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Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?
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massey1105
Posted 11/10/2024 10:35 (#10960848)
Subject: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Greenleaf, WI		Why do modern Deere, Case Ih, and Agco tractors not have tilting cabs to make maintenance and cleaning easier? I would think that it would be easy to make them tilt since most everything in the cab is now run by electrical wires.



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chinband
Posted 11/10/2024 10:42 (#10960861 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Mendota illinois		Well, that is quite obvious they would make things too easy. They couldn’t make enough money with the proper engineering. A lot of things could be done, but everybody’s in the business to make money off of someone else since I quit working at the dealership I see things in a lot different light.
Have a good day
Rich
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oldbones
Posted 11/10/2024 12:27 (#10961037 - in reply to #10960861)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



Floyd County, Iowa
chinband - 11/10/2024 10:42

Well, that is quite obvious they would make things too easy. They couldn’t make enough money with the proper engineering. A lot of things could be done, but everybody’s in the business to make money off of someone else since I quit working at the dealership I see things in a lot different light.
Have a good day
Rich



Tin foil hat needed.
I call BS on your notion that manufacturers do this to make sure they have a steady stream of repair income.
It goes against ALL common sense to think they do. If they did, people wouldn't keep buying their product.
I don't care that you worked in a dealership, you are/were not on the manufacturing side of it. They design to save manufacturing costs, not ensure higher repair costs in the future.
Common sense would say that it would cost more to make a cab that easily and quickly tilts out of the way. If it were easy and cheap to design and build, someone would have come out with aftermarket conversion kits for tilting, and most guys would have one, including me. But most guys would not want to pay the higher manufacturing costs associated with making tilting cabs where you just pull a latch and tilt it up to blow out the dirt.










.
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JRCS Farms
Posted 11/10/2024 12:38 (#10961053 - in reply to #10961037)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


North Central Indiana		I disagree with some of your sentiment. Take something as simple as pickup truck headlights for example. Early 2000s Chevy and GMC had two small metal pins that held headlight fixtures in place, to replace a bulb you pulled them out and changed the bulb and put them back in. No tools necessary, it was a 30 second job. Since mid 2007 they’ve had fixtures that are bolted in, some models have bolts underneath trim pieces so you have to remove the trim to get to the bolt. It wasn’t necessary to change them, but it did make it so the average owner is more likely to pay a service tech to change the lightbulb. Batteries are another one, on a newer Chevy equinox, you have to remove the front engine trim piece, pull the trim off the ecu, unbolt the ecu, and then unbolt the battery. Just to change a battery. I know because I just did one the other day. Whereas a car 20 years old has a battery tray and maybe a single nut to take off of the battery retainer. Why? Because it makes it convenient to drop it off at the service shop instead of doing it yourself.

Edited by JRCS Farms 11/10/2024 12:39
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MiradaAcres
Posted 11/10/2024 20:09 (#10961718 - in reply to #10961053)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



scmn		Electrical tends to get last picks for space during a design since cables often have smaller bend radius and their job is to connect everything electricall which means rest of machine/vehicle design is fixed when they route wires. It has nothing to do eith forcing you to use dealer, rather it is part of the nature of design.

ETA
As for tilting cab cost, most customers would never pay for it because labor savings would not be enough to offset option cost. Honestly if a farmers knew what a cab cost they would try buying a tractor without one.

Edited by MiradaAcres 11/10/2024 20:16
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casemagnumman
Posted 11/10/2024 12:45 (#10961068 - in reply to #10961037)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


oldbones - 11/10/2024 13:27

chinband - 11/10/2024 10:42

Well, that is quite obvious they would make things too easy. They couldn’t make enough money with the proper engineering. A lot of things could be done, but everybody’s in the business to make money off of someone else since I quit working at the dealership I see things in a lot different light.
Have a good day
Rich



Tin foil hat needed.
I call BS on your notion that manufacturers do this to make sure they have a steady stream of repair income.
It goes against ALL common sense to think they do. If they did, people wouldn't keep buying their product.
I don't care that you worked in a dealership, you are/were not on the manufacturing side of it. They design to save manufacturing costs, not ensure higher repair costs in the future.
Common sense would say that it would cost more to make a cab that easily and quickly tilts out of the way. If it were easy and cheap to design and build, someone would have come out with aftermarket conversion kits for tilting, and most guys would have one, including me. But most guys would not want to pay the higher manufacturing costs associated with making tilting cabs where you just pull a latch and tilt it up to blow out the dirt.










.



