AgTalk Home
AgTalk Home
Search Forums | Classifieds (3) | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forums List -> Machinery TalkMessage format
 
tedbear
Posted 6/8/2007 07:57 (#160000)
Subject: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
I am having a new machine shed/shop built by the Morton folks. I have talked to others who have Morton buildings and they are generally happy with the buildings but complain about the door guides for sliding doors.

My building will have an overhead door on the shop end but will have a 36' sliding door on the opposite end for the machine storage part of the building.

Morton's guide system seems to consist of three guides for a door of this size. There is one in the center where the two doors meet and one on each side halfway out. Morton's system consists of a buried wooden post covered with plastic with the guide on top.

The other owners have compained of misalignment, movement and general problems with this arrangement.

It would seem to me that some type of a removable guide coulde be constucted. I got this idea from my neighbor's shed. In that shed, he cemented a piece of square tubing into the ground. This tubing acts somewhat like a reciever hitch. Either the door guide (fitted with a mating piece of square tubing) or a "blank" shield is placed into the tubing in the ground. Basically he opens the doors, pulls out the guide and replaces it with the blank and then drives the machinery in or out. One would need to discipline themselves to perform this procedure each time the door was used.

Has anyone done this or better yet have pictures?

I brought up this idea to the sales Rep but apparently I need to let the Morton folks put their guides in for warranty considerations. After they have left, I guess I could do whatever I wanted to do.



Edited by tedbear 6/8/2007 20:06
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chad H
Posted 6/8/2007 08:34 (#160008 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: Re: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides


NE SD
We have a morton shed with their wood post door guides. Not a good idea. If it were me I'd forget anything like that and just put in a concrete strip and a ledge for the doors to slide against using a 3" angle iron. This way you could crete in whatever you wanted to use as guides on the outside- removable or not. The problem with Morton's guides is that they move after a while, either sinking or shifting from frost, etc. The only way we'll ever get ours back right is by digging it out and re-doing it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray (ecks)
Posted 6/8/2007 08:44 (#160011 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



We've had many Mortons through the years. No doubt the single post that holds the two door centers when they are shut is the weakest part of their door. I don't think you need to go to the extreme that you are talking about however.

You didn't say if you had wooden frame doors or aluminum, but I don't think it would matter much. Our experience with large doors is all with aluminum.

The problem we've had is the typical bag of sackcrete in the bottom is not enough to hold the post with a lot of wear and tear on it. If you happen to drive over it with a wheel it will sink into the ground. On our last Morton bld in some real sandy dirt we tried to get them to let us do it differently, but no they thought they knew better. After proving them wrong and making sure that they remembered that we had wanted to do it differently from the start they sent their crew back out, we took a 3' auger and dug a hole about 7' deep. We had welded up a post with rebar along the sides sticking out to anchor it in the concrete and then attached their center guide to the top of it. We sat it in the hole and poured concrete all around it, at the top we shapped a rounded surface with a couple of grooves where the doors would run, but left the concrete higher on either side so if a tire goes over it the tire won't be jumping up, but in stead just rolling over the top. This may sound extreme, but this was in some really loose sand.

If you want a door that seals up where you try to keep the air out we poured a concrete lip on a shed here attached to our shop. We took a mini hoe and dug a trench 3' deep and 2' across between the door posts. We then framed up with a 2x so that inside the door was 1.5" higher than where the bottom of the door ran. Again we made a steel post to hold the center hook that Morton had. When the doors are closed they fit snuggly against the concrete lip. The reason we made it so deep was to get below our frost line so it would't heave and because we were going in and out with semi's weighing over 100,000.

My Dad originally thought we'd need the lip to keep large doors from floping in the wind, but I've found that if you hold them tight when you first open them, once you get past the 2 or 3 ft stage the air equalizes (unless you've got other doors open) and they reallly are not that hard to handle.

Hope that helps, if you want pictures let me know and I can snap some, for now I need to get out and move a nurse trailer.

