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Mlebrun

Posted 8/15/2011 07:50 (#1912879)
Subject: Where to put floor drain in shop

SW MN and Gold Canyon AZ

I was thinking of sloping the whole floor towards the south hydro door (44 ft building width 30 ft door)and then putting a drain across the entrance just inside the door and then the drain sloping towards the side of the building into a collection spot tile under the floor. This way when one drives the snow blower into the shop you could almost set it down on or close to the drain. No water would then accumulate under the door and freeze it shut. Would also make pouring the floor a breeze with one slope to figure. The floor would then be flat side to side instead of having 2 or 4 slopes going to the center.Any other ideas??

durallymax

Posted 8/15/2011 08:17 (#1912917 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

How Long is you building. If its long you could level it off in the back if you will only have a couple snow covered things to park.

Ours is 60x80L. We sloped the front 15' inward towards the drain (away from the big doors), and sloped 25' on the other side towards the drain then left the other 40' flat. In hindsight we wouldve said screw the flat part for laying things out, more drains are better for us. We have tons of snow covered things to bring in and out and it can make a mess fast. Plus pushing water 50 feet+ with a squeegee gets old.

But again it depends on your operation.

loran

Posted 8/15/2011 09:00 (#1912978 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: RE: Where to put floor drain in shop

West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175

If you don't want to go full width..... here's the mudboxes we're putting in from http://www.lrmfgllc.com/products.html

Pretty simple,easy to plumb....screte right off the top....

Edited by loran 8/15/2011 09:02

(mudboxdrains.jpg)

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MMiller

Posted 8/15/2011 09:38 (#1913017 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

SW Iowa

The shops that I have been in that seemed to work the best, had a floor drain about 4-5' inside the main entrances. This way if the door leaks a little rain undernieth it, it goes directly to the drain. I have this inside my shop and like it well. I think that about 20' inside the drain is sloped, and sometimes I wish I had a little more floor sloped.

If you are planning on washing equipment like combines and such, this doesn't work so well. IHMO, if you are going to be doing much indoor washing, a person should put a pit/drain under the center of the area and slope the floor to it.

Michael

NEILFarmer

Posted 8/15/2011 09:57 (#1913044 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Morris, IL

Our shop is 64' x 36', we are making the sides where the loft and benches flat and the back 16' flat, That leaves a 24' x 48' area all sloping to a 24' trench drain, 12' all around it sloped 2", we looked and some of the preformed drains but we didn't think they were strong enough to take the weight of a semi, ended up forming it out of concrete which is a lot of work but i think it will be worth it. After it gets poured we are going to have a local welding shop build a grate out of 1 1/2" x 1/2" stuff. It will look kinda like a grain pit. Our form looks a lot like Loran's but out of wood and 24' long. We will be doing some washing in this shop, mostly tractors and combines but if we want too wash a long tractor trailer or implement hooked on the tractor we can by doing half and then turning it around and doing other half.

tomosakis

Posted 8/15/2011 11:20 (#1913124 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: RE: Where to put floor drain in shop

Osakis, MN

A good friend of mine who works at a truck shop said he hated there new shop because the floor was sloped to the center under the trucks in each bay. The main reason being they couldn't use creepers under the truck very easily with the drain grates there and anything with a wheel would get hung up. He also noted that he got sick of taking the grate off to fish out dropped wrenches and nuts and bolts while working on something. He wishes that the floors would have been sloped with the drains a few feet from the doors like mentioned.

grizz1972

Posted 8/15/2011 11:48 (#1913156 - in reply to #1913124)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

wisconsin

We built a 60X60 and i put a 40 foot trench drain right between the the two bays this works real well. as mentioned before i also didnt want to be rolling over a drain under a truck ect ill try and attach a pic that kinda shows the drain.

