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IH_always

Posted 1/26/2013 19:06 (#2851935)
Subject: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Been using JD plus 50 oil in all my diesels but local truck mechanic said he would rather me not use JD oil in my C-15 engine in my semi tractor that he just overhauled. He likes Shell. Does it need break-in oil in it? What oil do you use for trucks and tractors? TIA.

Edited by IH_always 1/26/2013 19:33

nuyields

Posted 1/26/2013 19:16 (#2851964 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: RE: JD vs Rotella T oil?

SE MI

Rotella 15w40 in the heavier diesels.

4020R

Posted 1/26/2013 19:19 (#2851971 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Using JD plus 50 in 3406E for 7 years. Change oil at about 16K to 19K miles and done oil analysis the last 5 years and everything is fine. Truck has 950K miles and doesn't use oil. Think I would use a break in oil tho if its just overhauled.

ISACC

Posted 1/26/2013 19:38 (#2852019 - in reply to #2851971)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

NW OHIO

Shell used to make the oil for JohnDeere Now Deere bids it out whereever they can get best buy All my diesels run with Rotella15/40

lawfarms

Posted 1/26/2013 19:45 (#2852041 - in reply to #2852019)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

King City, Mo

2x on that, with deere biding the oil out to who ever makes it the cheapest your not going to get top quality oil.......

we have used rotella ever since i was little on the farm, red 50 gallon barrells, we get ours at sam's club alot cheaper then orschelns or anywhere else you can buy em.

mac4440

Posted 1/27/2013 05:43 (#2852568 - in reply to #2852041)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

lawfarms - 1/26/2013 18:45

2x on that, with deere biding the oil out to who ever makes it the cheapest your not going to get top quality oil.......

B.S. on that statement. Deere oil has to meet their specs, which are pretty high. Do you think they're going to use a less than top quality oil and then have engine warranties as long as they are now?

shaun3480

Posted 1/26/2013 20:15 (#2852121 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Phillips Co NW Kansas

One thing I didn't and don't like about JD oil and I believe CIH is the same way. Neither of them are API licensed. You really should check your owners manual for what type of oil you should run. I didn't know it until the other night but there is different oils for different engines and applications. There will be two letters. Oil for the older ones are not good for the newer later model engines but the other way around it works. Shell/Rotella is a good oil. I prefer Mobil but that is what I grew up on.

IFarmtoo

Posted 1/26/2013 21:46 (#2852317 - in reply to #2852121)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Eastern Iowa

Last year when I did the tour at the JD tractor plant in Waterloo Ia. The factory fill oil was supplied by Northland Oil Co. They are a local company in Waterloo and have their own test lab for quality control and sampling. I have only heard good reports about this co. Don't know if they still do it or not but the diesel oil spec. To look for now is CJ-4 except for break in oil for new engines which is API class CD or CE with 10w30 the recommended viscosity for break in. So if oil needs to be added in the break in period 10w30 CE or CD oil should be used.Then after that it's ok to use the Plus-50 15w40 or other 15w40 with CJ-4 rating.

bullhauler

Posted 1/26/2013 22:01 (#2852334 - in reply to #2852317)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Denhoff,ND right in the center of the State

I never knew this till lately either that JD bids out their oil to cheapest supplier, I use Rotella in all my diesel tractors and trucks now but am going to start switching to Schaffers oil in my equipment, our local Coop Elevator is a dealer for them and I like that I can just run into town and get whatever I need not run to Bismarck to get Rotella or order Amsoil everything is gonna get Schaffers make things simple. Terry

starvation

Posted 1/26/2013 22:11 (#2852353 - in reply to #2852334)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

rotella here

mac4440

Posted 1/27/2013 05:46 (#2852569 - in reply to #2852334)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Where does Schaffers get their oil from? I'm sure they don't have a refinery

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/27/2013 06:34 (#2852593 - in reply to #2852569)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

most oil companies buy their base stocks from refineries that are not owned by them. The reputable ones then buy additives from Infinium, or 1 of 2 other additive producers I've forgotten the names of, and blend their own oils and lubes. Some hire it done for them, JD at the cheapest bid they can get. JD oil that you can get in Kansas, therefore, may not be the same as the JD oil you get n California. I know a man that lkes to look at new oils under a microscope. He says JD oils are one of the dirtiest new oils he can find.

