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cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 15:05 (#2082562)
Subject: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

A few days ago we got the chance to demo an assortment of track tractors. First off, I want to thank Titan of Blairstown for bringing the 600 Quad, Green Valley Ag & Turf for bringing the 9530T, and Altorfer for the Challenger 835C by. Keep in mind this was not a HP comparison, but a comparison of which track tractors will allow us to achieve the most ac/hr in an array of conditions, while using the tractors features to allow us as operators to do the best job possible. We spend 15-18 hrs covering 450-500+ acres/day in these tractors which means we need options(fuel capacity, lighting, operator comfort,one touch controls) that will allow us to do a good job day and night.

Tractors were demoed over no-till bean stubble and COC worked by a Dominator.

Case 600 quad
Pros:
LIGHTS! -Awesome lighting package with LOTs of HIDs but could have had the four behind cab HIDs too!
Ride- Amazing ride in field,through waterways, across rows, down the road(pavement or gravel) with the suspended cab. Rides better than the 9630 down the road because you don't get the bouncing.
Cab Size and Accessibility-The right hand door opens all the way to allow to run cabling, cleaning(cab, windows) very easy.
Cab features- The seat swivels 40 degrees so instead of turning around and looking over the seat(deere and cat), you can swivel all the way see the whole bar without straining your back all day.
Fuel Capacity- 475 gals gets you a good full day of running and then some.

Cons:
Autosteer engage button-Case advertises "every vital operation, one simple controller" so you don't have to take your hand off the joystick control. BUT, you do still have to engage the autosteer which is the number one vital control these days. Also the engage button is hard to push and not in a good location being so close to the fold up arm rest. Should make it a feature on the joystick then it might be the ultimate tractor.
Fuel Consumption and DEF-33gals/hr when pulling hard will really suck down the tank. We would have to think about away how to tote around large quantity of DEF to refuel these tractors which would be a hassle.
Autosteer-At this time we can't use our John Deere RTK 3000s and 2600s to control autosteer on the new 600.

Overall opinion on the Case 600- Awesome tractor, enjoyable to spend 15-18 hrs in and still get out at the end of the day and not be beat to death. Pros out weigh the Cons in my book.

Deere 9530T
Pros:
Itec Pro- Love this feature wish every tractor had this!

Cons:
Track spun out in corners! Had to back up because we couldn't even make a corner!
Ride- Was the worst down the road by far of all three. Could still feel the ridges on the worked ground when going across rows.
Factory Hydraulic Controlled Drawbar!!!! COME ON DEERE GET IT TOGETHER....you will be left behind when you don't even make this an option on the new RTs when you had the chance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuel Capacity- 330 gals wont get us a days use.
Lights-Even on the new RTs they should offer more HID lights!!!!!!!!!
Cab- Has the least amount of cab space.
No Active Seat available with tracks.

Overall opinion- John Deere Engineers...you better make a quad track SOON!

Cat 835C
Pros:
The lugging power of this engine is just unbelievable. Get it down to 1500-1400 rpms and will just keep going! Deere would fall on its face if it got down that low. Surprisingly this tractor only being 410hp keep up with the 600, 9530, and 9630 when hooked to the 24 knife in the COC ground.
Turning-Was able to turn corners with the draw bar pinned on COC and bean stubble. Having a FACTORY hydraulic swing hitch would just make it that much easier to turn.
Ride- Awesome ride(road and field) but just wasn't as good as the quad. The quad won because of having the suspended cab along with the four independent tracks.
Joystick-Love the gear shift joystick compared to Deere and Case. Will be able to autosteer, hit master on/off toggle and shift gears without taking hand off of joystick.
Decelerator- Has the best Decelerator pedal by far and was fun to use compared to Deere! Don't really have to use it though when you have your A & B RPM presets set.

Cons:
Cab-Has the room, but just not as nice as a Deere or Case!
Hitch-Need Cat V Hitch!
Lights- Needs more lights, not as bright compared to the Case!
Fuel Capacity-305 gals isn't going to cut it for the acres we cover.

Overall opinion- I feel an 875C would out pull the 600 quad!

This was a very fun test and glad I was given the opportunity to demo all three tractors side by side compared to our wheeled 9630 &9530s. Overall the wheeled tractors needs to go after riding in tracks over the various fields conditions we ran over. We found we can run 1-2 mph faster with tracks compared to the wheeled tractors. Over the the three days we tested we applied 1000+ acres of nh3 on mostly COC and bean stubble with rates of 140-220 units of N with speeds ranging from 6.5-8.7mph.

