AgTalk Home
AgTalk Home
Search Forums | Classifieds (31) | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forums List -> Market TalkMessage format
 
Ralph
Posted 1/8/2011 07:58 (#1534371)
Subject: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


SPRINGFIELD -- A Central Illinois farmer facing a lawsuit over his alleged role in the demise of a Towanda grain elevator has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, along with his wife.

Robert and Julie Printz of Hudson filed for bankruptcy reorganization Dec. 31 in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Springfield. Printz Farms operates on about 8,000 acres, mostly cash-rent land in McLean and Livingston counties. They also own smaller trucking, seed and farm-equipment firms.

Together, the businesses employ more than two-dozen full- and part-time employees, with annual gross revenues of more than $8 million, court filings show.

The bankruptcy filing estimates the Printzes' liabilities at between $10 million and $50 million, owed to 85 creditors. The 20 largest creditors with unsecured claims - totaling about $6.8 million - include farm-input suppliers, insurance firms and farmer cooperatives. The Printzes say the debts are primarily business-related.

Among the Top 20 creditors is CoBank, a Colorado-based agricultural lender that in June sued Robert Printz in federal court, seeking $4.6 million. That is about a third of what the bank says Printz obtained from Towanda Grain Co., a CoBank client, through loans or advances in 30 separate transactions in 2009-2010.

The grain elevator was closed by the state in May when problems arose in its balance sheet, and the owners eventually sold it to Evergreen FS. CoBank has claimed the Printz losses are the "cause or major cause" of Towanda Grain going out of business.

The Illinois Department of Agriculture is still investigating the elevator's failure, spokesman Jeff Squibb said Thursday.

"Of course, if wrongdoing is discovered, we'll certainly seek to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law," he said.

The third-largest unsecured creditor is Alliance Grain Co., a Gibson City-based farmer co-op with 13 grain elevators in Central Illinois. The $449,657 debt stems from Printz failing to deliver on a sales contract for more than 250,000 bushels of corn for an ethanol plant, said Alliance Grain General Manager Joe Thompson.

Thompson said he did not know why Printz did not deliver, but the contract shortage put the farmer on the hook for the lost bushels.

"Half a million dollars is significant. But it's nothing our company can't stand," Thompson said, adding that Printz is not currently allowed to do business with Alliance.

A hearing related to the bankruptcy is set for 10 a.m. Friday in Springfield. The Printzes are seeking approval to use some cash collateral and obtain credit for farming inputs for the 2011 crop, so they can continue to operate their businesses and "preserve and enhance the value of their estate," according to court filings.

The Printzes' filing puts their estimated total assets at $10 million to $50 million. They own houses in Fairbury and Anchor, and have their principal offices and operations in Fairbury and Lexington, records show.

Chapter 11 bankruptcy provides generally for reorganization, usually involving a corporation or a partnership. It usually sets out a plan to keep a business going and pay back creditors over time.

Attempts to reach the Printzes or their attorneys were not successful Thursday.

http://www.pantagraph.com/business/local/article_2aa8f1ee-19b5-11e0-a0a3-001cc4c002e0.html

Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 1/8/2011 08:39 (#1534423 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


NEMO
So what do ya think about that Ralph? Anyone else got an opinion? Personally I think we are gonna be seein alot more of this happening to these 'high fliers', not neccessarily BTO's either. With the way things are done, ecspecially in Illinois, I fully expect they will be able to continue to "operate their business" and "preserve and enhance the value of their estate". What about the businesses and estates of those they screwed? Have a hard time feelin sorry for these types. Just sayin.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tj_farmer
Posted 1/8/2011 08:40 (#1534424 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: RE: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


NW central IL
i heard what was happening on this deal this spring. i hope they make sure this piece of work never farms again. they also need to throw the elevator manager in jail, if they havent already

Edited by tj_farmer 1/8/2011 08:41
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pat H
Posted 1/8/2011 09:47 (#1534504 - in reply to #1534424)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


cropsey, il 61731
Yep. This kind of behavior needs to have consequences. I get the idea that part of their current plan is to act like they are too big too fail. Golly I bet no one would be available to farm that ground - might need some fertilizer and some work to get the ruts out, but I'll bet there is almost 1607 of us willing to step in at reasonable rent.

On the elevator side of things I thought grain paperwork is covered by some pretty significant law and messing with things has some significant penalties.