TP from Central PA

Posted 1/27/2013 07:16 (#2852629 - in reply to #2852593)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

You know, I laugh when I see all this BS on how bad deere oil is.................Had a 329 Deere irrigation engine with Deere Plus-50 in it, engine was a used combine engine that had zip done to it when we put it on the pump, bottom end looked good, but we wanted to make sure the rig would work before we went into it further. Had that sitting at the river pumping, left, someone drove down there later and called and say the engine wasn't running...............Went down to find the destruction. Water pump belt broke, local guys that put the murphy on it didn't wire it right, so it didn't work, engine kept running, got hot enough it blew the lower coolant hose off, drained it.............Kept running, block got so hot it burned off the paint down to about the crankshaft line and melted high temp RTV I used on a acouple things..........Must have been making some pressure in the case as it blew the dip stick into the river. Something shut it down, which I don't know for sure, but I guess the fuel boiled killing it...............Anyhow it was ROASTING when we got there, but was really supprised their wasn't a hole in the block............So, while bitting nails, I said just leave it cool naturally, we will come back later and see what the story is. 4 hrs later came back, found the dipstick sticking in the river sand, tried to crank it, supprisingly it cranked, didn't hear any noises. So we put the hose on, new belt, and filled it with water, wouldn't you know that old pig fired right up............No noise, knock, anything......Ran like a swiss watch! Brought it back to the shop, fixed the murphy, changed filter/oil, and filled it with anti-freeze..............Put 1000 hrs+ on it since then and have had zero trouble. I wasn't sold completely on Plus 50 at the time, but that made a believer out of me. So if that oil is the cheapest, dirtiest, junkiest oil out there, I am sold on it here!!!!!! Had it been anything else, I'd wager it would have broke down in that heat and would have remodeled the block with a nice skylight!

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/27/2013 08:04 (#2852710 - in reply to #2852629)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

I'll take that wager! Claas Cutter 600 hours on oil change. all tests normal!

Farms With CASE

Posted 1/27/2013 10:15 (#2853010 - in reply to #2852710)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

North Liberty and South Bend, Indiana

How about 400,000 miles before dropping the oil? Granted it was an OTR truck with a secondary filtration system but any which way that is a lot of miles.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=...

fairviewfarmer

Posted 1/27/2013 16:58 (#2853998 - in reply to #2852710)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

600 hrs before you change oil? I'll keep on doing things my own way with the brand of oil I've been using. thank you.

Farms With CASE

Posted 1/27/2013 19:14 (#2854383 - in reply to #2853998)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

North Liberty and South Bend, Indiana

If the oil samples are coming back and saying that the oil is still suitable for use why not go 600 hrs or more?

fairviewfarmer

Posted 1/27/2013 20:11 (#2854569 - in reply to #2854383)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

do as you wish, its your equipment, not mine. :)

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/28/2013 02:51 (#2855158 - in reply to #2854569)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

right back at you! Do as you wish! It's your money, not mine! Actually those of us in the business of selling lubricants like it when you don't get the maximum use out of our product before you change it. You're old school and not with it if you don't use oil analysis to tell you when you need to change oil, what's going on in your engine, etc.

Edited by Larry NCKS 1/28/2013 02:52

fairviewfarmer

Posted 1/28/2013 07:29 (#2855303 - in reply to #2855158)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil? Example....

Call me old school again, I take that as a compliment!! :)

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/28/2013 16:38 (#2856275 - in reply to #2855303)
Subject: Don't

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

because it wasn't! :-)

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/26/2013 22:16 (#2852360 - in reply to #2852317)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

CJ-4 is not needed except in Tier 4 diesels. The most commonly needed diesel oil in pre-Tier 4 diesel engines is CI-4 or CI-4 plus.

