498681 - in reply to #3498673)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Ben in the Basin - 12/7/2013 11:20 Ok I'd go with one of those new machines. Why are they reusing model numbers? That part sounds like a bad idea.

The new 800s are not the same as the 900s. They will be sold alongside the 900 series. The feedrolls and cutterhead are different IIRC its more like a 492. Accellerator is removable out the right side with the tire off too.

http://www.maurentania.claas.com/fascination-claas/special-topics/agritechnica-2013/new-product-developments/jaguar

Edited by durallymax 12/7/2013 15:10

royman

Posted 12/7/2013 12:25 (#3498686 - in reply to #3498673)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

alymer ontario

Yes new 800 series is avaible in na next year pricing is bit cheaper then 900 series but not that much and do not a lot of the convince options that the 900 series do like the power mirrors and swing out feedrolls its all old school 492 style

exit

Posted 12/7/2013 14:49 (#3499002 - in reply to #3498673)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Athens, Ga

Updating the 800 series with new shields and tank layout, 900 series cab, and some other stuff. I like it, would like to know the price of them.

royman

Posted 12/7/2013 15:39 (#3499073 - in reply to #3499002)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

alymer ontario

Quoted a 8402wd was 275k in Ontario though in us u guys normally get it cheaper a 930 is 292 here

exit

Posted 12/7/2013 16:47 (#3499208 - in reply to #3499073)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Athens, Ga

I thought the new 800 series was using odd numbers. 830, 850, 870,

royman

Posted 12/7/2013 19:16 (#3499608 - in reply to #3499208)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

alymer ontario

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/24/10/2013/141686/claas-revamps-small...

exit

Posted 12/7/2013 23:27 (#3500353 - in reply to #3499608)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

Athens, Ga

Can't get link to work.

royman

Posted 12/8/2013 09:13 (#3500865 - in reply to #3500353)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

alymer ontario

Well it says class 840+850 use 12.9 liter i6 merecdes deisel to produce 400+455 HP , the 860 + 870 use a 15l v8 to make 510+598hp, and bunch of other stuff here another link or just Google 800 series claas http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/claas-reveal-jaguar-800-...

durallymax

Posted 12/7/2013 10:21 (#3498402 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

The FR/Forage Cruiser Machines are much much better than their older ones, but with an SPFH it comes down to the dealership.

It's not a matter of if, its when it will break. SPFH are high maintenance and whenever they break down you need service immediatley because the harvest windows are small. Our Claas dealer is over 1.5hrs away yet has better service than any of the three Deere dealers within 30 minutes of us which is why we made the switch. The Claas has been much more reliable too and does a better job while getting more done.

We used to run two FP240s and would have to trade one every year due to how hard we ran them. We bought a 7350 JD in 08 then traded for a 940 Claas in 11. We chop around 5000 acres of alfalfa annually (all cuttings combined), 1000 acres of corn silage, 500+ acres of snaplage/earlage and a few hundred acres of cereal crops (tritcale, rye, oats).

$1000 a year will barely cover the bare minimums of SPFH maintenance even on one that is babied, that wont even cover an FP240s annual maintenance.

You will not get by with less people running an SPFH but you will have an easier time finding people since they wont have to unhook wagons anymore.

jskooy

Posted 12/7/2013 23:53 (#3500379 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

mount vernon, washington

Fr in my opinion has a much nicer cab, bigger capacity, and a simpler machine then the claas. Have clientsse to 3000 hours on my 9060, its been a good chopper.

Farmer8920

Posted 12/8/2013 07:46 (#3500633 - in reply to #3500379)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

I also noticed the newer FR models have had improvements to make routine maintenance fairly easy and quick.

What kind of life span have you got out of the wear parts such as the chute liner, knives, processing rolls, etc....? I will definately not be running my new SPFH hard so I am trying to get an idea of reliability and maintenance costs.

jskooy

Posted 12/8/2013 22:46 (#3503141 - in reply to #3500633)
Subject: Re: Which SPFH?

mount vernon, washington

It really depends on what your chopping and if your fields are sandy. On average I get two seasons out of the wear items. For the most part, wear items are easy to replace. I have the non high wear parts, so not sure how long the high wear parts last. No problems with the processor yet, but the rolls are not as sharp as they use to be.

aussiebagger

Posted 12/8/2013 19:20 (#3502432 - in reply to #3497799)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Adelaide Hills, South Australia

Here is a thought from down under. What tractors do you have? Are the Kemper C3000, Lely storm or Poettinger Mex harvesters for reverse station tractors available in the US? Would one of them be a consideration? here is a video
We use a Kemper c2200 and it is way better than a pull type chopper to operate. The flywheel choppers are very efficient as well.

Farmer8920

Posted 12/9/2013 03:04 (#3503262 - in reply to #3502432)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Central, WI

Largest is a 280Hp MFWD. I have not seen any of those harvestors around central US. They might not work for me since I cut 14ft swaths and then merger 5 windrows into 1. The windrow is fairly large and sometimes too wide even for a NH FP240 to handle, especially first crop alfalfa. I try to minimize the trips around the field with the forage harvestor and forage wagons. Some fields can get really rough if the ground was wetter during the previous cutting and then dries up during the next.

aussiebagger

Posted 12/9/2013 17:23 (#3504987 - in reply to #3503262)
Subject: RE: Which SPFH?

Adelaide Hills, South Australia

I think that some of those choppers would out perform a FP240. Like most things you are probably better to stick with what is normal for your area to make it simple for parts and service. There possibly isn't enough dollars in it to bother stepping outside of the normal machines for your area. I just thought I would give you something else to think about, if nothing it gives more confidence in the choices made.

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