I wonder how many folks thought they were all 'good friends' doing business until this started happening. I also wonder if all the landowners have been paid up front as is par for the course? I guess the bank could order that some sort of sublease be done to rent the ground to others and generate some cash.

thanks,

Pat

PS: When they built their large houses it was brought up that 'you can't take the principle residence in bk' - maybe why it was an early priority in there operation.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ISU71
Posted 1/8/2011 09:51 (#1534514 - in reply to #1534424)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


When an operation of that size goes down it makes a big splash with large riples. Don't know anything about the people, good or bad. I'm guesing that there's alot about the financial dealings that the public doesn't know. These type of things can happen to any size operation. I pray that i'm not one of them.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Illinois Steve
Posted 1/8/2011 10:07 (#1534547 - in reply to #1534514)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


North Central Illinois
What do you mean this kind of thing can happen to any size operation? This guy and the elevator manager engaged in dishonest and illegal activity. They brought this on themselves. They weren't a victim of circumstances or bad luck. It will be a shame if they get to keep farming.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ISU71
Posted 1/8/2011 16:12 (#1535134 - in reply to #1534547)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


My bad Steve. I really don't know anything about these people or thier practices. I should have refrained from commeting till I knew more. Thanks for the heads up.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pat H
Posted 1/8/2011 10:09 (#1534551 - in reply to #1534514)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


cropsey, il 61731
The whole story is hard to know - rumor was that an inheritance primed the pump and a go big or go home attitude defined the business. I don't know that they were ever particularily good at any aspect of farming accept offering high cash rent. There were some comments like 'he is a master marketer' (to bad for us he didn't post here more often - I guess). At any rate, when it started it was pretty clear it was going to end poorly at some point unless they got really 'lucky' every year. It looks like some creativity with elevators and suppliers (CNH financed the machines) extended the life span of the operation, but just because you have a 36 row planter doesn't mean it's going to work.

Apparently they never got to 10K acres, though I heard that was the goal. There are 10K operations in the area, but they operate very differently, got that way over a much longer period of time, and have many more management capable people involved. To me this is a great example of how the flash in the pan bto model completely fails and it doesn't have to get really really big to crash.

thanks,

Pat

Edited by Pat H 1/8/2011 10:11
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rab1964
Posted 1/8/2011 10:28 (#1534590 - in reply to #1534551)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Pat, I too could be a "master marketer" if I did not deliver my sub $4 corn sales and delivered that corn to another elevator for $6 after the fact. That would be the reason for the $450000 loss at Alliance Grain. Unfortunatly for me, that's not how I am. I guess I'll keep paying my bills and his and be an average marketer.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bugkiller
Posted 1/8/2011 12:33 (#1534778 - in reply to #1534590)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Its actually 462,000 and change to alliance grain, but the pantagraph article said they could absorb that! Guess who will be absorbing? Everyone who sells them grain. Maybe I should post the legal paperwork I downloaded from google. The absolute best is the 770,000 he owes channel. How did he get 3 brand new trucks to drive from him that say channel seed? This wasn't just him and an elevator manager, there is alot parties involved. RCIS to the seed companies and everyone in between. The total debt between secured and non secured is over 15 million! He even owes his accountant like 26,000. How do you rack up a 43,000 gredit card debt? All Chase customers get to absorb that too I guess. This whole thing stinks and I bet they award him chapter 11 which is just plain wrong. Now I know how he rented them farms up by rab1964 for 427 dollars an acre. If it wasn't for these prices going up I have a feeling there would be threads similiar to this weekly.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tj_farmer
Posted 1/8/2011 16:00 (#1535116 - in reply to #1534778)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


NW central IL
did the elevator manager ever get any jailtime for what i heard he was doing? the check issue/payback deal
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pat H
Posted 1/8/2011 16:31 (#1535172 - in reply to #1535116)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


cropsey, il 61731
I don't think the law moves too fast in these situations. From my understanding from other elevator guys in the area that they pretty much had to sell out to take care of the problem - generate cash or what I'm not sure, but it had to happen pretty quick. It will probably take a year or more for the legal fallout to take place.