Have you ever heard of the right to repair? The manufacturer literally is making it so the owners have to take it to the dealer to fix.
Even the most simple things like changing oil or light bulbs are turning into such a headache a lot of people are hiring someone else to do it. There is no reason they are putting the drain plugs and filters in the places they are.
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mac4440
Posted 11/10/2024 13:30 (#10961146 - in reply to #10961068)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



It’s crazy the money it costs to change a headlight on some new cars. One car we had took me 30 minutes plus to change a headlight once I figured out the best way. Dealer mechanic told me their book time was 1 hour. Said some imports were 2 hours.
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illinois-kris
Posted 11/10/2024 13:24 (#10961136 - in reply to #10961037)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


IL		It's easy to design and build it that way from the factory and wouldn't cost but maybe 1% more, so $3,000 on a $300,000 tractor. We are in the age of cab suspension, it already moves. It needs a redesign to get the geometry correct but they could do it easily when introducing a new model. We did a lot of redesigns when we built the Titan series prototype at caterpillar to make things more maintenance and manufacturing friendly than the older atlas series trucks.

You make a terrible point about aftermarket conversion kits because you're trying to reconfigure the entire way the cab controls are run, it's not feasible.

You can stomp your foot and beat on your chest all you'd like but it doesn't make you correct. If making a cab tilt is so expensive and difficult please explain to us all how heavy truck manufacturers did it for decades with the cab over engine trucks and remained competitive.
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mac4440
Posted 11/10/2024 13:34 (#10961153 - in reply to #10961037)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



oldbones - 11/10/2024 12:27

chinband - 11/10/2024 10:42

Well, that is quite obvious they would make things too easy. They couldn’t make enough money with the proper engineering. A lot of things could be done, but everybody’s in the business to make money off of someone else since I quit working at the dealership I see things in a lot different light.
Have a good day
Rich



Tin foil hat needed.
I call BS on your notion that manufacturers do this to make sure they have a steady stream of repair income.
It goes against ALL common sense to think they do. If they did, people wouldn't keep buying their product.
I don't care that you worked in a dealership, you are/were not on the manufacturing side of it. They design to save manufacturing costs, not ensure higher repair costs in the future.
Common sense would say that it would cost more to make a cab that easily and quickly tilts out of the way. If it were easy and cheap to design and build, someone would have come out with aftermarket conversion kits for tilting, and most guys would have one, including me. But most guys would not want to pay the higher manufacturing costs associated with making tilting cabs where you just pull a latch and tilt it up to blow out the dirt.










.


Hard to build an affordable aftermarket solution when it isn’t designed for it. Doubt that it would ad much cost if it were made that way from the start
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Herbie56
Posted 11/10/2024 10:45 (#10960868 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Coles County, Illinois		6000 series Deere tilt to one side.
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The Pretender
Posted 11/10/2024 11:30 (#10960946 - in reply to #10960868)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


The Internet

They did, but it would be better if it was no more labourious that opening the hood, like tilting the cab on a European semi tractor, that way people would be more inclined to clean under the cab and leaks would be repaired quicker

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Indianajones
Posted 11/10/2024 11:13 (#10960912 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



Building serviceability into anything add cost which lowers profit margin. The manufacturer doesn't care if it makes it easier to work on.
INDY
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TD15
Posted 11/10/2024 11:17 (#10960918 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


On some models removing the cab is no big deal.
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School Of Hard Knock
Posted 11/10/2024 11:25 (#10960931 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


just a tish NE of central ND		Heaven, forbid that they spent a dime to make things easier for service! (sarcasm)
>>> My 6400 JD cab is made to tilt sideways. (insert eye roll here) It takes special tools to bolt on and removal of the rear right tire and rim to do so. That way for hoses and linkages and cleaning you stay right on the struggle bus with the old way of squeezing and fighting space to work and change hoses etc. anyway since none of us have that tool just laying around when we need it.

Edited by School Of Hard Knock 11/10/2024 11:26
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 11/10/2024 11:26 (#10960936 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



northeastern Ohio		Maybe a safety issue? ROPS might be harder to incorporate into a tilting cab.
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centralmnangus
Posted 11/10/2024 12:56 (#10961088 - in reply to #10960936)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Ft. Ripley MN		No not really… the large mining loaders from Volvo and Cat have the ability to tilt their cabs and need to maintain Roos protection. Not to mention Big Bud’s cabs tilt
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illinois-kris
Posted 11/10/2024 13:27 (#10961141 - in reply to #10960936)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


IL		No harder to incorporate in a tilt cab than a tractor with cab suspension.
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John Smith
Posted 11/10/2024 11:35 (#10960955 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


South Central Illinois

I remember when the JD 30 series were a new thing in the 70’s
Some were saying how expensive it was going to be to work on the transmissions.
Because the cab would have to be removed.
Apparently that did not stop people from going with cabs.

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Badger
Posted 11/10/2024 21:00 (#10961803 - in reply to #10960955)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Huntley Montana

Overhead hoist to hold the cab up, Transmission & rear end roll out 

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Clay SEIA
Posted 11/10/2024 12:01 (#10961002 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



Simply having a removable plate underneath the floor mat to improve access to some hydraulic fittings and the like would be a helluva improvement for a machine that costs six figures...

