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drawbar or 3 point?
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frytownfarmer
Posted 11/21/2013 01:28 (#3458257)
Subject: drawbar or 3 point?



Frytown, Iowa

which is stronger? the kinze graincart snapping the drawbar made me think why not attach a heavy hitch to the quick hitch? unless the pto shaft gets in the way... john deeres planters that hook on the rocker quick hitch vs kinze planter drawbar hitches got me thinking as well, which hitch is stronger? thanks

kind of like this except heavier and a solid drawbar pin hole instead of the square tubing...  





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KMech
Posted 11/21/2013 03:42 (#3458269 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


Missouri
It's not a matter of which is stronger, but what type of force are you talking about. It's not a draft load that causes tongue failure, it's tongue weight.

Two point type hitching puts the tongue weight on the lift arms. Lift arms are much better suited for carrying that type of load. It's the reason they're there. I have wondered for some time now why no one makes a cart with a two point hitch. The only thing I can figure on it is it must be too hard to make clearance for the PTO driveshaft.
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Gerard
Posted 11/21/2013 05:52 (#3458334 - in reply to #3458269)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?



Woodham, Ontario
It will be harder to keep the front wheels on the ground. The tongue weight should be as close to the axle as possible.
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Gerald J.
Posted 11/21/2013 09:02 (#3458694 - in reply to #3458334)
Subject: And as close to the ground as possible.



And as close to the ground as possible. Most three points don't hold down, they only lift so with a heavy pulling load that hitch will lift and when the lift gets up to axle center (not that high even) the wheel torque will spin the tractor right up over the axle and it will land upside down on the wagon. The Fordson was notorious for that and farmers who tried to pull a stump with a chain wrapped around the axle housing usually didn't live to tell about it. You have to keep the hitch point low to prevent that. The three point won't accomplish keeping the hitch point low.

Gerald J.
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durallymax
Posted 11/21/2013 09:21 (#3458737 - in reply to #3458269)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


Wi

KMech - 11/21/2013 02:42 It's not a matter of which is stronger, but what type of force are you talking about. It's not a draft load that causes tongue failure, it's tongue weight. Two point type hitching puts the tongue weight on the lift arms. Lift arms are much better suited for carrying that type of load. It's the reason they're there. I have wondered for some time now why no one makes a cart with a two point hitch. The only thing I can figure on it is it must be too hard to make clearance for the PTO driveshaft.


Our Merger and many discbines use 2 point hitches and simply use the PTO to drive a hydro pump, possibly this would be needed for a cart to work this way?  It works good, but the merger will make our 2wd 8910 with a full rack of weights pop the front end in the air if you let the clutch out a little too quick.

Trent2520 - 11/21/2013 03:44 The U.S. standards for drawbars (16" behind 1000 rpm pto) is not good for heavy drawbar loads. They have it figured out in Europe. They do a lot more heavy hauling with tractors than we do here. They have hitches that are very close to the rear end housing of the tractor. This is the same effect as a gooseneck vs. a bumper hitch trailer. If you look at their trailers the axles are set back more and the tractor carries a much higher percentage of tongue weight. This improves traction, capacity, and handling.


x2, road transport is much safer there as tractors do the majority of it.  A lot of them use the Ball/spoon which puts the weight right at what would be considered the draw bar "support". Most allow the height to be adjusted as well. to have the proper hitch point.

Tilt - 11/21/2013 05:51 You have the right idea frytown,but I would go one step farther and mount or weld quick tach hooks on the end of the link arms to do away with the quick tach itself.


Why we use quick hitches in NA versus Walterschied ends still baffles me. After using them on our Fendt I wish everything had them.   

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Trent2520
Posted 11/21/2013 04:44 (#3458292 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: RE: drawbar or 3 point?



Statesville, NC
The U.S. standards for drawbars (16" behind 1000 rpm pto) is not good for heavy drawbar loads. They have it figured out in Europe. They do a lot more heavy hauling with tractors than we do here. They have hitches that are very close to the rear end housing of the tractor. This is the same effect as a gooseneck vs. a bumper hitch trailer. If you look at their trailers the axles are set back more and the tractor carries a much higher percentage of tongue weight. This improves traction, capacity, and handling.
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69roadrunner
Posted 11/21/2013 05:42 (#3458326 - in reply to #3458292)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


North of Iowa
One reason I went to a Brent cart, the old Knize was a lot more tongue heavy. Maybe new ones have changed.
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Tilt
Posted 11/21/2013 06:51 (#3458418 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?



South Western Ontario
You have the right idea frytown,but I would go one step farther and mount or weld quick tach hooks on the end of the link arms to do away with the quick tach itself.
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Minor Family Farms
Posted 11/21/2013 07:14 (#3458463 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


Kingston, Ohio
We have a drawbar support bracket that goes down under the drawbar and then you can pick your 3 point up a little bit to support it. Best of both worlds.

They make them for the heavy tongue weight on the 1200 planters but we use it on the cart as well
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ezzard
Posted 11/21/2013 07:40 (#3458519 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


SE IA
Throw a chain over the three point arms and under the drawbar right in front of the hitch pin, then raise the arms , get just enough tension to take most of the weight off of the drawbar. Problem solved. :)
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tjim
Posted 11/21/2013 08:14 (#3458592 - in reply to #3458519)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


California/Oregon
We've done just that. Works well.
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mohr-power
Posted 11/25/2013 07:42 (#3468021 - in reply to #3458519)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


West-Central IL
We used a chain around 3-pt and draw bar for a JD 750 drill without front dolly wheels. Quick, easy, and worked excellent!
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Minor Family Farms
Posted 11/21/2013 09:19 (#3458733 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: RE: drawbar or 3 point?


Kingston, Ohio

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wffoker
Posted 11/25/2013 08:09 (#3468091 - in reply to #3458733)
Subject: RE: drawbar or 3 point?


Ohio City Ohio
whats your reason for having the draw bar pulled out so far?
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Minor Family Farms
Posted 11/25/2013 11:25 (#3468481 - in reply to #3458257)
Subject: Re: drawbar or 3 point?


Kingston, Ohio
Turning radious
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