From purely an outsider viewpoint though I'm in the area, I wonder if Bob P. could have consolidated at 3500 or so acres and called it good and been one of those guys we all call lucky, but wish we had his circumstances. I suppose that might take all the discipline in the world to step on the brakes, but I'm thinking the story would have been much different if he had. He probably would have been a board member of all the various banks and elevators that are after him now. It's a lesson for all of us.

thanks,

Pat
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bugkiller
Posted 1/8/2011 17:39 (#1535312 - in reply to #1535172)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Guys like him don't stop pat they have to big of egos. Everytime he opens his mouth it was another"big deal". Wait until the irs gets done with him if you think all this blows your mind.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Scillfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 09:39 (#1536448 - in reply to #1534590)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



southern edge of central illinois
Plowboy- it seems rather stupid to blame the cash forward contract that has been used for years millions of times without any issues,
for this problem. The problem is the ethical standards of a very few who decide not to meet their side of the legally binding
contract. I would say the blame lies with the "gentleman" being discussed here.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
supertiquer
Posted 1/10/2011 22:52 (#1540491 - in reply to #1534514)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


central, Il.
It won't happen to me because I pay my bills.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mizzou Tiger
Posted 1/8/2011 10:06 (#1534545 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: Not surprising and brings up two


points........first point is one that I alluded to a couple of months ago.....the larger or BTO might actually start to have a harder time operating in this current environment......while they can roll certain expenses over more acres, they also can "lose their edge" trying to intensively manage large acres......their cost per acre might be a little lower, but their overall average may be lower resulting in a net loss of efficiency.....they are also probably renting a big share of their operation which probably contains some "expensive acres" and some "less than optimal acres" which do not help either....

The second point has two stories.....the first is that while 2007 and 2008 were very good for many of these guys until they found out what CAN happen when inputs prices are elevated and grain prices come down and then 2009 and 2010 happen when 200 bu corn is not a given.......for you guys waiting for this ag bubble to pop.....it might already be happening, but its not a secular pop, its going to happen to those that were running on too thin of a margin.......yet the industry still goes on......the second part IMO is one that many were facing in this area this year, only producing about 50-70% of normal and having contracts for 50-80% of production......the corn crop in 2009 was shorter than most will admit and 2010 is really short, some of these guys simply don't have the bushels to meet commitments......

Farming used to be about building equity........for some it still is......however a lot of these big operations are run just like a company.....money in money out and you better have a retirement plan because virtually nothing is owned.......and what is owned will likely be split many ways......and when the balance sheet doesn't see black for a few quarters or years.......well story says it all.....

Edited by Mizzou Tiger 1/8/2011 10:09
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JonSCKs
Posted 1/8/2011 11:44 (#1534703 - in reply to #1534545)
Subject: Volatility.. Well said.


"for you guys waiting for this ag bubble to pop.....it might already be happening, but its not a secular pop, its going to happen to those that were running on too thin of a margin..."

We're seeing some hiccups over in this neck of the woods also..  Everyone thinks we in Ag are making out like bandits... here are some interesting tidbits from my accountant..

a) When diesel fuel hit $4.00 in 08.. it was costing us just under $18,000 per WEEK to keep the water flowing...

b) Our fertilizer bill ALONE in 08 was larger than our cash receipts for the entire farm in the mid 1980's.. over about the same amount/slightly smaller.. of acerage.  We are near those levels again... and we flat out may not apply fertility to some acreage this year.. given the prospects.

Margins are TIGHT in Ag..  $4.00 diesel fuel, Stratospheric fertilizer bills.. (not sure if we buy the N for the Wheat top dressing this year or not..???) Sky high seed costs.. etc..

Today you've got guys forward contracted on a lot of $3.00 corn.. which is okay if you bought $3.00 corn inputs.. Today corn inputs are $6.00.. which if you are selling $6.00 you can still pencil... However, paying $6.00 inputs with $3.00 corn... isn't going to work...  and the law won't let you "switch and market" your way out of it... (aka forget the $3.00 contract and shhhh!! sell across the street for $6.00...    no.. can... do...)

Here on the plains.. alot of our wheat isn't up yet.. we need this weekend's snow.. or the fertilizer companies can keep their high dollar N!!!  ditto the seed companies...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
wheat farmer
Posted 1/8/2011 16:24 (#1535151 - in reply to #1534545)
Subject: RE: Not surprising and brings up two



You mean you can't just leverage your way through and keep going without a hitch?  I thought that was what the leverage was for, when times get rough.  Wow, who would ever have thought there was an example floating around of what happens when a person is not keeping equity in the business.  :~)

Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 1/8/2011 17:17 (#1535259 - in reply to #1535151)
Subject: RE: Not surprising and brings up two


NEMO

wheat farmer you would make the best corn combine ever built. All you do is pick, pick, pick. LOL

Top of the page Bottom of the page
wheat farmer
Posted 1/8/2011 20:52 (#1535753 - in reply to #1535259)
Subject: RE: Not surprising and brings up two



Don't fall off your stool chuckling.   O lord it's hard to be humble.........