Edited by cdeklotz 12/4/2011 11:25

(600.jpg)

(bean stubble.jpg)

(corner post.jpg)

(front lights.jpg)

(lights.jpg)

(cat 835c.jpg)

(john deere 9630.jpg)

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600.jpg (47KB - 370 downloads)
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bean stubble.jpg (39KB - 350 downloads)
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corner post.jpg (12KB - 346 downloads)
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front lights.jpg (35KB - 345 downloads)
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lights.jpg (35KB - 325 downloads)
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cat 835c.jpg (64KB - 337 downloads)
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john deere 9630.jpg (41KB - 470 downloads)

Sprout

Posted 12/3/2011 15:38 (#2082592 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Thanks for sharing. I am surprised that John Deere isn't keeping up with the competition in the tracked category. I demoed an 8400T years ago and lost all interest with how one track would spin out and in some cases I had to lift the ripper out of the field to get away from a lane or fence row. I decided tracks weren't in my future. I might have to consider a Cat though. There are many positive comments on the site about them.

Bob MI

Posted 12/3/2011 15:47 (#2082600 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Ionia Co. Michigan

Just got a small magnum and the case rep told me there was an update coming for auto steer resume. They are going to use the end of row button on the left side of the throttle for your thumb. He said it would be out hopefully late winter early spring. This only matters if the throttle handle setup is the same, I'm not sure.

pnwfarmboy

Posted 12/3/2011 16:13 (#2082621 - in reply to #2082600)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

How was the Quads shifting? We demoed a 9639T before we bought our last Quad and the deere definitely shifted much smoother than the Quad but that is the main complaint we have about the Quad. Do you have any more pictures of for anhydrous applicators?

mennoboy

Posted 12/3/2011 16:25 (#2082627 - in reply to #2082621)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Rivers, MB

i'd agree on the shifting. We have a STX375 quad and a 9520T. The JD has a way nicer PS. Demoed a 600Quad this fall for a day. JD's PS is still way smoother and nicer to operate. Maybe the 30 series PS is worse but I doubt it.

To the original poster.

Thanks for the results. Sounds like a very nice way to compare all tractors at the same time. Tough to do now adays with all the monitors that need to be in the cab to run anything.

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 16:27 (#2082633 - in reply to #2082621)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

The quads shifting was noticeable at times but the 9630 when shifting from 11th to 12th can be bad if not worse depending on the load. What kind of pictures would you like of the nh3 bars??

CaseFarmer

Posted 12/3/2011 16:52 (#2082664 - in reply to #2082633)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Flora IL

U can progrM the autosteer to engage useing the programable butt on on the lever... They should have done that for u

Big Stretch

Posted 12/3/2011 16:53 (#2082665 - in reply to #2082633)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

SE Neb

How were each weighted? Your request or from dealer specs?

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 17:01 (#2082668 - in reply to #2082665)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Weighted from dealer by there specs.

Jim Beam

Posted 12/3/2011 18:47 (#2082802 - in reply to #2082600)
Subject: End of row button = auto engage

Roaming the plains

You can program the EOR button to do the auto engage. Takes about 10 seconds to program.

Did you use the APM "cruise control"? May help on fuel if the loads vary. I think the AGCO Challenger has cruise.

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 18:52 (#2082812 - in reply to #2082802)
Subject: RE: End of row button = auto engage

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

The Case tractor controls was all new to us being all green. So my question now are...is the end of the row button used to program to raise the implement or both raise when entering headland and lower when exiting? or can i use it like the "IMS" in a deere where 1 forward i have set to lower my implement and turn on Diff and 2 is back which raises and shuts of the Diff? Also I didn't mess with or neither shown how you run the cruise control feature is either the case or cat. I did however use the a and b rpm presets in the cat.

Edited by cdeklotz 12/3/2011 18:54

CaseFarmer

Posted 12/3/2011 19:09 (#2082835 - in reply to #2082812)
Subject: RE: End of row button = auto engage

Flora IL

U can have it do several functions at once or.... Have it step threw each function each time u hit the button...

Jim Beam

Posted 12/3/2011 19:20 (#2082851 - in reply to #2082812)
Subject: RE: End of row button = auto engage

Roaming the plains

Shame on your dealer salesman for not showing you.