(IMG00003-20101218-1332(2).jpg)

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JDPlowboy

Posted 8/15/2011 11:54 (#1913168 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: RE: Where to put floor drain in shop

sw MN

If you have floor heat it will dry the water up. I would forget sloping the floor in a shop. Level is best for shop work. A small drain is good enough unless your building a wash bay not a shop.

grizz1972

Posted 8/15/2011 12:00 (#1913174 - in reply to #1913168)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

wisconsin

we have in floor heat and it dose dry up the water but when we bring in a skid steer and a loader tractor from plowing snow im glad the drain is there its needed. also with the floor sloped to the drain you know that the water is headed that way and not towards the walls or the office

Mlebrun

Posted 8/15/2011 13:01 (#1913243 - in reply to #1913174)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

SW MN and Gold Canyon AZ

I want the ability to wash tractors and vehicles when needed and wash the floor off couple times a yr. I want to put up a curtain that can be put around whatever I am washing so i don't get the walls dirty and splatter all the tools and other equipment and collector vehicles stored inside. A slight slope will take care of the runoff.
In the summer I would just wash them off outside somewhere. I want to be able to clean up the machinary after harvest, inside incase the weather turns cold to fast .
Every tractor gets oil changed,serviced ,washed ,waxed ,vacumn cleaned twice a yr. Then its ready when I have to use it.

fuelfarmer

Posted 8/15/2011 13:10 (#1913252 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Virginia

Place the drains in the corners of the shop, or along the walls. It is easy to push stuff into a corner when washing the floor.

9520Deere

Posted 8/15/2011 13:23 (#1913261 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Alberta Canada

I would want a drain infront by the door. And maybe a center trench style. If off to the side and you park something wet or drippy along the other side you get to crawl around and work in the slop as it runs to the drains.

jwhit

Posted 8/15/2011 17:07 (#1913432 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

central Iowa

One thing I wish we had done in our shop is put a drain next to the hydrant. The hose or powerwasher seems to always leak a little bit

OHKen

Posted 8/15/2011 17:15 (#1913439 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Ohio

Trench off of the door a little ways and the floor sloped on a flat plane to the trench. The most important thing is that you have a proper disposal plan , what ever your state requires. If you ever have anybody from EPA on your farm and they see this---they will be on you like a beagle after a rabbit.. They will FINE you big time and make you plug the outlet pipe till you follow the guidelines. This is a great idea and a real convienience, you just have to watch your P's and Q's on this one.

Edited by OHKen 8/15/2011 17:48

gregsagandauto

Posted 8/15/2011 19:05 (#1913545 - in reply to #1913439)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

Two stage pit should keep epa/health dept/state satisfied. I have my shop drain into my outside wash pad which is the first stage of the pit it collects most of the solids, put a 90* on it to keep the cold drafts and smell coming back into the shop. The second stage is connected by a hole in the wall which is 95% liquid and the outlet to the lagoon is immersed 2/3 below the level of the second stage tank which acts as an oil skimmer. Any oil stays floated to the top where it can be easily reclaimed and disposed of properly. Works pretty much on par with most of the car wash pits I have been around.

As for the shop drain I have a 40' x 1' grated trough drain in the center of my shop and like posted before it does kinda suck dropping tools or nuts etc. down the drain, (which could be remedied by putting sheet metal over the grates to only let water flow thru the sides) however I do like it when bringing in snow covered things because you can push the snow on down easily. It was sloped only in the area where the drain ran, which makes a mess if you wash the floor in the rest of the area, no matter how "flat" you try to get a floor there are inevitably going to be low spots. I do have floor heat as well but have lately only used it after I have used up my waste oil for my waste oil furnace or when it was supposed to get really cold. If did it all over again I may do it like you are planning, but would probably make the drain go the entire width of the shop then slope the drain in the center dumping outside to the two stage pit, or I may go with how I did it with several drain boxes placed along the middle. There will always be things that would be nice about another way of doing it just have to pick the one with the least evils for what you want to do! Good luck! :-)

Edited by gregsagandauto 8/15/2011 19:09

boog

Posted 8/15/2011 19:20 (#1913562 - in reply to #1913545)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

We'll be pouring the floor in our new shop in a couple weeks. We are going to put a trench drain in similiar to yours so I have a couple questions for you. Is the trench 12" or is that the width of the cover? We want to be able to clean out the trench with a flat bottomed shovel, so are looking at a 12" wide trench with 14 1/2" cover. 2ns question, did you make your grate or buy it? What size steel did you use? Pics would be helpful. The welding supply house recomended a grate using 2 1/2" x 3/16" slats.