Ray
Top of the page Bottom of the page
pbutler
Posted 6/8/2007 09:11 (#160017 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



Macon, IL
I had concrete ribbons poured-and the door guide up throught the concrete. It wasn't cheap-I think about $2,200 for two doors. But it is down almost 3 feet and after 4 years hasn't budged a bit-even it the coldest or hottest day.

Compared to the overall cost of the shed it wasn't that much and really makes them nice.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pofarmer
Posted 6/8/2007 10:46 (#160054 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: Re: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



We have a Kmar building built in the early 70's, and other than not being quite big enough any more, I like the way that Grandpa and Dad decided to do the doors. It has a concrete lip that overlaps the door bottom by about 1 1/2 inches, and concrete goes under the door area. On the outside of this, they put about 1" round rod in an inverted U to hold the doors when they are closed. On larger doors you could put however many of these you want. The only downside was that rocks got under the door and you had to sweep it out regularly. A few years ago I put a concrete pad infront of the door and really helped that problem out. This has been a good arrangement and so far equipment hasn't hurt it and it doesn't move. I'm not sure how deep the footer is, but I'd bet it's well below frost depth.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
agboy
Posted 6/8/2007 13:24 (#160098 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



Flandreau, SD

How much would they take off to not put any door on?

Then go to a by fold or hydro swing.

God I hate sliders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

We have one shed left with sliders and a concrete "post" in the center for the doors.  No good reason for that kind of **** in my opinion.  Three of them???  Oh MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edited by agboy 6/8/2007 13:34
Top of the page Bottom of the page
granto
Posted 6/8/2007 13:36 (#160106 - in reply to #160098)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides


18c ditch system
AGBoy,

I have a hydro swing door................no more sliders.........no, never, ever...... Sliders should be outlawed.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Illinois John
Posted 6/8/2007 14:09 (#160116 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: I have never talked to anyone who liked the center post guide.


Crawford County, Robinson, Illinois

I built a building from Moore with a 24' and a 36' door on the east side.  Center post on wood post worked fine--for about a year.  Then freeze-thaw started working on them, had to adjust the doors every spring to get them to work, and in the winter sometimes had problems as well. 

Neighbor put his guide on an I-beam and buried it in cement, I later bought his land with that building.  We've never had a problem with that guide so that might be an option, or we are just lucky.  I don't know how deep he buried the I beam, but it must have been well below the freeze level.

Personally, if I had to have a sliding door in order to enjoy all the bird problem they create, I would consider pouring a 3' footer under the door as someone suggested.  The newest building has overhead doors with openers, and it is such a treat.  Wish we would have been able to afford them years ago.  Overhead is really the only good way to have a door in the shop, or even in a machinery building, for that matter. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Paul(WI)
Posted 6/8/2007 17:19 (#160147 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



This is what we put in for our shed. The door is 24' wide. This was a Menards building which came with the typical metal brackets that attach to the top of a post. Nyet. Drilled a 4' deep 12" post hole and filled with cement. Hopefully the frost wont heave it. We also strengthend the door ends that meet with flat iron on one door and 3" channel iron on the other door.



(door guide 001 (Small).jpg)



(door guide 002 (Small).jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments door guide 001 (Small).jpg (81KB - 722 downloads)
Attachments door guide 002 (Small).jpg (54KB - 882 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hillfarmer
Posted 6/8/2007 18:09 (#160158 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



"guides in for warranty considerations"

fine, I would say I'll just keep 10% till I am sure that the warranty

covers the guide to work right in a year

Have them sign a diagram of what you think will work

too much money is spent today with engineering that is not worth the paper it is printed on
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Von WC Ohio
Posted 6/8/2007 22:45 (#160235 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



This probably does not apply as this is an old barn retrofit.