The EOR can be programmed to do hydraulics, 3 pt hitch, auto guide, engine throttle presets, etc. It can be split up for raising at end of field and then lowering after turning around. Been able to do this for years just as Deere has been. I'm not familiar with what the AGCO tracked tractors can operate and the setup.

The APM usually can back the throttle down when not needed and save fuel. Even if it's 1/2 a gpm it can add up. Friends 340 Magnum can save .5-1.5 gpm when used.

Newguy

Posted 12/3/2011 16:25 (#2082630 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Renville Minnesota

Glad Case got the vibrations out of the cab, I still worry about the rest of the tractor, v v v v v v v vvibrations. It needs suspension other than the cab to keep the small stuff from breaking, like hoses, hyd pump mount, and hopefully the new idler rollers have seals that will last more than 3,000 hrs.

I will disagree with you on the niceness of cab category, but respect your opinion.

We did your same demo back in 2002, ended up with a Quad, last year we went Cat due to the durabilitys of our mt 700s compared to the quadtrack. Never demoed a deere due to, Lookin at it.

Have fun, another black doughnut machine bites the dust.

:)

Edited by Newguy 12/3/2011 16:30

mx270a

Posted 12/3/2011 16:51 (#2082661 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

I think it's interesting that you mentioned dislike for the Quad's auto-steer engage button. I think that whole right hand console took a step backwards. The problem is that the buttons are all identical, meaning that you have to visually look at them to press the right one. 20 years ago, the levers and buttons were unique enough that you could find the right one just by feel. Also, that park/forward/reverse lever seemed a little strange to me compared to the older Quads and Magnums.

What CNH should have done with the hand control throttle lever thing is to make those buttons customizable. That way when a button is pressed, it does some sequence of actions. For those of us that will never use a three point on a big tractor, we don't need a three point up/down button handy like it is on that lever.

zoid

Posted 12/3/2011 18:11 (#2082747 - in reply to #2082661)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Illinois

Just like typing. Get used to the position of your hand and dont look. My hand stretches at times but can control almost every type of field work. Deere tractors here.

M&M Acres

Posted 12/3/2011 18:16 (#2082757 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

north central IA

Interesting how some people compare featurs versus others. I have ran a 535 quad, 9530T, and 865B on nh3 bars over the last 3 years. I rated them 9530T, then the 535 quad and last 865B.

Farmitall

Posted 12/3/2011 18:21 (#2082761 - in reply to #2082757)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Oak, Missouri

Thanks cdeklotz for taking the time to share the information. The new STX cabs are alot nicer IMO, no more bone fragments in my right elbow from hitting back window. haha Were all machines pretty close to zero hrs when you started the demo?

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 18:25 (#2082773 - in reply to #2082761)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

The quad had 171 hrs on it I think...The Deere had 16hrs and the 835c was 580hrs.

collegeboy

Posted 12/3/2011 19:30 (#2082872 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Slicker than a Yes album.

I agree on the hyd drawbar, Cole. Too bad they didn't get you a new 9RT to demo, those cabs are a bit nicer. And the fuel tank could be bigger, agreed.

Ron..NE ILL..10/48

Posted 12/3/2011 19:56 (#2082906 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Chebanse, IL.....

Thanks for sharing your views.

Why do you not belittle Caterpillar for not having a quadtrack? Your overall opinion of JD didn't seem to have anything to do w/the testing.

Overall opinion- John Deere Engineers...you better make a quad track SOON!

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 20:18 (#2082947 - in reply to #2082906)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Because i feel we havent gained anything from Deeres new RTs and if they want to stay in the game they may well look at building a quad since they dont have a good enough two track design to be competitive.

I like the Challengers design and would love to run a 875c...just little things about it that wish was different.

Edited by cdeklotz 12/3/2011 20:21

Smoothlander

Posted 12/3/2011 20:29 (#2082964 - in reply to #2082947)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Had a neighbor, that is all Green except their 875's tell me that they rented a 600 Quad this fall and felt that the 875 was more tractor than the quad.

Steiger Man

Posted 12/3/2011 20:35 (#2082971 - in reply to #2082964)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Sunburst Montana

12.9 vs 18. I would hope so.

MBpotatoe

Posted 12/3/2011 20:25 (#2082959 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Shouldn't be much longer until John Deere invents the quad track.

Steiger Man

Posted 12/3/2011 20:33 (#2082968 - in reply to #2082959)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Sunburst Montana

They have been around for a long time.

http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/18-tractors/11445-john-deere-quad-track.html

John Wollesen

Posted 12/3/2011 20:29 (#2082965 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Iowa

What about resale and dealer service?

