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hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me
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mdnelson86
Posted 8/6/2012 09:57 (#2524653)
Subject: hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me


Paxton, IL

My understanding of hydraulics is pretty limited at this point in life.  I've been looking at newer tractors and have seen a whole bunch of different hydraulic connectors on the back and I honestly don't know what they all are for.  I've got a couple MX magnums that have these fittings and I'm looking at upgrading a 9130 to a newer steiger tractor.  my 9130 pulls our 1200 planter and only has a single extra hydraulic coupler for the motor return that I believe dumps back into the resevoir, but I may not have that totally right. 

If you could, give me an explanation of why there are so many different couplers now and what they're intended use is?  I hear terms such as case drain, load sense, power beyond, motor return, etc and want to know exactly what I'm talking about.

thanks

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mr8850
Posted 8/6/2012 10:21 (#2524677 - in reply to #2524653)
Subject: Re: hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me


Minot ND
The saleman should know.
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NEILFarmer
Posted 8/6/2012 11:00 (#2524720 - in reply to #2524677)
Subject: Re: hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me


Morris, IL
Haha, salesman should know that but i'd bet most don't, I do know of one that was main service tech and he could tell you but most can't. Talk to a good Case IH tech or really good parts man, it's easiest if you find one with lots of tractors on the lot so they can show you which is which. I know our Magnum there is what's called motor return ports, one is case drain with no back pressure and one is bigger with different style coupler that requires a little pressure. They dump into same line so it really all has to do with the coupler. I know some magnums have power beyond which to my understanding is under pressure when ever motor is running. Then again there are load sense and non load sense power beyond, now i'm confused. I believe you have a MX255 right, the manual gives a good description of what each port is made for, how to use them, and what the regular tractor remotes can handle.
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CMWS
Posted 8/6/2012 13:28 (#2524912 - in reply to #2524653)
Subject: Re: hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me


Pressure; Will give you unadultered, constant flow and pressure (full system pressure) unless you are using the LS line.
Tank; Typically a "low restriction" return. These are typically filtered, but there is less restriction than going through a normal spool valve remote
LS: Load sense line will allow you to plumb into a circuit on an implement that has a LS system. The load sense line will stroke or destroke the pump based on demand through that circuit.
Case Drain, typically a very low restriction return specifically for plumbing into the case drain port of a hyd motor.
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Gerald J.
Posted 8/6/2012 13:49 (#2524928 - in reply to #2524653)
Subject: Re: hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me



In an open center valve that's the last or only valve on a system, the single oil return passes all oil to the return line going to the sump through a filter when no valve is operated. And when a valve is operating a double acting cylinder that line takes the return oil from the slack side of the cylinder. Because it takes they cylinder (or motor) return oil, its not suitable for other hydraulic loads. The power beyond option on that valve separates the pass through oil from the load return oil. The pass through oil can go to another valve for more actions, that power is called power beyond. In the open center system flow is constant, but pressure only rises as hydraulic loads restrict the flow.

In a closed center system, the pressure is held constant and there's no flow when no valves are operated. There is the return port for return oil from cylinders and motors. That's low pressure going to the sump usually through a filter. The valve can often support power beyond, which is usually plugged until connected to another valve. Power beyond again has constant pressure, but not cylinder or motor return oil.

These are what ordinary systems have, what tractor makers to make variations on these I don't know for red tractors.

Motors can have two returns. One for catching the leaks from shaft seals, the other for the return oil which has the full motor oil flow. Some motors have sturdy seals on the pressure side of the shaft and weak seals on the return side so they aren't reversible. The weak seals on the return side sometimes can't stand the back pressure of valve, filter, and common tractor return circuits (on a 4020 the return is to the output of the transmission charge pump, usually 200 to 250 psi) so those motors get returned directly to the sump. Trouble can be that like the 4020, the flow of the transmission pump is smaller than the main pump depending on the cooler/reservoir to keep the main pump supplied with the hydraulic loads are returned to the proper return. Returning motor oil to the sump can short change the front pump and disable most hydraulic loads, like steering and brakes.

A load sense hydraulic system keeps pressure down while there's no loads, but sometimes with a separate hose detects when a load is going to take flow and develop pressure to raise the operating pressure of the pump. This is most like a closed center system, but the load sense reduces pump shaft power when there are no hydraulic loads.

One of the catalog sections from Baum Hydraulics has several tutorials on hydraulics. www.baumhydraulics.com

Gerald J.
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Offroadnt
Posted 8/6/2012 15:01 (#2525003 - in reply to #2524653)
Subject: Re: hydraulic theory - explain all the power beyond connections to me


Southern Alberta Canada
Load sensing hydraulics run a standby pressure of usually around 200 to 500psi, when a load is applied it will always maintain that pressure over the highest demand pressure to max set pressure. Case tractors from the 90 series on use load sensing hydraulics. John Deere ran closed center since the '60s, they switched over to load sense with the 00 series four wheel drives.
The load sense port on your tractor needs to be tied into a load sense style valve on your implement, it needs the ability to pressurize the load sense line when operating then dump it to tank when idle in order to work with the load sensing valves on the tractor.
Power beyond actually only applies to open center systems, it's basically a flow diverter built into the upstream valve. What happens is when you operate the upstream valve pump oil is diverted to that section and returned to tank bypassing downstream valves thus making them inoperable until the upstream valve is returned to nuetral. For closed center and load sensing systems power beyond is just a tee in the pump line, the valve with the least resriction gets oil first up to it's flow setting then oil is shared with the next lowest restriction and so on. There are valves that will attempt to share oil as equal as possible between sections and demand.
Case drains are bleed off ports on the motor cases that prevent pressure buildup within the case and blowing shaft seals. They are typically used where return oil pressure can build due to restrictions caused by filters, long lines, components tyed in downstream such as motors in series and such.
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