 Old doors had been blown in and broken many times over the years. When the old concrete floor was replaced with a new one we sank a pipe into the concrete and which also had rebar feet welded onto it to keep it secure. The plan was to give the old doors something to push against to keep them from blowing in. Later on we were planning to go with some sort of overhead hydroswing door. That did not materialize and we ended up having new sliders made utilizing quick frame and bottom tracks to keep them in place when open. In order to utilize the socket already in place I welded up some stuff from the scrap pile to make these door holders. I welded a thin piece of sheet metal around a slightly smaller pipe that would fit into the one in the floor. Then I welded a small channel on edge to the thin plate that would slide inside the bottom door track. The quick frames on the door interlock also so once they are closed and hooked they are going nowhere. It was tricky as the bottom door tracks needed to slide over the thin plate to close. No problems with wind moving things when they are shut.

 

Before someone says something yes they need a shot of paint Smile



Edited by Von WC Ohio 7/6/2010 10:15




(P6080011 (Medium).JPG)



(P6080012 (Medium).JPG)



(P6080013 (Medium).JPG)



(P6080014 (Medium).JPG)



(P6080002 (Medium).JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments P6080011 (Medium).JPG (56KB - 852 downloads)
Attachments P6080012 (Medium).JPG (57KB - 807 downloads)
Attachments P6080013 (Medium).JPG (35KB - 921 downloads)
Attachments P6080014 (Medium).JPG (67KB - 858 downloads)
Attachments P6080002 (Medium).JPG (67KB - 832 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dave morgan
Posted 6/9/2007 00:13 (#160266 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides


Somerville, Indiana
a neighbor did the receiver hitch deal you speak of to his building and it works fine. In fact he brought us parts to do our 36 ft sliding door the same way, still on the 'too due' list. We still have the original post and slide in the center where the doors meet, but the others are long gone since 1976.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mike SE IL
Posted 6/9/2007 07:28 (#160307 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides



West Union, Illinois
On dad's shed he dug a trench the width of the door, formed it up and poured a concrete strip about a foot wide ... not sure how deep but I'd guess 3 ft or better.  In the middle he made a couple U shaped brackets out of 2 inch pipe and buried them upside down so the so the door slides between them.  The corner are beveled so it doesn't hurt anything if you run over them.    Keeps the rock inside from getting outside.  Varmits don't dig under it.  It's worked for 30 years.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tedbear
Posted 6/9/2007 08:00 (#160316 - in reply to #160307)
Subject: Thanks for the quick replies


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
Thanks for the quick replies and ideas. A picture is worth a thousand words.

The shop end will get the most use and will have an overhead door. The storage end will not see as much use and the plan is for a 18 x 36' aluminum slider. I may regret that decision.

The door guide issue is a long way off and the immediate concern is site preparation. I need to determine the exact location of the corners and the elevation very soon.

I am concerned about the elevation for several reasons. I obviously don't want it too low, but raising the elevation too much may cause problems with the existing dooryard. I need considerable fill on the machine storage end which is away from the dooryard. Increasing the elevation will only add to that problem.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BRIAN
Posted 6/9/2007 22:21 (#160511 - in reply to #160000)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides


Graymont Illinois

Ted, I have an old shed that has that reciever type hitch in cement. In the center of a , one piece sliding door. (slides one way) Works great, but.

In winter, if the square tubing in cement gets water down it. 2 pieces frozen.

Solution is antifreeze poured in square tubing, get rains, have to blow out water and reapply antifreeze., because too diluted.Maybe we are talking something different, but I like the pull out center reciever. Just antifreeze is toxic to animals, unless you use the RV stuff.

If I had pictures it would look like Von's galvanised pipe only square tubing that telescopes or slides inside each other, with the larger square tubing flush with cement and buried in cement,  I do not have the Morton "T" for rail, but a U shaped heavy metal piece that is on both sides of door(inside/ outside), welded on top of smaller square tubing that fits down cemented in larger square tubing.

Probably confusing everybody.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
tedbear
Posted 6/10/2007 12:36 (#160691 - in reply to #160511)
Subject: RE: Morton Shed - Sliding Door Guides


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
That is pretty much what I had in mind. I was thinking about making the removable part with the guide be the larger tubing. That way and debris in the center of the smaller tubing wouldn't be much of a problem.

Thanks
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

(Delete cookies)