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 20:46 (#2082993 - in reply to #2082965)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Dealer service for all three are within 10 mins of us. Deere will have the upper hand in resale.

1256IA

Posted 12/3/2011 21:52 (#2083084 - in reply to #2082993)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Soo will you trade for two tracked tractors? If soo get the ck book out!! We currently run wheeled and have ridden in tracked. They do ride nice in the field but don't want the maintanence associated with the tracks. Enjoyed reading your observations.

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 22:07 (#2083102 - in reply to #2083084)
Subject: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Just curious for those who have track machines, at what hrs do tracks start costing you more to maintain? 500hrs? 1000hrs? 3000hrs? What if you have a short-term lease where long term maintenance isn't an issue? Are tracks more cost effective because(in our case) we are increasing our productivity by 10-15 acres/hr thus increasing revenue(minus the increased fuel consumption of the 600 or 875C vs 9630)?

Edited by cdeklotz 12/3/2011 22:08

1256IA

Posted 12/3/2011 22:28 (#2083128 - in reply to #2083102)
Subject: RE: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

curious as to how you come up with 10-15 more acres per hr?

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 22:39 (#2083143 - in reply to #2083128)
Subject: RE: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

1256IA - 12/4/2011 09:28

curious as to how you come up with 10-15 more acres per hr?

We are limited by speed due to the harsh ride in our wheeled tractors on coc ground vs having a track tractor allows us to apply at speeds of 1-2mph increasing our ac/hr. We had one wheeled tractor 9630 vs quad 600 pulling both 24 knife bars and size tanks in the same field side by side one doing 50-55acres an hr while applying vs the wheeled 9630 doin 40 acrea/hr.

Ron..NE ILL..10/48

Posted 12/4/2011 07:31 (#2083389 - in reply to #2083143)
Subject: RE: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

Chebanse, IL.....

Do you not use the tractors for anything besides applicators? No tillage?

We're new to tracks (relatively). Obviously we're ignorant to the absolute demand for hydraulic drawbar. Why is that a deal killer? We don't even know what it is.

(DSC07315 (2).jpg)

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DSC07315 (2).jpg (39KB - 335 downloads)

cdeklotz

Posted 12/4/2011 09:23 (#2083514 - in reply to #2083389)
Subject: RE: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

I work for a coop where all these tractors do is get used to custom apply nh3 in the fall and spring.

Have you ever tried turning with your implement in the ground around corners? To make corners with high draft implements such as a nh3 toolbar you must unpin the wideswing drawbar, but when doing this it allows it bang around when driving with implement out of the ground. Now if you have a hydraulic swing drawbar it dampens the movement of the drawbar from swinging all over.

Ron..NE ILL..10/48

Posted 12/4/2011 10:54 (#2083647 - in reply to #2083514)
Subject: RE: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

Chebanse, IL.....

Thanks for explanation. I wasn't aware of the background.

I've never been a supporter of "turning" w/implements in the ground..anyone's. I feel that the shanks, bottoms, standards, spools, or whatever the ground-engaging component, cannot & should not be expected to long endure when pulling it sideways or twisting it. I think most OMs warn against turning w/the implement in the ground. But, I suppose there are areas in the US where it's necessary. Not in IL that I know of. I treat the implements as though they belong to me & that I need to take care of them. They belong to me.

Yes, we did some chiseling w/this tractor (have another track also) unpinned. Sometimes pinned. Not sure of difference yet. I didn' t hear the banging from a 9-shank JD 512 ripper. Maybe cab is too quiet.

Newguy

Posted 12/4/2011 09:08 (#2083494 - in reply to #2083102)
Subject: RE: At what hrs do track machines start costing you more$/ac?

Renville Minnesota

Unless the seals in the quadtrack have changed, they start leaking around 2700 hours for us. I fought off the quadtrack naysayers for years, untill we decided to see how long we could take one..... After 2700 hours she started nickel and dimeing, when we traded it off for a cat it had 3700 hours. It could be that tractor just needed a new owner, as I still felt it was a good tractor, but we replaced 13 seals, and all i could see was doing 33 more.

Take the suspension off the cab, and you will understand why they put suspension on the cab..... The 4 tracks make the machine stable, but the lack of any suspension off the undercarriage (where it should be) makes that tractor vibrate and shake side to side.

That being said, the quad did allot of work for us, put many miles of tile in, and would look at quads in the future if more suspension is engineered into the machine. Or just plan on trading every 2500 hours.