RickB

Posted 1/27/2013 05:22 (#2852560 - in reply to #2852121)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Lincoln County. NC

shaun3480 - 1/26/2013 20:15

One thing I didn't and don't like about JD oil and I believe CIH is the same way. Neither of them are API licensed. You really should check your owners manual for what type of oil you should run. I didn't know it until the other night but there is different oils for different engines and applications. There will be two letters. Oil for the older ones are not good for the newer later model engines but the other way around it works. Shell/Rotella is a good oil. I prefer Mobil but that is what I grew up on.

CHN oils carry API ratings right on the package. I'd be shocked if Deere oils didn't, but I don't buy, sell, or use it so I don't know for certain. I'd be willing to bet that the Deere oil has better spec's than the Shell especially Total Base number. Rotella has been dumbed down over the years and sells more on reputation and price than quality.

Edited by RickB 1/27/2013 05:22

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/27/2013 06:44 (#2852599 - in reply to #2852560)
Subject: API licensee web-site

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

Here's the API web-site: http://eolcs.api.org/ If a company has paid their annual API license fee, their licensed products will appear on this web-site. There are four New Holland oils on this site, no CIH oils and no JD oils. JD oils, to the best of my knowledge, have never been API licensed. It's been awhile, but what exactly does the CNH package say on it? Does it have the API seal on it, or just say it will work for API spec such and such? Likely, since you are a Ford/NH person you have seen some API seals on some oils.

That said, I do see an error or two in the Archer listings. For instance, our Gold 15W-40 is shown as CH-4, CI-4/SL when it is actually a CJ-4/SM

Edited by Larry NCKS 1/27/2013 06:45

jalopy

Posted 1/27/2013 10:02 (#2852977 - in reply to #2852599)
Subject: RE: API licensee web-site

NC IA

Viscosity Oil Co., (manufacturer of CIH lubes) is registered with the API. CIH No. 1 15-40 has the API seal on it and is rated CH-4 & CI-4. Viscosity's name is right on the bucket.

shaun3480

Posted 1/27/2013 11:58 (#2853278 - in reply to #2852599)
Subject: RE: API licensee web-site

Phillips Co NW Kansas

I was pretty sure I wasn't blind and could read. I scanned through that list twice looking for the oil that the different colors tell us we "have" to run to maintain warranty and couldn't find them.

RickB

Posted 1/27/2013 18:09 (#2854178 - in reply to #2852599)
Subject: RE: API licensee web-site

Lincoln County. NC

Viscosity has over a dozen oils listed under their brand with Case, CNH and New Holland labels.

Viscosity has been an API licensee since 1994 and has formulated oils for CaseIH and New Holland for at least that long. Longer for sure for CaseIH.

The New Holland branded engine oils that I sell are all clearly marked with the API circle logo except for SAE 30W. I would suggest that if Viscosity is paying to license CNH and Case branded oils, the API seal appears on those packages as well.

Edited by RickB 1/27/2013 18:15

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/26/2013 22:18 (#2852367 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

Neither of those would be my choice. There are better oils out there than either of those and certainly than the JD oils.

nuyields

Posted 1/26/2013 22:26 (#2852383 - in reply to #2852367)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

SE MI

So your choice is??

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/27/2013 00:04 (#2852512 - in reply to #2852383)
Subject: Archer

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

Lot's of folk on this forum already know that. And I'm likely to get flamed because I've not only used it for all but about 2 years of my early lubricant using life, but I'm an Archer distributor. As such I've seen all kinds of unpretty oil samples from other companies and heard the testimonies as well as sob stories. Unfortunately, Archer is a regional company and has been since 1929. I don't think it's available in MI.

Edited by Larry NCKS 1/27/2013 00:10

Cyjd

Posted 1/27/2013 08:42 (#2852788 - in reply to #2852512)
Subject: RE: Archer

Thoughts on cenex?