Top of the page Bottom of the page
PeteMN
Posted 1/8/2011 23:23 (#1536069 - in reply to #1534545)
Subject: How can they not have $$ to deliver, crop insurance


E.Central MN
I don't get it. So what if his crop was only 50% or whatever, his crop insurance is supposed to pay for whatever crop he sold up to his insured level. At least thats what the experts tell us at every crop insurance meeting I've attended.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pat H
Posted 1/9/2011 08:42 (#1536339 - in reply to #1536069)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


cropsey, il 61731
I don't think there was a crop loss or at least not enough to kick in insurance. Probably just delivered somewhere else. When you get some size you should be allowed to do that, shouldn't you? (sarcasm)

thanks,

Pat
Top of the page Bottom of the page
supertiquer
Posted 1/10/2011 23:09 (#1540560 - in reply to #1536069)
Subject: Hey Pete?


central, Il.
who says he took crop insurance out?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/10/2011 23:23 (#1540603 - in reply to #1540560)
Subject: RE: Hey Pete?



Brazilton KS

well, given that he was financed deep enough to go bankrupt, I would expect the lender said so.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/10/2011 23:26 (#1540615 - in reply to #1540603)
Subject: RE: Hey Pete?


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

Not always plowboy.



Edited by acfarmer 1/11/2011 07:51
Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/10/2011 23:50 (#1540672 - in reply to #1540615)
Subject: RE: Hey Pete?



Brazilton KS

I don't much go for letting lenders tell me how to run my business, but then we're not bankrupt, either, so they don't need to. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ralph
Posted 1/8/2011 10:11 (#1534555 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: Non delivery issues.


With a little research the litigation surrounding non delivery is larger than one thinks. Illinois happens to be a state with a grain fund and the farmers have some protection. Recall Ty-Walk? A-Way are a few recent events.

A large non-delivery issue happened between another BTO and substantial regional grain merchant in Champaign. This case is in federal court a few years ago that claimed millions. Looking in circuit courts will also reveal some more non-delivery claims of a more minor nature.

The tragedy that a community business is destroyed or future customers will get less as the elevator adjusts their margins to recover lost equity.

An equal tradegy for farmers is fewer delivery points.   

Know your counterparties.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
yathink
Posted 1/8/2011 12:29 (#1534771 - in reply to #1534555)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


north central iowa
Good point Ralph. Counterparty risk is like an iceberg sometimes, lurking just below the surface. How is the best way to minimize that risk? I have no way to look at their financials, not that I could figure it out anyway, but it seems that a seller is in the dark about the financial viability of a buyer. I received deferred payment after Jan. 1, and thought after the fact that it was probably a poor way to manage tax liability. It was a local coop, but they sell to alot of end users who may not have a handle on risk. Think VeraSun, etc.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 1/8/2011 13:01 (#1534840 - in reply to #1534771)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


USA
Yathink,

You are right, about giving credit without knowing whole fiancial picture. Have got some people that still owe me, have always paid in the past. Not going to break me, if don't get paid, but if don't get collected will have peddled chemicals last year basicly with not much profit. My credit policy for 11 has changed, either pre pay or cash. I am nervous about some of these folks and don't deal with any of BTO types.

Edited by coup 1/8/2011 13:03
Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 1/8/2011 14:03 (#1534933 - in reply to #1534840)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


NEMO
Coup why do you think some of these people still owe you money. Are some having hard times personally or do you think they are just generally getting behind on things? I assume from your post that people are usually paid up by this time of year? Am starting to hear a few whispers of the ame kind around here, although we haven't had alot of good to excellent crops back to back here either.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 1/9/2011 09:19 (#1536408 - in reply to #1534933)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


USA
Kcirp,

Guess reason haven't got paid is a probably a shortage of funds. Have observed over the last several years, that some have slipped farther behind every year. If get to around July and haven't collected when a bill has been sent, might as well figure not going to get paid until fall. Well this year on some still haven't collected, would assume several $ has flowed through their bank account since fall.

IMO, easy credit is the root of some of the money problems that are popping up. With the likes of PHI, Farm Plan, Credit Cards, and retail accounts, pretty easy to camoufloge money problems for awhile.

Maybe I am the cause of some of the problem, as have never hasseled anybody much about paying, when bills were over due. Last two years have gotten worse and has gotten to the point have had to take money from the farming side of the operation to fiance the chemical side because of slow collections. This year is the straw that broke the camels back, not worth the risk anymore to continue down this path.