MeanGreen

Posted 12/3/2011 22:15 (#2083112 - in reply to #2083084)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

S.E. Michigan

Maintenance is not a bigger problem if you choose the right machine. That's where 2 tracks are better than 4 IMO. And it takes less fuel to keep those two tracks turning then 4. (ie: drivetrain losses) Have run all 3 and we'll stick with our 18 liter Cats over the 12.9 deere. Ran a RT this spring and they are a step up from previous models, however they seem a bit hard to work on. (especially the engine compartment & cleaning the windows) Hard to buying into putting 4-5 more gal/hr thru the quad and not getting anymore work done at the drawbar.

John

waterfowler

Posted 12/3/2011 22:22 (#2083123 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: Deere...........

Wheatley AR

Overall opinion- John Deere Engineers...you better make a quad track SOON!

LOL, I bet Deere is shaking in their boots!

JD9560

Posted 12/3/2011 22:33 (#2083136 - in reply to #2083123)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

W iowa

I was told by a person that ran a 600 this fall with their new Eco fuel mode they were
burning 10 gpa less pulling a 21 ft dominator than their 535 ...did u run the case wide open or in fuel management mode?

cdeklotz

Posted 12/3/2011 22:42 (#2083146 - in reply to #2083136)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

JD9560 - 12/4/2011 09:33

I was told by a person that ran a 600 this fall with their new Eco fuel mode they were
burning 10 gpa less pulling a 21 ft dominator than their 535 ...did u run the case wide open or in fuel management mode?

Didnt know there was a fuel management mode! Dealer didnt show us this feature....would have been nice to see compared to running wide open or idling back in some cases.

bleedred

Posted 12/3/2011 23:41 (#2083225 - in reply to #2083146)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

East Central Ia

That poses a good question... at what RPM were you running the machines at cdeklotz?

I have found that I have to run my STX380 with the 12.9L Iveco at a higher rpm to maintain boost or it falls on its face. I have a neighbor that went from an older STX375 with the 15L cummins to a 485 with the Iveco and he is disgusted with the power... and few other things. He said he rarely ran his 375 over 1600 rpm pulling a 19 knife nh3 bar, and 21.25' chisel plow... his 485 falls on its face under 1800 rpm.

I agree that the two track design is a bit funky in wetter conditions... but I was in some nasty clay hills when it was greasy on top, with the drawbar pinned, and I thought if that was the worst it would be... I would gladly take it. The improvement in ride and traction... and luggin power of the C15, was worth a lot of trade offs imo.

I should have come up and rode with you lol... I am only a few miles East of IC... and Kendall is trying to get me to buy that 835C I think!

MeanGreen

Posted 12/3/2011 23:05 (#2083183 - in reply to #2083136)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

S.E. Michigan

Seems hard to believe he could save that much pulling a Dominator. They pull hard. The 535's were hard on fuel though.
We run a 22ft 870 CIH and use 1.6 to 2.2 gal/ac depending on soil type running 6-7mph with our 18L. In the spring with FC we run throtted back @ 1600-1700 and run 1.2-1.5 gal/ac.

We have not experienced anymore maintenance $$$ running tracks than tires. Less slip (more ac/hr) and compaction on our cool wetter clay soils helps with increased yield in tire tracks. Set of tracks cost about the same to replace as 8 tires.

John

hellosugar

Posted 12/3/2011 22:54 (#2083168 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

rrv, nd

if you convert your fuel consumption to acres/gallon, the increased consumption might not be to far off. I don't think you would like the 2 tracks in wet muddy conditions either. Order with a pto nice grain carts tractors also, if it gets real muddy. I would stick with the quads.

bigfarm

Posted 12/3/2011 23:43 (#2083228 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

A demo in Graceville, MN there was a 600 quad and 26' ecolotiger ripper ate 7mph and 30-33gph. The soil here in MN this year is terribly super hard.

CRJ

Posted 12/4/2011 08:56 (#2083481 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

NEIN

forget all the money spent on tillage and go to at least min-till or better yet no till with some cover crops. The fields in those pictures would certainly benefit from not being tilled in the fall, especially the last one. I would say you have less than ten years left of what your doing before we all get regulated into no fall work on ground with those slopes. I know, I know, cant be done in "your" area.

Smoothlander

Posted 12/4/2011 09:05 (#2083490 - in reply to #2083481)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

CRJ - 12/4/2011 07:56

I would say you have less than ten years left of what your doing before we all get regulated into no fall work on ground with those slopes.