Whipper

Posted 1/26/2013 22:27 (#2852386 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: RE: JD vs Rotella T oil? Some Clarification

It is not quite fair saying that Deere "hires out to the cheapest supplier". Although true - not completely true. Deere contracts out to the cheapest supplier that can blend the oil to "Deere specs". Quite a difference.. A few years ago EXXON made Deere oil for them and made it exactly to their specs -in fact one of the additives were supplied by Deere. There was no EXXON oil that matched the Deere blend - none. A few years later SHELL got the contract and blended the DEERE oil, same thing - no SHELL oil matched the DEERE formula. So yes DEERE cotracts out to the lowest supplier "that can blend to the DEERE spec.". I worked at EXXON during the periods we blended their oil, I can remember at least 3 times EXXON supplied DEERE with their oil blend. We also supplied, GM, Toyota, Husquvarna, Chrysler, Ford, Stihl and many others over the years. Some companies used an EXXON blend and put their own label on it but others( DEERE for one) had their very own specfic blend. Is DEERE oil better than SHELL Rotella or visa versa - only you can make that decision.
On a side note - there have been TREMENDOUS strides made in oils over the past 10-15 years, oils today are light years ahead of the old oils. After seeing the changes and working in the industry for 40 years I still smile when I hear the phrase " I change my oil every 3000 miles I don't care what the manufacturer says". Personally it's good for my pension check, it keeps them coming in.

Whipper

Fiftyniner

Posted 1/26/2013 23:43 (#2852500 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Interesting that people are knocking deere's oil for being farmed out to their specs.......at the same time buying oil from Walmart. I'm sure they (Walmart and Sam's) only request the highest spec'd oil.

Edited by Fiftyniner 1/26/2013 23:43

Dennis SEND

Posted 1/26/2013 23:54 (#2852506 - in reply to #2852500)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Fiftyniner - 1/26/2013 22:43

Interesting that people are knocking deere's oil for being farmed out to their specs.......at the same time buying oil from Walmart. I'm sure they (Walmart and Sam's) only request the highest spec'd oil.

If it comes in a Shell Rotella barrel that is what you are getting no matter where you buy it, however if you are buying Walmart/Sam's club private labeled oil then you are getting "whatever"

bullhauler

Posted 1/27/2013 09:42 (#2852923 - in reply to #2852500)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Denhoff,ND right in the center of the State

Actually Walmart does sell a good oil, I have seen test done on it and it is above some other high name companies. My FIL uses it in some of his older vehicles. Terry

easymoney

Posted 1/27/2013 06:49 (#2852605 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

ecmn

can we stop with the BS of they bid it out to the cheapest source already? its a dumb comment. they have a level of quality that the maker of the oil must meet. you could have john deere oil and discount store oil come from the same factory but they have different spec requirements so one of them could be very good oil, and the other junk, or any combination in between.

with that said i grew up using john deere oil, on my own little farm studys i have switched to mobile devlac or rotella. is john deere bad? nope never ever seen a tractor come into the shop with john deere oil in it and that being the cause of the break down.

farmdude

Posted 1/27/2013 08:00 (#2852696 - in reply to #2852605)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

If you know an Archer distrbutor in your area ask them about there oil meetings. You will learn more about oil in that one meeting then you will ever thought possible. My guy invtes me to one every year an I look forward to it very much.

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/27/2013 08:03 (#2852705 - in reply to #2852696)
Subject: plus - you'll normally get a great meal

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

anyway my guys always do!

farmdude

Posted 1/27/2013 08:11 (#2852725 - in reply to #2852705)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Yes very good meal.

shaun3480

Posted 1/27/2013 12:00 (#2853285 - in reply to #2852696)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Phillips Co NW Kansas

I went to one about a week ago and learned a ton of info I didn't know. Learned alot about the different colors "oil" and the the yellow bucket(Orschelns) hydraulic oil. I would strongly urge anyone that has time to attend one of those meetings.

commissioner

Posted 1/27/2013 20:45 (#2854693 - in reply to #2853285)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

southern Illinois

Tell us about the yellow bucket hyd oil, have always seen the cheap oil but never bought it.

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/28/2013 03:00 (#2855160 - in reply to #2854693)
Subject: Yellow bucket oil

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

Don't!!!!! It was designed to meet specs in the 30 & 4010 and 20 Deeres 50 years ago. It does not meet specs for modern equipment, promotes leaks in modern seals, and extreme wear in modern transmission/hydraulic systems. Its Viscosity Index (the rate at which temperature change affects its flowability) is only 50, where Archer's Uni-Fluid XP transdraulic fluid has a VI of 145 and our Low-Viscosity Uni-Fluid XP has a VI of 200. The higher the VI, the less flowability change there is with fluctuating temperature.