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tommyw-5088
Posted 11/10/2024 12:35 (#10961049 - in reply to #10961002)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Texas		A short hood freightliner is a miserable machine to work on . The fuel system is totally miserable and almost impossible to do .
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WCWI
Posted 11/10/2024 20:23 (#10961748 - in reply to #10961002)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Clay SEIA - 11/10/2024 12:01

Simply having a removable plate underneath the floor mat to improve access to some hydraulic fittings and the like would be a helluva improvement for a machine that costs six figures...



Story I heard when White came out with the 105's some block man out in Kansas had partied a bit too hard one night and ended up on a service call the next day in wheat field in July or August and needed to get to the top of the transmission, cut a hole in the cab floor with a torch. Next Monday dropped the piece on the engineers desk and in no uncertain terms told him the next production run would have a access panel in the floor that size. Don't know if it is true but makes a good story, as to headlights who was the genius on the Chevy Traverse that decided that one should take the wheel well apart to replace the headlight, and they always go out in the winter after a snowstorm
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johnk
Posted 11/11/2024 06:17 (#10962065 - in reply to #10961748)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


ncia		Must have been the same White engineer that put the hand primer on the opposite side as the fuel filters.
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Kooiker
Posted 11/10/2024 12:49 (#10961075 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



Well, if the execution of such an idea was no better than the hinged AC condenser, air to air cooler and oil cooler that is in front of the radiators in our New Holland tractors, it would be pointless to do so.

You see, all of that stuff is hinged, but they didn't make the hoses for any of it long enough that you can actually swing it out of the way to clean the radiator.   It could just as well all be bolted solid on four corners.


So I'd expect that if the cab tilted up to work under it, none of the electric wires would be long enough to do so anyway and they wouldn't have a plug on any wiring harness that was convenient or easy to undo either.

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blowsand
Posted 11/10/2024 15:09 (#10961262 - in reply to #10961075)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


mercer county, il		9000 series caseih 4wds did it well. At least on mine you can swing the hyd cooler, trans cooler and ac condenser out of the way by just pulling a pin.

Unfortunately with each series newer, there’s less Steiger influence, and the ease of repair and maintenance shows
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JCBFarmsND
Posted 11/10/2024 15:17 (#10961274 - in reply to #10961262)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Designation 6 versatile all you gotta do is flip two levers on either side of the cooler and it drops forward. Sure was easier to blow out the radiator vs Deere's tractors from the same era
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Waterlooiowa
Posted 11/10/2024 13:29 (#10961144 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


Don't know how things are now but 15-20 years ago on the 20 and 30 series the finished cabs came from the other side of the building and were dropped from the ceiling onto the chassis and 4 guys had it mounted in a few minutes,,no reason a hinge couldn't be used with a few wiring disconnects. There were a few trim pieces that went on later but only a few minutes work

Edited by Waterlooiowa 11/10/2024 13:30
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The Pretender
Posted 11/10/2024 16:01 (#10961330 - in reply to #10961144)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


The Internet

It only takes about 7 minutes to put the cab on a Massey in Beauvais, but everything is clean, new and nothing is siezed. To take it off, you're going to have to drain the AC and heater etc. It wouldn't take much to route the wirings and hoses so the cab could be hinged, but the way it hinges would have to be engineered, which on a modern tractor would probaly cost a fortune

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Chad H
Posted 11/10/2024 13:38 (#10961161 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


NE SD		This one should have a zipper on it.



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Steiger Man
Posted 11/10/2024 14:41 (#10961232 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: Big Buds


Sunburst Montana		The Big Buds tilting cabs is kinda funny because of all the tractors made they probably the ones that didn’t need one the most. I can stand up inside the frame underneath the cab to grease the driveline. Plus everything from the radiator to the transmission slid out the front.
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Tomcat
Posted 11/10/2024 16:03 (#10961335 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?



Ludington/Manistee MI area

Because some engineer that never operated the equipment or wrenched on it designed it.  I’ve seen countless projects at work where no consideration was taken in the operatability or ability to prep for maintenance.  Corporate will set these standards on how it must be prepped for maintenance and the engineers are oblivious 

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COUPER
Posted 11/10/2024 17:54 (#10961461 - in reply to #10961335)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


I have a Hyster 210 with a cab it tilts over to the right with a little electric motor takes about 15 seconds easy Peasy, so convenient to work on transmission, hoses ext.
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Excalibur
Posted 11/10/2024 23:32 (#10961955 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


SC WI		My MX240 was always blowing hydraulic lines under the cab, it doesn’t take much to remove two and loosen two cab mounts and tip cap some. I believe shops have a hinge system that attaches to cab mounts to tip cabs way farther.
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Bigshot
Posted 11/11/2024 00:59 (#10961976 - in reply to #10960848)
Subject: RE: Why no tilting cabs for easier maintenance?


That's a really good question. And in the same vein, why aren't all cab dash components modular, like an aircraft cockpit, so they can be easily isolated and removed for checking or repair and again, why can they not make radiators that either swing out, or pull out, so they can actually be accessed for proper cleaning?

Edited by Bigshot 11/11/2024 01:01
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