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RCD

Posted 6/1/2011 00:15 (#1801350)
Subject: Turning in clean-up bull after AI

West Central Iowa

Every year I synchronize my cows, AI on heat detection with timed AI for all non-responders, and then turn the bull out to clean-up. I've heard that I should wait to turn the bull out between 6-16 days following the AI service. When do you turn in your clean up bulls after an AI program and why?

Oscar

Posted 6/1/2011 10:26 (#1801678 - in reply to #1801350)
Subject: Re: Turning in clean-up bull after AI

Central, IA

I turn in clean up bull with heifers about 3 or 4 days after the last one is AI bred, which means 5 to 6 days after the 1st one is bred AI typically if you are on a sync program.

I don't know if it is correct or not. I kind of figure that they should be settled AI after 3 days if it was meant to be. I certainly want everything to get bred AI, but most important is to get all the heifers / cows settled, so I tend to turn bulls in early.

Maybe it is just me, but I tend to think bulls spend the 1st day or 2 in a pasture checking out surroundings before they actually get to work anyways, so I tend to kick them in a day or 2 early from whenever I think I want to start calving.

scottcupps

Posted 6/1/2011 21:56 (#1802175 - in reply to #1801350)
Subject: Re: Turning in clean-up bull after AI

The Shell Knob Basin (Southwest Missouri)

i turn them out about 18 days after.... if your cows are truly synced then you should have 20 days or so from the first breeding before some start coming back in.... i like this because we can definitely can tell what each is bred to by pegging early with ultrasound..... if your time breeding all non responders and giving gnrh when you do so, instead of heat detecting for a full five days, then you may have some come in between your sync cycles…. And if your bulls get them stuck, its very hard to tell what there bred to… also I keep feeding my bulls and keep them in as good a shape as possible…. Because when your cows start coming back in the second go around, they will still be very close together…. If you turn the bulls in too soon and aren’t feeding your heifers heavily, especially on endophyte infected fescue, then your bulls might lose condition and have a harder time covering and getting that many cows stuck in that short of a time…….. do you use cidr's?? What protocal are you using?? When are you giving PG?? How long do you heat detect for?? What percentage are usually "non responders"?? Do you ultrasound to determine if you got them AI bred??

RCD

Posted 6/1/2011 22:24 (#1802225 - in reply to #1802175)
Subject: Re: Turning in clean-up bull after AI

West Central Iowa

I'll try to answer your questions the best I can.

I use the Select Synch + CIDR & TAI program. Give GnRH day zero and insert CIDR. Pull CIDR day seven and give PG. Heat detect then TAI all non-responders @ 72 hrs.

Last week I had 4 of 19 I would consider non-responders (@ 72 hrs.) but even one of those was showing mucus as I AI'd which would give me 21% or 16% non-responders respectively.

At this point I do not ultrasound for pregnancy as I am new to the business and my customers don't really care who the sire is. If I had a customer whose decision depended on the sire, or I decided to keep one for my own purebred herd I would use parentage verification to see "Who's your daddy".

To address your concern about the bull having too many cows to breed the first cycle after AI, I take my cows (approximately 40) and write them down in order of calving date. Any that calved later that would not be good candidates for timed AI go with the bull on the first day I AI my synched cows. This year that would be four head. Then I divide the remaining cows (36) into two groups. I synch the first 18 and 7 days later synch the other 18. I also have two pastures so when each group is done being synched I split the 18 into two groups so 9 go to each pasture. This should really reduce the number of head at any one time that a bull should be breeding if they come back around since the synched groups are divided by seven days and there should be little to no overlap of any that come around after AI.

BIG L.G.

Posted 6/1/2011 23:53 (#1802446 - in reply to #1802225)
Subject: Re: Turning in clean-up bull after AI

EC, IN

Can I ask why you're going to the trouble of AI if your customers don't care about the sire, why not just turn the bull in for all of them?

RCD

Posted 6/2/2011 01:49 (#1802581 - in reply to #1802446)
Subject: Re: Turning in clean-up bull after AI

West Central Iowa

As I build my herd, I want to retain heifers out of highly proven sires to use as my herd base. I understand that AI sired calves aren't always better than herd bull calves but there should be more predictability in their performance/traits. I do also try to retain my own herd bulls from my better cows and I like the predictability that they should pass on as well. Typically it would be hard for me to purchase a herd bull that has the package of traits I want unless I want to spend 5 figures or more.......but I've chosen not to be a part of the high dollar game.

In respect to "my customers not caring about the sire".............I still stand by that statement. If I collected my own herd bull and used him AI, many customers would look at those calves more seriously than the natural bred counterparts from the same bull (without taking into account any age differences from the later bred natural calves) just because he was AI. The terms "Natural-bred" or "Clean-up calves" just have bad stigma when buyers come to look. AI gives me the chance to use better genetics than I can afford on the hoof and I hope that is reflected in the quality of the bulls I sell. Even if the customer doesn't know the name of the sire, if his calves are better than my herd bull's calves and offer more predictable genetics, I can feel more confident in the product I am selling and I want my customers happy.

Also, I am a one man show. I check cattle at 10, 2, & 4 myself and by synching my herd I hope to have more calves in a shorter time-frame which doesn't drag out my calving season. If I could synch 20 cows, kick them into a pasture with the bull and expect comparable conception rates to AI, I might actually consider it, but that is not a reality.

I even know some commercial herds that use AI. They retain heifers for their own herd and everything else goes to the feedlot. Studies have shown that AI returns more dollars per cow even taking into account the extra costs associated with an AI program.

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