TIA,
boog

NEILFarmer

Posted 8/15/2011 20:46 (#1913681 - in reply to #1913562)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Morris, IL

We put a trench drain that sounds a lot like gregsagandauto's in our shop. The grate is going to be 24' x 1' and we put a 1 1/2" x 2" ledge so actual drain is 23' 9" x 9". We put a pit in ours that is 2' x 9" with a 90 on the tile outlet. There won't be any water sitting except in the pit and with the 90 degree outlet there won't be any smell or cold air. Putting my hand on it now i can really feel cooler air but i don't smell anything. Don't glue the 90 on, just leave it loose. Oil should rise too the top and the dirt should sit on the bottom so we will have to clean it up a few times a year i would rather do that than plug it under the concrete. I might be able too get you some pictures before we pour the concrete if you would like. If i were going to do it over i would make it wider, make the inside 12" or more, it was hard to form and i don't think a shovel will fit very good. A local welding shop, local farmer friend is going to build us the grate, he said he could make it any size i wanted. He is using 1/2" x 1 1/2" steel with 1/4 inch plate along the sides to smooth everything out, said the top of the grate should be 1/4 below the concrete, its going to look a lot like the grates you see at grain elevators and should be able to hold loaded semis. I'm telling you all this because i wish someone had told me all this when we were designing ours. We are pouring ours in two pours, the footing is done, did it with bags, not as bad as it sounds, it was easy to get the form perfectly square and i don't think it will move at all when we pour the floor in a few weeks.

Edited by NEILFarmer 8/15/2011 21:12

gregsagandauto

Posted 8/16/2011 01:16 (#1914328 - in reply to #1913681)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

Ditto on the 90* I forgot to mention not to glue it! Neither one actually on the pit so can be removed if need ever arises that needs to be snaked, which the only one that ever should need snaked would be the one going inside as the one going on down is only water. One additional thing nice about the 90* on it is you know when you need to clean out the pit... water starts backing up the drain! So really isn't a bad thing to have it so it is 6-8" off the bottom (or however deep you feel like cleaning it out) I know the first time I plugged the 90* I ended up just taking it off since I didn't have time to clean it out at the time and wanted it to drain, some time later when cleaning the shop noticed this piece of pipe and had to think for a bit where it came from... Then you get that "Oh grawlix" moment and find it is twice as deep as it was before then you get a LOT more to clean out! lol Kinda nice to have that indicator and pay attention to it a LOT more now! :-)
Also ditto on the possibility of making your own too, I have a buddy that did a really nice job on his and they look professionally done, not hard to do once you make a jig for cutting them and a jig for welding them together. I just happened on a deal on this galv stuff. Not sure I would ditto the go wider though, I would probably go narrower if had a do-over especially with that trench shovel, might go 1/2" or so more than the shovel, would keep the wide grates (mine are 1") though to let snow down more. There are some cast ones I have seen with narrower slots which would be nice for the dropped wrench and creeper/jack rolling factor but not the snow packed factor.

Edited by gregsagandauto 8/16/2011 01:27

gregsagandauto

Posted 8/15/2011 21:03 (#1913721 - in reply to #1913562)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

I made mine 12" cover so inside of the trough is like 9ish" (ripped 2x4s for the grate ledge) didn't spend as much time bracing and making sure the trough was straight as we did the top edge (did the whole floor as 1 single pour) as I had a couple 1-1/2"x12" by 20' galv grates I was going to use for the cover. Only thing I didn't think about when I did it was that the grate I got was made out of 1" bar on edge with 3/8" rod connecting at the top, which doesn't support 500 lb the way I was going to put it originally! I had to cut down the grate into 1' long sections and run it 90* of the way I was going to originally and that took a LONNNNG time on a bandsaw.