Slopes? What slopes? Put down the "No-Till" kool aid and step away.

CRJ

Posted 12/4/2011 10:27 (#2083598 - in reply to #2083490)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

NEIN

Take a look at the slopes in the last picture. He is pulling the applicator uphill along a quasi waterway it seems. I would bet by spring all those knife tracks are small rill gullies. And like it or not smoothlander we cannot keep letting our soil wash into the rivers, we will be regulated from doing so if we dont do it on our own.

bleedred

Posted 12/4/2011 11:15 (#2083690 - in reply to #2083598)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

East Central Ia

This may come as a shock... But not all soil washes with every rain event...

The only thing even close to tillage on that bean stubble will probably be that pass with the NH3 toolbar, and then the planter in our neck of the woods. Would u rather us leave it untouched and put liquid n on in the spring? Had a neighbor who does that, his corn did 122bpa... Mine 50yds away did over 200, I combined both.

CRJ

Posted 12/4/2011 14:07 (#2083935 - in reply to #2083690)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

NEIN

Every soil will move with water that is a fact! If there is any slope and water runs, exposed soil will move with it. And generally the better the soil (loams)the more it moves. Spring applied via side dress would be the best and as for your neighbors I would guess something besides the n source caused the yield difference. Dont have to agree with me but you will have to eventually comply with federal regulation if this soil loss continues.

bleedred

Posted 12/4/2011 16:29 (#2084165 - in reply to #2083935)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

East Central Ia

We do comply with government regulations on conservation. And saturated soil will move with surface water, there are a lot of things a guy can do to help eliminate or minimize this... no till is part of the equation. We no till 2/3's of our acres. Didn't mean to come across harsh if thats how you took it. But no till is not the answer for everything. We do have rolling ground and by all means things are not tilled black around here... My corn on corn ground that is fall chiseled is pretty consistantly better then my first year no-till corn. And I do not call a pass with an NH3 toolbar tillage, right or wrong I do not know.

I have no idea what all the differences were with my nieghbors field... but I know they like to broadcast most if not all their N on ahead of the planter with liquid from a floater sprayer. When I started harvesting it I got out twice becuase I could have sworn the clean grain elevator clean out door popped open or something!

We do split apply N with some sidedress dribble, or weed and feed, but we have tried other options and fall applied NH3 is always at the top for yeild let alone lower cost, and better timing for application.

Everywhere is different... I just got the impression that you were jumping on us for not no-tilling and that bugs me. lol

CRJ

Posted 12/5/2011 07:39 (#2085199 - in reply to #2084165)
Subject: RE: Better yet...

NEIN

No offense taken. I have notilled some land since 1994 and I do have all types of ground from clay to muck to sand. One thing I know for sure that is on good well drained land, long term notill will yield economically equal to conventional till. The other fact seems to be tillage begets more tillage.

Offroadnt

Posted 12/4/2011 10:43 (#2083623 - in reply to #2082562)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Southern Alberta Canada

Hydraulic swinging drawbar is still only an option? In 1984 when we demoed a Cat 60 the first thing I thought was "this thing needs a hydraulic swinging drawbar tied into the steering". 27 years later they still haven't figured that out? Engineers don't make it to the fields do they :/.

DrAllis

Posted 12/4/2011 11:12 (#2083682 - in reply to #2083623)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

The MT800 series has always had the "hydraulic drawbar-tied-to-the-steering" as an OPTION. Many owners don't feel the need for it, so as a result it has always been an optional feature. As far as undercarriage life goes (belts, bogies, seals, bearings, etc) the Challenger in most ag conditions will probably run twice as long as most QuadTracks will before repairs are needed if oil levels are maintained and changed as recomended.

Offroadnt

Posted 12/5/2011 07:58 (#2085216 - in reply to #2083682)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

Southern Alberta Canada

So what else have they developed to steer these things under load? That has got to be annoying trying to work irregular shaped fields, hills and such. Or do you have to oversize the tractor so much to overcome this?

bleedred

Posted 12/5/2011 10:27 (#2085444 - in reply to #2085216)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Track Tractor Demo (Results)

East Central Ia

It seemed to me that you just make smaller steering adjustments... I didn't have to much trouble making a 90 degree turn... You just have to make it a bit more gradually... Like u are doing it with a planter. Should be doing this gradually anyway to save wear and tear on the implement anyway.

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