Turned some people awawy last year and told them would probably be best if they went elsewhere to do business, am going to do the same with some more this year.

Looks to me like the spread has been widening over the last 3- 5 years between the group that is on shakey ground and those that are not. IMO there is going to be more than one ag related businesses that will be brought to their knees, over the next several years from farmer's biting the dust.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
pointrow
Posted 1/9/2011 22:51 (#1538224 - in reply to #1536408)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Central Il Morton

coup - 1/9/2011 08:19 Kcirp, Guess reason haven't got paid is a probably a shortage of funds. Have observed over the last several years, that some have slipped farther behind every year. If get to around July and haven't collected when a bill has been sent, might as well figure not going to get paid until fall. Well this year on some still haven't collected, would assume several $ has flowed through their bank account since fall. IMO, easy credit is the root of some of the money problems that are popping up. With the likes of PHI, Farm Plan, Credit Cards, and retail accounts, pretty easy to camoufloge money problems for awhile. Maybe I am the cause of some of the problem, as have never hasseled anybody much about paying, when bills were over due. Last two years have gotten worse and has gotten to the point have had to take money from the farming side of the operation to fiance the chemical side because of slow collections. This year is the straw that broke the camels back, not worth the risk anymore to continue down this path. Turned some people awawy last year and told them would probably be best if they went elsewhere to do business, am going to do the same with some more this year. Looks to me like the spread has been widening over the last 3- 5 years between the group that is on shakey ground and those that are not. IMO there is going to be more than one ag related businesses that will be brought to their knees, over the next several years from farmer's biting the dust.

Coup I am seeing the same thing. In 10 years of doing tile work I have never had anyone not pay in 30 days. I've never even had to send a 2nd invoice. This is the first year I feel I'm going to be holding the bag on some accounts.

later
pointrow

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ralph
Posted 1/8/2011 14:37 (#1534980 - in reply to #1534840)
Subject: Three D's telling about risk


It is ironic that the elevator guys go to industry meetings and one of the recurring topics is counterparty risk. Meaning the farmer risk to the grain elevator and the mantra is know your customer. They is you do 360 they do not like farmer's prying into their financial condition. And the ag vendors are another risk for the farmer, especially with the prepay issue.

A long time mentor offered up that key events that change the financial condition are the 3D's.
Death
Divorce
Disability
and could likely add Disaster to cover the farming production risks.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Brandon SWIA
Posted 1/9/2011 10:11 (#1536519 - in reply to #1534980)
Subject: RE: Three D's telling about risk


Don't forget drink/drugs.

I bet divorce and substance abuse made up 90% of our non-performing loans when I was in banking. Back when you had to do the big sit-downs with examiners, it was like the local soap opera hour.

Throw gambling in too.

Brandon
Top of the page Bottom of the page
9kids
Posted 1/8/2011 13:44 (#1534899 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



central illinois
Don't know why you would not have access to financials of a local coop you do business with. Knowing how to read them is a matter of educating yourself. Managing counterparty risk is another aspect of running any successful business, from a farm, to a reail business, to a Cargill or ADM.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dixonman
Posted 1/8/2011 16:00 (#1535118 - in reply to #1534899)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


They have comic books down at the corner drug store which would be just as informative and a lot more entertaining than the financials you will get in this situation.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
PeteMN
Posted 1/8/2011 23:39 (#1536094 - in reply to #1534899)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


E.Central MN
While you could determine if the coop had some non-performing accts by looking at their financials, I don't think it would be as easy to find out if they had some big farmers that decided to not deliver on their contracts until it was too late.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
yathink
Posted 1/9/2011 11:07 (#1536649 - in reply to #1534899)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


north central iowa
If I look at the account receivables, and I see a number of $2,000,000 and I ask who and why, they will probably tell me that they sell that one entity that much grain every month. If that entity tanks or screws up their hedging, the coop is out and we are all in trouble. I'm just saying that I can look at plenty of numbers but with the market volatility, the transparency is cloudy. Do you examine the financials of everybody you sell to?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
doitinthedirt
Posted 1/8/2011 20:31 (#1535707 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: RE: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Northeast Indiana
Famous last words? Found this article intersting. Article was posted in December of 2009.

LEXINGTON -- Back in June, Bob Printz never thought he'd still be harvesting his corn crop in December. But with Christmas around the corner, he's still got 20 percent of his 9,000 acres to go.

