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what is power beond?
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mrbean
Posted 2/8/2013 11:58 (#2884055)
Subject: what is power beond?


peidmont nc		What does power beyond mean on john deere tractors. Is see it advertised and talked about.
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Virginia Veg.
Posted 2/8/2013 12:12 (#2884077 - in reply to #2884055)
Subject: RE: what is power beyond?



Eastern VA. No such thing as too many Magnums.		It is an extra port to get full pressure hydraulics to run auxiliary devices when you dont have enough remotes. like loader valves, vac fans, motors, almost anything you can imagine.
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mrbean
Posted 2/8/2013 12:22 (#2884094 - in reply to #2884077)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


peidmont nc		So my 4440 with 2 remotes on the back would not constitute power beyond
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Red/Green
Posted 2/8/2013 12:30 (#2884107 - in reply to #2884094)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Elizabethtown,KY		Think of power beyond as another remote with no lever or valve, it is full pressure all the time.
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WillB
Posted 2/8/2013 18:35 (#2884739 - in reply to #2884107)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Ontario Canada
Red/Green - 2/8/2013 12:30

Think of power beyond as another remote with no lever or valve, it is full pressure all the time.


Thanks for answering tjis question. And thanks to the OP for asking.

Will it cut into the flow of oil runni g to the remotes?
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Red/Green
Posted 2/8/2013 19:27 (#2884878 - in reply to #2884739)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Elizabethtown,KY
WillB - 2/8/2013 18:35

Red/Green - 2/8/2013 12:30

Think of power beyond as another remote with no lever or valve, it is full pressure all the time.


Thanks for answering tjis question. And thanks to the OP for asking.

Will it cut into the flow of oil runni g to the remotes?


I ran the vacuum on a 1770-12 row planter off a power beyond, there was a needle valve plumbed into the pressure line with a thumb screw to adjust flow for the vacuum, so in this case you just use the flow and pressure required to maintain the correct vacuum which isn't all that much.
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M Thomas
Posted 2/8/2013 12:43 (#2884138 - in reply to #2884094)
Subject: Re: Here is what it looks like.



South Of Town.

z





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ccjersey
Posted 2/8/2013 12:56 (#2884162 - in reply to #2884055)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Faunsdale, AL		There is a spacer block you can add between the SCV casting and the rockshaft housing where it bolts to the tractor which has a pressure port and a return port in it. Maybe a port to dump to transmission sump, but I don't think so. You just use longer bolts and will need a longer control rod or maybe can adjust the one you have on the SCV that ends up being extended back about 1" to fit in the spacer. You can connect directly to the ports like you might when installing a loader joystick/control valve or plug them off if not using or install a set of couplers as shown in the picture above.
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mrbean
Posted 2/8/2013 13:11 (#2884188 - in reply to #2884162)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


peidmont nc		NWould that be the best thing to do to run a hydrolic spray pump?
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tedbear
Posted 2/8/2013 15:04 (#2884339 - in reply to #2884188)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.		You could use power beyond to run the spray pump if you are short on remotes. If you have an extra remote you can use it. The down side on using power beyond is that you would want a way to shut the pump off at times (empty tank etc.). This can be done with an electric solenoid in the line but it is just easier to use a regular remote if you have one available.

The oil coming back from the hydraulic pump can usually just plug into the other side of the remote. Another plan on those tractors was to buy a special sleeve that went between the regular cap and the tractor on the hydraulic filter. This required using a longer bolt. This sleeve had a port on it so that a hose could be screwed in for the return oil to go back to the tractor. This route has less back pressure and was sometimes needed for high volume situations so that the oil didn't get hot.

This may be where the oil gets back on the photo above. It is difficult to tell from that angle.

Edited by tedbear 2/8/2013 15:11
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Robert W Greif
Posted 2/8/2013 15:27 (#2884372 - in reply to #2884339)
Subject: Shut Off



Dallas Center IA 515-720-2463		A easy shut off is a problem with using Power Beyond to power a hydraulic spray pump.

