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Gleaner combine development history
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plowboy
Posted 7/9/2006 13:56 (#25078)
Subject: Gleaner combine development history



Brazilton KS

I've been rereading "Allis-Chalmers Farm Equipment" lately, just came back across the story of the development of the rotary.  The story says that they designed a 65" wide conventional combine, but it was not practical because it was "too wide" for custom harvestors to haul.  It had second driving controls on it's butt so that it could be driven down the road up to 35 mph in reverse.  Since this didn't work out, they moved on to the rotary. 

 

Now is it just me, or does this not make much sense?  First, the 8820, 860, 9600and following, Lexion, and even C62 all have about 65" wide cylinders, and they have all been hauled all over the world quite regularly.  But more importantly, the Gleaner rotary has it's rotor mounted cross wise.  The rotor is much longer then any cylinder is wide.  How does this produce a narrower width seperator?   

 

Yeah, I know, thinking too much again. 

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Steiger Man
Posted 7/9/2006 14:03 (#25080 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history


Sunburst Montana
When I visited the JD combine factory back in 1996, they told us JD tried a 70" wide cylinder but decided it would be too wide. I think the current Gleaner rotor is about 80" long or so. This pic is from the Gleaner site at harvesting.com. http://www.harvesting.com/combine/gleaner/photos/photos/Afc1.jpg JD started experimenting with rotaries in the 50s. Wish I could find some more info and pics on that.
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nitehunter
Posted 7/9/2006 20:34 (#25148 - in reply to #25080)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history


I read that Gleaner patented some of the rotary combine principles as early as 1936, but couldn't build prototypes until years later because the engines of the day couldn't make enough horsepower. As far as Deere's rotary program, the Nov-Dec issue of Two-Cylinder Magazine had a very brief story and a few pictures of prototypes dating back to 1956-1959.
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nitehunter
Posted 7/9/2006 20:41 (#25151 - in reply to #25148)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history


[Nov-Dec 2004]
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McCartman
Posted 7/10/2006 20:04 (#25368 - in reply to #25148)
Subject: Re: Gleaner combine development history



Curtis Baldwin himself experimented with rotory technology. But, as you say, power demands were too much for the day.
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Hop-a-long
Posted 7/9/2006 14:49 (#25086 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history



North West Kansas
I use to work for a guy who was around a combine that they hauled out to western KS on rail because it was to large for the roads.  He said it was only out there for one harvest, that was around the time they came out with the "L", which would have been around the time they were experimenting with the rotor.  Early 70's.
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Kelly
Posted 7/9/2006 16:45 (#25104 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history


NC KS
You got to keep in mind that this was done in the 60's when you hauled your AII or C on th back of your single axle farm truck from Texas to Canada. That is why the statement was made. I am pretty sure Gleaner was working on the project you mentioned in the 60's.
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Old Pokey
Posted 7/9/2006 18:25 (#25124 - in reply to #25104)
Subject: Very good point.


And probably with the racks, or at least one side rack still on.
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plowboy
Posted 7/9/2006 21:46 (#25172 - in reply to #25124)
Subject: RE: Very good point.



Brazilton KS
So does that mean that you can haul your N7 on the back of the single axle?  I'd like to see that Surprised
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Kelly
Posted 7/10/2006 07:48 (#25246 - in reply to #25172)
Subject: RE: Very good point.


NC KS
You are missing the point. The engineering you are talking about occurred in the 60's. A "G" Gleaner was a big machine and it probably weighed in at 7000# and had a overall height of 10'. The 70's brought about several crude combine trailers that could haul the bigger taller machines like L's, 760's, 7700's etc. Those trailers were crude at best but were state of the art at the time. They were using overgrown trailer house axles. Bigger machines in the late 70's brought about better trailers. Unfortunately, we are hauling all of these machines on the same highways they did in the 60's but we have machines weighing in at 30000-40000#, several feet wider.
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plowboy
Posted 7/10/2006 10:29 (#25281 - in reply to #25246)
Subject: RE: Very good point.



Brazilton KS
I understand that, but my point is that the rotary, as it was delivered in the N series, is not any different size wise then the conventionals which it was competitive with.
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Guest
Posted 7/10/2006 13:39 (#25311 - in reply to #25281)
Subject: The N's did not start production until '78


The 65 inch cylinder design from book was based on (at the time) a current combine design. The E/K, A/F, and C/G closed concave cylinder. I'm guessing they wanted this 65 inch machine before 1978. That's why they came up with the open concave 48 inch cylinder "L". More capicity in a smaller package. For Gleaner down front cylinder design with open concave cylinder gave them added capicity with a smaller cylinder.