Hampton

Posted 1/27/2013 09:18 (#2852861 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: This site has lots of answers

http://www.pqiamerica.com/index.html

Check it out!!

bullhauler

Posted 1/27/2013 09:52 (#2852946 - in reply to #2852861)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Denhoff,ND right in the center of the State

It all boils down to what you like and what you want to spend to keep your equipment running the longest and whats best for it, I dont think the oil samples lie, guys pull some tests on your oil and send them in, I personally know of a good trucking freind of mine, he had oil samples done a Cat, and they came back with anitfreeze in the sample, he could not figure this out on a new engine OH so pulled new Rotella 15w40 out of a 55 gal drum and sent in, came back the same way with antifreeze in it, needless to say this was a few years back when they reused the barrels and someone apparently used the drum for antifreeze before sent in too get cleaned and reused, but never got fully cleaned, he bought all his oil in new 5 gal plasitic pails after that. Terry

garvo

Posted 1/27/2013 10:05 (#2852982 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

western iowa,by Denison

amazing as the additive is less then 3% of the oil to change specs to the brand you prefer

8320farmer

Posted 1/27/2013 10:17 (#2853018 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

East central Indiana

how bout following the recommendations of the mechanic thats gonna warranty that motor if it has trouble. if a mechanic i was using told me to use something special in a motor they just had tore down. You bet i would be using it.

IH_always

Posted 1/27/2013 11:46 (#2853249 - in reply to #2853018)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

I told the mechanic to put in the Rotella T 15w-40 oil (He has that on hand). Since he is giving me the lifetime warranty. He just smiled.

Edited by IH_always 1/27/2013 11:51

fairviewfarmer

Posted 1/27/2013 11:36 (#2853218 - in reply to #2851935)
Subject: RE: JD vs Rotella T oil?

I have used JD oil exclusively for 27 years and my Dad used JD oil exclusively for 35 yrs. before that. Somehow I/we managed to still stay in business. My only regret of still using their oil is I now drive 75 miles to get it at a different JD dealer, instead of the local dealership that ran me off.

luxford

Posted 1/28/2013 03:00 (#2855161 - in reply to #2853218)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Mid North, South Australia, australia

There are too many posts here to read them all.. But my too cents. You won't have any trouble with jd oil, they do bid it out to the cheapest supplier, however it all has to reach the specs on the side of the drum.. So its the cheapest supplier who can make that quality of oil. The better oils far exceed the specs named, while the cheaper ( cheaper made, not necessarily sold for) may just reach those specs... Either way they are fine if that's the grade of oil recommended for the job. I wouldn't be surprised if shell oil is better than Jd oil for that reason, however if they both meet the grade of oil required they will both be fine. Jd, cat, case whoever all make money from selling rebranded oil that they buy cheaper than they sell it to you... Of course! So if your happy to use their rebranded oil then really there's no problem.. It's your money spend it on the colour can that you like.
I prefer Castrol oils here for my big diesels, and tend to by case/johns/massy oil if there is a hydraulic or trans requirement that is different from the majority of my machinery.. Just to save on any mix ups when topping up etc.

Larry NCKS

Posted 1/28/2013 03:09 (#2855164 - in reply to #2855161)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Washington, Kansas & Lincoln, Nebraska

To a certain point. The specs printed on a JD bucket are something they claim, however they are not an API licensed product. Say for instance one is using JD engine oil exclusively on his/her farm. It's put in his/her '10 Ford 6.4 diesel engine which is still under warranty. Something happens to the engine in question. Ford can legally (and likely will) deny warranty on this engine for the sheer fact that the JD oil is not API licensed. JD may claim it meets the CJ-4 spec, but neither they nor their supplier have licensed it to do so.

farmdude

Posted 1/28/2013 16:07 (#2856216 - in reply to #2855164)
Subject: Re: JD vs Rotella T oil?

Just attended my oil meeting today. Sure learned a lot as usual. Nobody I know has quite the oil meeting like Archer puts on. Attend one if you can it could save you thousands.

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