If I was doing it over again the same as I had I would have made my trough BEFORE I pour the rest of the floor with it below the floor pour, that way I could have taken more time and care of how wide it was (like you want to for shoveling out) and also how the bottom was. I ended up re-pouring the bottom of my trough the whole length as it had some high spots and also I wanted to V it more so it would empty out more completely. Doing that made it 1-3" (CORRECTION: 3-6") less deep than it was to start with but now (when it isn't full of dirt or anything) I can dump 1 qt of water at the one end and it will make it all the way to the drain end. I have a little coal shovel that worked pretty nice once I beat in the sides a bit and squared it up some, and then a small 4 or 5" wide trench shovel for cleaning out the V. Ended up modifying the coal shovel handle into an L to just use to clean out the pit now though and just wash the drain with the pressure washer after taking out the big stuff with the trench shovel. I'll post some pics of it all later tonight.

EDIT: And another BIG thing I WISH like all get out I would have done and would about give any amount of money to go back and do is to make yourself an angle iron lip for that grate to sit on, end up getting chipped concrete under the grates and maybe not quite getting it all tucked under like you would have liked to but that once again comes to doing it in a couple pours as we were hauling grawlix to get everything done in a timely manner doing it in one pour. 50 x 100, in the summer, allll day long job... lol

Edited by gregsagandauto 8/16/2011 01:30

NEILFarmer

Posted 8/16/2011 09:04 (#1914579 - in reply to #1913721)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Morris, IL

I like the V bottom, wish i would have done that.

gregsagandauto

Posted 8/16/2011 12:06 (#1914832 - in reply to #1914579)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

I didn't do it the first time but made it deep enough the first time that I was able to fill it in 3-6" where it was originally 12" at one end and 16" at the other. I cleaned the grawlix out of it with the HOT water pressure washer then scraped it up some with wire brush then washed again sprayed on a concrete bonding agent, then with a harbor freight special cement mixer went at bag mixing. filled it in like I wanted then using a nice straight 12' piece of pipe I had laying around made an impression starting at the drain pipe and working my way back away from it making the imprint in the middle of the drain working my way back half a section at a time so when done I had a nice straight grove in the bottom then just troweled to make it purdy and angled to the sides. I went another step farther too because it was a "patch pour" into the trough, and coated the whole drain bottom, sides and all with several coats of sealer so that there wouldn't be any seeping into the "edges" on the side where it might want to chip out or get crud and what not. Figured that helps make it drain easier too, water can bead up and flow more. Just more random thoughts... :-)

NEILFarmer

Posted 8/16/2011 20:00 (#1915419 - in reply to #1914832)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Morris, IL

I wish I would have talked to you about 2-3 weeks ago. Mines only 8" deep on one end and 14" deep near the pit, how long is yours, mine slopes 6" in about 22' 6", i doubled the slope i used on the floor. I still might try your idea, it's still clean so i will definitely seal it a few times.

gregsagandauto

Posted 8/17/2011 23:05 (#1917480 - in reply to #1915419)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

Mine ends up being 45' long, and I modified another coal shovel (pics below) so it cleans the V of the drain if I scrape it perpendicular, so the shovel angle will show what the angles of the V are for mine.
If I remember right according to the bonding agent wanted you to wait 60 or 90 days for the concrete to cure out then use muriatic acid to clean off the concrete and rinse it down real good before you add the other concrete.
I remember when I did mine I was only going to go an inch or so deep but then had a guy come in asked why I needed a drain that deep for inside a heated shop... I'll be danged if I knew why I wanted to bend over that much deeper, or dig out that much more crud, etc., etc. so I went deeper than I originally planned and never looked back. Just putting that out there, in case you wanted to make it more of a slope or anything, even only a couple inches deep doesn't hurt a thing for a shop drain, makes sure you keep it clean that way!
I did end up having to put a 45* on my drain pipe to make it work out as I first time around had it horizontal with the trough, with the 45* it set it back a ways then I sloped it pretty severely from the "wall" so it didn't keep any crud in the corners and drops it right into the pipe. Here are some pics:

(P8170429.jpg)

(P8170430.jpg)

(P8170431.jpg)

(P8170432.jpg)

(P8170433.jpg)