Mother Nature is at it again. After a soggy year that slowed planting and created harvest delays not seen since the 1960s, Lexington-based Printz Farms and other Central Illinois operations are dealing with this week's snow, sleet and dangerously strong winds.

On Tuesday, snow in a 40-acre field in Pontiac froze up Printz's combine, forcing him to wait until the snow comes off the stalks.

"Machines are kind of like people. I don't think they like working in the cold a whole lot either. Everything breaks easier," he said.

The weather has created challenges that farmers like Printz have never dealt with before, with some hoping that the commodities market takes note of their weather woes and adjusts prices accordingly.

Traditionally, harvest is done by around Halloween, but about 15 percent of Illinois corn is still in the ground, according to the latest data from the National Agricultural Statistics Service. Soybeans were completed first.

A nontraditional harvest meets a traditional Central Illinois winter. The big concern: Can stalks that lasted this long withstand strong winter winds, like the 50 mph gusts seen Wednesday?

"If a tree can't handle it, certainly a corn stalk can't handle it," said Don Meyer from the University of Illinois Extension in McLean County.

Barring a blizzard, some minor snow isn't a big deal for corn, though it does add to the danger of moving equipment around country roads.

And chilly temperatures could be a silver lining for farmers like Printz who have been battling muddy fields, which will partially freeze, making it easier to use combines, said John Hawkins at the Illinois Farm Bureau.

Add to that some shorter lines at elevators, and the end may be in sight.

"It's been a long haul," said Printz.

The bottom line

This year's crop has also socked farmers in the pocketbook, from high drying costs to delays in fall fieldwork. Adding to that are low test weights, a common coffee-shop complaint among farmers.

If corn wasn't planted until June, it may not have had time or the right conditions to mature properly, making the kernel lighter than usual. This hits farmers' bottom lines because a bushel of standard corn is legally supposed to weigh 56 pounds -- not 52 pounds, a common weight seen this year, said Brian Basting, commodity market analyst at Advance Trading in Bloomington.

Farmers are docked money when they sell that lighter corn. (Plus, simply because there are more lighter kernels floating around, storage is at a premium at country elevators, said Basting.)

Mark Henrichs, who farms 5,000 acres in Livingston County, just finished harvest and averaged about 185 bushels an acre, as much as 30 bushels off his average. He blames low test weight for throwing off his final yield.

"Less dollars to the farmer means less dollars to the community," Printz said.

Concerns about the crop -- plus some outside market pressures -- fueled a rebound in corn prices that began just after Labor Day, said Basting. That rise has since cooled. (Beans are above $10 per bushel, an excellent price, thanks to strong demand, he said.)

Printz hopes the Chicago Board of Trade takes note of the ongoing challenges of this year's crop. March futures were above $3.80 this week.

"We need corn above $4," he said. "If we can get that to happen, things will be fine."

http://www.pantagraph.com/business/article_898a98a2-e4fa-11de-b152-...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 01:57 (#1536207 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: Look at the bigger issue



Brazilton KS
If you step back and look at the big picture, you should see that this is a perfect example of what is wrong with cash forward contracts which are not subject to margin.

This is why we have a futures market. Use it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rab1964
Posted 1/9/2011 05:12 (#1536236 - in reply to #1536207)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Around here it is predomitely forward cash sales. If you choose to forward sale you either do a forward sale or a HTA, I believe amongst many other legal sales. If you chose to use the futures market that is fine, that would be a hedge. When you SELL ALOT OF BUSHELS TO THE ETHANOL PLANT AND CHOSE NOT TO DELIVER (AS IN $450000t) AND,AND DELIVER ELSEWHERE AT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE I THINK IT IS THEFT. If I chose to continue to do business with the said board after THEY said "half a million dollars is significant, but nothing our company can't stand", I am equally as stupid as they are in my opinion! At this point I wish that I did not have several 10's of thousands of bushels in storage with them. Another reason to add to your own personal grain storage in my opinion.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bugkiller
Posted 1/9/2011 10:23 (#1536554 - in reply to #1536207)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


No your way off. The big picture is this guy was a retarded bad farmer, his wife spent money like a drunken sailor, and his head was the size of Texas. out of 15 millions plus debt does anyone really think 460000 is a big deal? He is short 250000 bushel, from what I've witnessed first hand, he throws that out the back of a combine every 5 years or so. You can't fix stupid.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 1/9/2011 10:46 (#1536604 - in reply to #1536554)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