For exsample: The 39 inch cyinder open concave "M" replaced the 45 inch closed concave "G" (I might be off a little on the cylinder size.)

Every design project has goals. Right or wrong one the goals for this one was how to transport the thing. Based on what they knew/thought was availible at the time.

By the time the N design got to production transporting combines had changed. The N6 was about same size as an 8820.
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McCartman
Posted 7/9/2006 18:04 (#25117 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: Re: Gleaner combine development history



Well, first off, the Deeres you mention ARE too big to haul easily. Secondly, as has already been pointed out, back when this thing was being planned, it was too large to haul easily. And thid, yes the Gleaner rotor is wide, but it sits above and hangs over the tires. A 65" wide cylinder with Gleaner's "Down front" locatiuon would force the tires to be mounted outside of that width causing excessive width.
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plowboy
Posted 7/9/2006 21:47 (#25173 - in reply to #25117)
Subject: Re: Gleaner combine development history



Brazilton KS

All conventional combines have the wheels outside the cylinder on each side, the 'down front' location wouldn't be any different. No matter if you look at conventional or at rotary every machine on the market is doing to be about 14' wide with singles on, or maybe a little less with duals with outside tires off.

I didn't see anything difficult about hauling the 9600's the summer I worked on harvest....you flop the ramps, drive them on, throw on some chains, raise the ramps and off you go. Same proceedure as hauling a rotary. Yes, it's not exactly loading them on a 2 ton with the sides off, but I'd like to see someone do that with an N7.

 

One other thought....wasn't the prototype the same width when it was driving down the road backwards as it would be if it were on a trailer?

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McCartman
Posted 7/10/2006 20:02 (#25367 - in reply to #25173)
Subject: Re: Gleaner combine development history



Around these parts, dealers either have to find a route to avoid overpasses when hauling Deeres or are forced to take tires off and set them on their bellies.

"it's not exactly loading them on a 2 ton with the sides off, but I'd like to see someone do that with an N7."

You answered your own question there. Of course an N7 or any modern combine will not fit on a 2 tonner - that is why the big Gleaner you are talking about never came to fruition in the '60's.
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plowboy
Posted 7/10/2006 21:55 (#25418 - in reply to #25367)
Subject: Re: Gleaner combine development history



Brazilton KS
Yes, but this "inability to haul" is cited as the reason for developing the rotary instead of the conventional.  It doesn't seem like a very good line of reasoning when the rotary is just as big as the conventional. 
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Red Painter
Posted 7/9/2006 22:09 (#25179 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history


Yes, that's true. One of the AC historical books I have has a pic of it. "Allis Chalmers Farm Equipment 1914-1985" It had a catwalk over the grain tank auger back toward the engine kind of like a 60's Deere 95Hillside. Had a 63.5inch separator. Could go 40 mph.
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Guest
Posted 7/10/2006 08:08 (#25251 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: I don't think semi's or heavy trailers were used....


I don't think semi's or heavy trailers were used by custom cutters when Gleaner was designing this 65 inch machine. Having said that. I'm sure if they would have build a larger machine the cutters would figured out how to move the thing.

The "65 inch" design Gleaner was working on here was based on the "C/CII & G" machines. So to keep the width down they designed the "L" which gave the capacity Gleaner was looking in the 65 inch design in a smaller package. By then I think Gleaner was going Rotor design for a Larger combine. So we didn't see a larger "L" design.

When did Deere and Massey go with a 60+ inch machine?

As for Rotary design I believe that goes back to pre 1900's
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John In Ontario
Posted 7/10/2006 17:53 (#25339 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: Re: Gleaner combine development history



Ripley, Ontario Canada
I have a C2 with the closed concave. If I went to something newer with the open concave I would gain that much more capacity. Is this more in cereals than corn, because I have problems keeping the grain from going over the walkers in wheat or barley, but have more capacity in soys or corn. This would mean even the F would be a step up??
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peanut farmer
Posted 7/11/2006 22:14 (#25701 - in reply to #25078)
Subject: RE: Gleaner combine development history


The Amadas self propelled peanut combine has a cylinder width of about 100".It is built on a 9000 series combine platform.It just shows that a much wider machine can be built.
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