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NEILFarmer

Posted 8/17/2011 23:46 (#1917576 - in reply to #1917480)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Morris, IL

I got 3 times the slope, 6" in 22.5 vs 4" in 45 feet so i don't think i will worry about the v bottom, great idea, i thought of something like that the day we poured when i was wetting it down afterward, most of the water ran off the sides, i was thinking at the time that I should have made a v bottom screed board. I think you should have a clean up day, invite all you friends and family. It's amazing how people are different, a shop that big and nice would kill me to have more than a few things laying around, grandpa wouldn't have anything out of place, but then my great grandpa had a insulated barn with stuff everywhere and got more done in it than anyone i ever knew, he knew what and where everything was and never forgot, i think he probably still remembered when he died, couldn't see it tho.

gregsagandauto

Posted 8/17/2011 23:52 (#1917590 - in reply to #1917576)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

Lol yeah... I am too much of a packrat and get reminded by my friends all the time who say things along the lines of what you were! I need to do just that have a big ol cleaning party, worst thing is most of the time I can walk right to where I left something (not always but usually) and find it, until someone moves it for me!

Chad H

Posted 8/15/2011 23:44 (#1914193 - in reply to #1913562)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

NE SD

We have a 40' drain like Greg in part of our new floor. It is 2x lumber with 2x8 in between and 2x2 on the top edge to make a lip for the grate. So, the drain is roughly 10.5" wide and the grate will be 13.5" wide. We plan to cut the grate from channel iron and place them tight together to keep dirt, bolts, etc from falling in. I'd rather sweep the dirt up around the grate than have to clean it. At the end of the 40' drain is a 3'x3' sump that has a lower bottom and where the water will exit. This will also have channel iron over it. No lagoon here, just a tank and drain field.

Edited by Chad H 8/15/2011 23:45

Busboy

Posted 8/15/2011 19:42 (#1913591 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Mike,

Come take a look at ours....we put in a U-Drain, crosswise in the middle. Very pleased. 2 slopes, but both planes are "flat", so if you want something flat for set up, it's a big enough piece. Water runs in from the door, so no freezing there. Beer spills should make it to the drain as well.

Duane NC OH

Posted 8/15/2011 20:21 (#1913638 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: RE: Where to put floor drain in shop

Republic OH (NC OH)

here is picture of mine in a 40x40 shop.

Edited by Duane NC OH 8/15/2011 20:23

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gregsagandauto

Posted 8/16/2011 01:00 (#1914321 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: RE: Where to put floor drain in shop - Pic of mine

Goff, Kansas (Nemaha County) USA

Man I need to clean out my drain again... lol I'll try to take more pics of the drain and of the pit too tomorrow.

Edited by gregsagandauto 8/16/2011 01:05

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durallymax

Posted 8/16/2011 07:53 (#1914463 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Im not much of a fan of the big drains myself. Ours is only 4" wide ish, with narrow slots in it. YOu can roll a creeper over it and you wont find many tools you can drop through the tiny holes. It keeps the big stuff out of the drain too, just finer sediment gets in there. I clean it with a garden trowel.

Mlebrun

Posted 8/16/2011 09:06 (#1914584 - in reply to #1914463)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

SW MN and Gold Canyon AZ

Thanks Guys lots of good ideas

mulberrygrovefamfarm

Posted 8/16/2011 11:03 (#1914764 - in reply to #1912879)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Iowa

In SW MN and NW IA the problems we encounter with shop drains are in winter. I would stay away from drains near shop doors. Unless your shop is really warm, drains just inside of shop doors tend to freeze or will have the snow and ice melt off of equipment etc freeze on the way to the drain. Guys I know that have put drains by the shop door wish they had gone another route, but most also keep their shops pretty cool in the winter too.

Mlebrun

Posted 8/16/2011 21:03 (#1915543 - in reply to #1914764)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

SW MN and Gold Canyon AZ

In floor heat, should not be a problem??

mulberrygrovefamfarm

Posted 8/17/2011 08:02 (#1916191 - in reply to #1915543)
Subject: Re: Where to put floor drain in shop

Iowa

Ah, no, in floor heat shouldn't be a problem.

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