USA
Bugkiller,

How do you expect to gain this guys future chemical businees, when you talk about him in a such a negative manner. He will probably looking for some new suppliers after he gets things lined out.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bugkiller
Posted 1/9/2011 11:05 (#1536645 - in reply to #1536604)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Gosh I never thought about that. Oh well you call a spade a spade and move on. I think most don't understand how incompetent this guy is.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MarlandS
Posted 1/9/2011 11:27 (#1536698 - in reply to #1536645)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Ellsworth IL
Now now Bugkiller, I had a guy gonna kick my butt because I said something negative about Prince Printz , said he was a good man and a good farmer and would pull through this ( this was 6 months ago BTW ) besides even though he lost about 1,000 acres last year he picked up about 1,500 ( numbers are off the point remains) and you won't be doing business with him , the rented land is going in his son in laws name as I understand it .
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bugkiller
Posted 1/9/2011 12:04 (#1536768 - in reply to #1536698)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Yeah I heard the son in law has a lot of stuff in his name now. I have a feeling his credit score will be dropping soon!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MarlandS
Posted 1/9/2011 12:23 (#1536791 - in reply to #1536768)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Ellsworth IL
How much Kool aid is he drinking to think that it will go any way other than bad for him ? Or Snyder who is buying the land for Printz to farm now ? Bob was quoted once as saying as long as he made $10 an acre net he was happy, wonder what he says about that now ?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dvswia
Posted 1/9/2011 11:06 (#1536646 - in reply to #1536604)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


sw corner ia.
yes, and for sure the new supplier will be expected to carry the full cost of his inputs till the bto feels like paying anything at all.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
rab1964
Posted 1/9/2011 11:50 (#1536739 - in reply to #1536604)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Run Forrest Run
Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 17:39 (#1537402 - in reply to #1536207)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue



Brazilton KS

You guys are missing my point.  My point is that the elevator should have never taken such a position without some sort of guarantee of performance.   This is why cash sales are inherently risky.  If you keep the margin up, there is no risk of "non-delivery" because you already have the money in hand.  Well, I suppose there is still some slight logistic risk, but there is no opportunity to end up millions out. 

 

 

 

Can someone provide a place to read the details of this deal?  I can see what I imagine happened, but I do not know for sure.  It sounds to me like part of it was a typical "price later" deal where they forward some percentage up front on grain delivered, then futures went bad producing losses greater then the "slack" they had left between the bid and the amount they forwarded?    The failure to deliver part I am pretty sure I understand....elevator cash contracted with farmer and did not collect any margin from him, so when the futures went bad they were out the margin money on their own account and never colelcted any from the cash selller....then when he defaulted, they were holding the bag.  

 

Sorry, I'm sure some of you are going to get all wound up and yell at me, but the managers who got the elevators into these deals should have been smart enough to see the risks they were taking in the event of customer's defaulting due to bankruptcy or whatever.  Basically they were carrying speculative futures positions on behalf of the customer, using their account to finance it. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
CRJ
Posted 1/9/2011 18:12 (#1537456 - in reply to #1537402)
Subject: RE: And you are missing...


NEIN
an even bigger point, they should never have been that big to begin with. How efficient is their operation now if you figure in the losses(read deferred costs) everyone else is going to take on their going under. Your right about one thing, no one should have dealt with them without being more secured. Reqiuring them to hedge their own production would have worked because the first margin call they missed they would have been out of their position. This is no different than bailing out GM or the banks, they never were and still arent efficient. Oh wait, maybe that will happen for these guys too. Economies of scale ended along time ago for these guys, and for most their size, that is the real lesson here.

Edited by CRJ 1/10/2011 08:17
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MarlandS
Posted 1/9/2011 18:42 (#1537527 - in reply to #1537402)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Ellsworth IL
Here are some of the details as I remember them . My only qualification is I was working there the week that it was discovered and that I'm friends with several board members and I'm SURE I didn't get the whole story .

The deal was crept up on with Printz coming across with parts here and there but always returning to get a little more all the while offering more bushels to the elevator incrementally "borrowing " and delivering as needed, then "borrowed" more than he could cover . Tim ( the manager) was impressed with bringing 1,000,000 more bushels to the elevator than previous years and, more than likely was looking to bring an additional million into the next . He got himself in so deep with 100% pay forwards that as Printz explained to him the only hope was to give him more to dig out . ** It is rumored that after the discovery , while in a meeting with cobanks rep , the board pres, his lawyer, their lawyer and his wife he suggested they give him another half mil $ and that would make it possibe to fix everything. Again, rumor ***

As far as anyone can tell so far, the only thing the elevator manager was getting out of this was the ego boost of being able to "prove" himself the the board . He had gone from outside man to manager screwed up , went back to being outside man then they gave him another shot and he was determined to make them proud , as my kids would say "epic fail" . But it was looking good for a while .