It is seldom a problem for me as I very seldom run a tank empty. If I do not have enough spray mix in the tank to make another round, I do not make another round but refill the tank. I feel that makes for less driving in the crop and less crop damage.

To shut off a spray pump running off of power beyond you must stop the hydraulic oil flow, just like using a SCV.

Choices:

!- Use a electric solenoid.

2- Unhook the hose, the pressure hose only needs to be unhooked. Return hose can be left hooked up.
On my 4630 I can pull the hose out with the tractor running.
But the engine has to be shut off to hook the hose back up.

3- Put a hydraulic pressure rated ball valve in the pressure line.
You do have to get out of the cab to work this valve, but no engine shut down.

I use power beyond for all my hydraulic spray pumps. And all have the ball valve in the line.

In the picture the valve is to the right of the white oval.



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PatCMO
Posted 2/8/2013 17:06 (#2884540 - in reply to #2884372)
Subject: RE: Shut Off


Pilot Grove, Missouri		Bobby. Noticed you are straddling 3 rows with tractor and have the sprayer hitch offset. How many rows is the sprayer straddling. Patrick
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Robert W Greif
Posted 2/8/2013 18:07 (#2884668 - in reply to #2884540)
Subject: RE: Shut Off



Dallas Center IA 515-720-2463		Sprayer is 120" tread - 4 rows

Tractor is 90" - 3 rows

I would prefer 120" on the tractor, both front and rear, but 90" is a lot easier to do.

This is my corn spraying outfit.

I have another rig for 16" row soybeans. 120" on the sprayer. Tractor is a bit over 60" on the front, and 120" rear.

IF I have to spray big soybeans, I don't know what I will do.

Probably set a sprayer to 90" to match the Deere 4630.
Problem with that is the 4630 does not have the hydraulic to run the soybean sprayer as well as the White 2-135.
If I use the regular 4630 sprayer I have a shorter boom - More crop damage.

But better chance I would just hire it done.

Edited by Bobby Greif 2/9/2013 05:28




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PatCMO
Posted 2/8/2013 22:55 (#2885328 - in reply to #2884668)
Subject: RE: Shut Off


Pilot Grove, Missouri		Thanks. Patrick
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4WD
Posted 2/8/2013 18:56 (#2884790 - in reply to #2884372)
Subject: Here's my Shut Off


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

The black valve handle on top.

It takes a few turns to fully open or fully closed. But that is good, it slowly speeds up or slowly slows down the vacuum blower.









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Bruce NW Ia
Posted 2/8/2013 13:32 (#2884211 - in reply to #2884055)
Subject: Designed or Adapted????


Cherokee County, Northwest Iowa		Were those tractors designed for this power beyond, or was it an adaption due to the increased demand for numbers of SCV's?? I always assumed that luckily they could plumb the hydraulics that they could run the hyd. driven vacumn planters without tying up an existing SCV. When did the first vacumn Deere planters come out??? thanks bruce

Edited by Bruce NW Ia 2/8/2013 13:37
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4WD
Posted 2/8/2013 13:37 (#2884219 - in reply to #2884211)
Subject: RE: Designed or Adapted????


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

I link a thread that shows parts:

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=358741&mid=2822234#M2822234


If you go into all the posts, there are photos, too.   
   


  

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Gerald J.
Posted 2/8/2013 15:15 (#2884353 - in reply to #2884211)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?



Deere introduced the power beyond blocks with the side console 4020. I'd say its designed. Before that we got the effect of power beyond by replacing the elbow at the brake pedals that supplies pressure to the rock shaft valve with a T. And tapped the transmission oil filter for the return or bought one from Deere that was introduced with the 2640.

Gerald J.
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durallymax
Posted 2/8/2013 15:27 (#2884373 - in reply to #2884055)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Wi		Power beyond is common for Iso Bus operations now. Using simply full flow, and a remote in the cab to control an infinate number of functions. Look at the solenoid block in a pottinger V10 mower. Tons of different channels. Makes life much easier.
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Gerard
Posted 2/8/2013 16:28 (#2884471 - in reply to #2884373)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?



