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Clay-All-Over

Posted 5/11/2010 23:03 (#1195222)
Subject: Ester vs Amine

Eastern Ontario

Looking at using some MCPA. So what is the difference between the Ester and Amine formulations? When do I use what? I think it has been discussed here before, but I can't find it right quick.

EricM

Posted 5/11/2010 23:11 (#1195244 - in reply to #1195222)
Subject: RE: Ester vs Amine

Esters are less volatile, work faster, antagonize less but cost slightly more. Amines are wimpy.....work slow, especially if conditions are not ideal, but do hand around longer and are cheaper.

Clay-All-Over

Posted 5/11/2010 23:26 (#1195275 - in reply to #1195244)
Subject: RE: Ester vs Amine

Eastern Ontario

Thanks for the info.

So in a burndown situation where I want the least chance of crop injury, .....I'd go with an Ester?

Ham

Posted 5/12/2010 06:26 (#1195500 - in reply to #1195244)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

Blvd d'Espair Bowhill, Sth Aust

Esters less volatile than Amine formulations ?
Are you sure..?

How come in MCPA , when it isn't so in 2.4-D..?

steiner43511

Posted 5/11/2010 23:26 (#1195279 - in reply to #1195222)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

Northern Ohio Grain

If you are doing burndown, you would be better off using a 2,4-D product rather than MCPA. Better bang for your buck. Also go with the ester over the amine for burndown.

Edited by steiner43511 5/11/2010 23:28

EricM

Posted 5/11/2010 23:35 (#1195306 - in reply to #1195279)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

I agree 2,4-D is a better bang for your buck. What are you burning down and in which crop?

Clay-All-Over

Posted 5/11/2010 23:51 (#1195339 - in reply to #1195306)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

Eastern Ontario

horsetail in a planted field of soybeans.

I know. I'm playing with fire. It should never be done, but it's cheap and it works. I used MCPA amine at a rate of 3.4 oz/a in with the glyphosate last year. Did the job, just wanted to know if there was a safer formulation.

For anyone reading this: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

dvswia

Posted 5/12/2010 07:42 (#1195546 - in reply to #1195339)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

sw corner ia.

put up some pics of what your beans look like 2 weeks after application. I was under the strong impression amine on beans would give a rather negative impression on them.

Used to hear about use of butyrac which is also a 2-4D formulation, might look into that.

Works a lot better to plant in a clean seedbed.

95h

Posted 5/12/2010 10:01 (#1195776 - in reply to #1195339)
Subject: Re: Amine safer Salt Based . Site worth everyone Saving ..

Kittitas Co. Wa. State

Ester's are isooctyl ester [oil] based,, VOLITILE

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp273001.pdf

Amine's are salt based, lot LESS VOLITILE.

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp972000.pdf

Here are the links to same Wilber Ellis MCPA product one is Ester based,, Two is Amine [salt] based.

Don't follow the ester based is safer. Here is a link to the home page Well worth saving the link for everyone.

http://www.cdms.net/LabelsMsds/LMDefault.aspx?t=

Edited by 95h 5/12/2010 10:03

co.drylandfarmer

Posted 5/12/2010 09:49 (#1195756 - in reply to #1195222)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

Carlton, CO

http://entweb.clemson.edu/pesticid/saftyed/24Ddrift.htm

Herbicide volatility
All herbicides can drift as spray droplets, but some herbicides are sufficiently volatile to cause plant injury from drift of vapor (fumes). For example, 2,4-D or MCPA esters may produce damaging vapors, while 2,4-D or MCPA amines are essentially non-volatile and can drift only as droplets or dry particles.
Vapor drift occurs when a volatile herbicide changes from solid or liquid into a gaseous state and moves from the target area. Herbicide vapor may drift farther and over a longer time than spray droplets. However, spray droplets can move over two miles under certain environmental conditions so crop injury a long distance from the intended target is not necessarily due to vapor drift. A wind blowing away from a susceptible crop during application will prevent damage from droplet drift, but a later wind shift could move damaging vapors from the treated field into the susceptible crop. An experiment conducted in Canada demonstrated that 3 to 4 percent of both 2,4-D amine and high volatile ester drifted out of the target area as spray droplets. However an additional 25 to 30 percent of the ester drifted as vapor in the first 30 minutes after spraying while no additional movement of the amine was detected (7).

msb

Posted 5/12/2010 09:55 (#1195767 - in reply to #1195222)
Subject: Re: Ester vs Amine

Lapel, In

Amine for bean burn down is a no no in my opinion. It simply hangs around too long and can cause serious damage to germinating beans should rainfall carry it down to the seed. Turns the beans into something that looks alot like bubblegum. Ester can do the same thing, but the window for damage is a lot shorter. Its one of the first things I learned about no-tilling beans when BASF did some studies on burn down options in one of my fields in the 1980s.

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