This past fall Printz had gone around to several elevators trying to get "a deal" for bringing all his bushels to one facility or another , no one fell for it this time .
Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 18:47 (#1537537 - in reply to #1537527)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Brazilton KS

MarlandS - 1/9/2011 17:42 ** It is rumored that after the discovery , while in a meeting with cobanks rep , the board pres, his lawyer, their lawyer and his wife he suggested they give him another half mil $ and that would make it possibe to fix everything. Again, rumor *** /QUOTE]

 

 

Lol...that's a classic one....I've heard that exact line from someone on the other side of the grain buying game. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 19:28 (#1537672 - in reply to #1537402)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

Yeah always someone elses fault, not the farmers.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 19:36 (#1537697 - in reply to #1536207)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

I would say there is nothing wrong with cash forward contracts. Honor your damn contract. Here is a prime example of one of your ##$#$%$$ Never mind not going to get into it. one thing strikes me odd , You seem to be half a##ed sticking up for the farmer here ployboy.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 20:27 (#1537823 - in reply to #1537697)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue



Brazilton KS

Someday you need to learn how to freaking read.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 1/9/2011 20:37 (#1537847 - in reply to #1537823)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


NEMO
wouldn't hurt for him to learn typing and spelling too. Its plowboy not ployboy.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 20:41 (#1537855 - in reply to #1537847)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Brazilton KS

I kinda wondered if that was just him intentionally being a jackass, but I have had the same mispell happen on racing chat boards by numerous people with no prior history, so I guess I'm chalking it up to poor speed typing....although it seems like an illogical typo...being the opposite hand and all. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 20:51 (#1537888 - in reply to #1537855)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

It was a typo. Sorry, hard to type laying on the couch , keeping your one year old from banging on the keyboard.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 20:57 (#1537907 - in reply to #1537888)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy



Brazilton KS

lol...always interesting having to fight for control of the keyboard.

 

Typing on a laptop in the dark is fun, too. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 20:49 (#1537884 - in reply to #1537823)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

I read just fine. You sit there talking about the elevator this elevator that.,  never really mention the BTO that screwed them. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 21:01 (#1537921 - in reply to #1537884)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue



Brazilton KS

As the manager of the elevator, there are certain things which are under your control, and certain things which you have less ability to control.   Someone else declaring bankruptcy is definitely in the second group.   It is your job as a manager to prevent things which are out of your control from putting you of business.    It certainly appears from the facts reported that the guy running that place failed to do that.

I have said nothing about the farmer.  You are making that up on your own. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 22:03 (#1538091 - in reply to #1537921)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

plowboy - 1/9/2011 20:01

I have said nothing about the farmer.  You are making that up on your own. 



While You tell me I need to learn to freaking read I think you could use a lesson. I never said you mentioned the farmer. That was what I am pointing out. YOU COME ACROSS THAT THE ELEVATOR SHOULDNT HAVE LET ANY OF THIS HAPPEN AND ITS ALL THERE FAULT. It takes to to tango. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
plowboy
Posted 1/9/2011 22:10 (#1538109 - in reply to #1538091)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue



Brazilton KS

Well, if the manager worked for me, either directly or as a board member, you can bet he would be held accountable for it.  It would appear that the board members thought likewise.     Bankruptcy is part of the legal climate.    If you want to remain in business, you better keep that in mind and not crawl out on a limb like that.  I can't believe they didn't cover that in coop-manager prep school. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
acfarmer
Posted 1/9/2011 23:21 (#1538301 - in reply to #1538109)
Subject: RE: Look at the bigger issue


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.

I cant believe they didnt teach how to manage a farm , dont take on too much risk, fullfill your contracts and pay your bills in BTO 101.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
FromtheFlats
Posted 1/9/2011 18:02 (#1537442 - in reply to #1534371)
Subject: Re: Farmer in illinois grain elevator case files for bankruptcy


EC IL
He sells $4 corn market goes to $5. He likes that dollar more than the coop he flies off to go get his dollar. Now the coop has margin calls, basis position and so on, now he is out of corn and none for the coop, congrats your bankrupt. This guy is a tool we all know someone like him. Know who you do business with and why and what the risks are and you could really cut these problems in half.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

(Delete cookies)