Woodham, Ontario		I have a pottinger V10 on order, should I get power beyond couplers on my JD 7930 or will it work fine using a SCV?
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durallymax
Posted 2/8/2013 21:21 (#2885164 - in reply to #2884471)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Wi

Gerard - 2/8/2013 15:28 I have a pottinger V10 on order, should I get power beyond couplers on my JD 7930 or will it work fine using a SCV?


I would double check with the dealer.

 We mounted ours on an 8940 and run it off of an SCV but use a straight to case drain which helps keep things cool.



Edited by durallymax 2/8/2013 21:23
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DREWSDAD
Posted 2/8/2013 16:47 (#2884505 - in reply to #2884055)
Subject: RE: what is power beond?


I have one not in use. The other thing I would recommend is to take the return back to filter, the system will run cooler.

Edited by DREWSDAD 2/8/2013 16:48
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ccjersey
Posted 2/8/2013 21:37 (#2885196 - in reply to #2884505)
Subject: RE: what is power beond?


Faunsdale, AL
DREWSDAD - 2/8/2013 15:47

I have one not in use. The other thing I would recommend is to take the return back to filter, the system will run cooler.


On our 4440 we also found that the return oil from hydraulic motors needs to "stay in the circuit" by returning through the SCV or power beyond block Or you could use a ported filter cover if you wanted, Did not work for us and I would say DO NOT return this oil to transmission case UNLESS you have a 3rd case drain line on your hydraulic motor. These need to be connected back to the rear end housing so no back pressure.

If you dump the return oil into the transmission case, the transmission lube/charge pump which pushes oil forward cannot deliver as much to the oil cooler as if the return oil stays in the circuit, returning between charge pump and front pump. Then the oil the charge pump picks up blends with the return oil and more oil flows through the front pump and on to the oil cooler, returning to the transmission case cooled. If you dump the return oil from a motor or other high volume hydraulic functions back into the transmission case, the front pump pushes a greater % of the oil that comes to it out to the hydraulic functions and less goes through the oil cooler. Oil returning from hydraulic functions is hot and heats up the transmission as well better to send it to the cooler where it needs to go instead of into the transmission.

When we got a vacuum planter, local Deere dealer mechanic recommended returning oil from vacuum motor to rear housing by removing a plug used for adjusting rock shaft linkage I believe and installing a coupler there. We didn't know any better and followed the recommendation until we found we didn't have enough hydraulic flow to operate vacuum motor, lift 3 pt hitch and row markers all at the same time. Were having to stop the vacuum motor to do the rest of the things and the rear housing was getting HOT! Finally thought about it and plugged the return hose into the SCV along with the pressure hose to the motor and all of a sudden we had a lot more hydraulic capacity and kept cooler.

When you use the SCV for a high speed hydraulic motor, you need to stop it by moving the lever into float instead of hold. So you operate the motor by pushing the lever forward to the lower position from hold and put a filler strip in the slot behind it, so it cannot be pulled back to hold, only pulled back far enough to operate motor. This keeps from suddenly locking the hydraulic pump up when you stop it.
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KTA
Posted 2/8/2013 22:16 (#2885274 - in reply to #2885196)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Good to read a post with the CORRECT information. The rubber filler strips are available under part number R54533. You cut it to the length you need. Also might add that the return oil flow from the cooler is routed to the transmisson lube circuit, so starving the low pressure side of the system is a double disaster.
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Red/Green
Posted 2/8/2013 19:23 (#2884863 - in reply to #2884055)
Subject: Re: what is power beond?


Elizabethtown,KY		I ran the vacuum on a 1770 -12 row planter for years with a power beyond on a 7810 I had at the time, I plumbed a ball valve just behind the hydraulic tip on the pressure hose, this way I could shut the vac off between fields or when changing varieties in a test plot, etc.
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