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green lightning update
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nwfarmer
Posted 6/28/2024 10:37 (#10790655)
Subject: green lightning update


iowa		Seems like much interest in home made nitrogen. As it was said, it could be a game changer for ag. Tests from private sources seem to indicate that this will work as a source of nitrogen for a few cents per gallon.
I am a distributor for the Midwest and have 15 units ordered. They should be available yet this summer. Please call or text me if you are interested in buying one for your farm. My number is 712 260 3241. Dale
.
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dgramenz
Posted 6/28/2024 12:28 (#10790791 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



SW Illinois		It might only be a few cents per gallon, but how many gallons do you need? Price per pound of N is all that matters.
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Hilltop Husker
Posted 6/28/2024 14:34 (#10790949 - in reply to #10790791)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Northern Nebraska		And the company claims you can't test for the nitrogen inside of it.
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madflower
Posted 6/28/2024 15:01 (#10790976 - in reply to #10790949)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


You probably can't. It is just an electric arc that creates a plasma to separate the n2 gas and oxygen gas. Similar to a tesla coil.

They are touting them in denmark as a way to use excess solar generation.

One companies modules are like 30k dollars and do 25-75 acres a year.

I am a little surprised I couldn't pull up a DIY version.

You can get some nitrogen from bacteria like Azospirillium, which fixes nitrogen in the soil in the plant root zone. A healthy soil may already have it as it is found worldwide, but let's be honest, most people don't have a healthy soil. So that is the part that needs to be worked on. Healthy soils, also have microbiology that combats various pests, fungus, etc. as well. It doesn't eliminate them but can significantly reduce the impact.
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Hilltop Husker
Posted 6/28/2024 15:13 (#10791001 - in reply to #10790976)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Northern Nebraska		You can test the water solution after the event for the nitrogen. No matter the form. I thinks pretty fishy.
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madflower
Posted 6/28/2024 22:41 (#10791499 - in reply to #10791001)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


It is fishy because i doubt the numbers work. You add nitrogen and oxygen and it gets split by electric, then recombines to form different things like NO, NO2 probably O3 and a few other radicals because i doubt it just splits those two. Then you have to get it to dissolve in water.

Most likely it is cheaper to fix your soil biology. Then you can get nitrogen fixing bacteria, disease resistance, drought resistance, etc. which is known to reduce costs. It doesn't eliminate issues but reduces the impact. It takes a while to rebuild the organic matter, fix compaction, restore the biology, etc.
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clicker
Posted 6/28/2024 14:22 (#10790929 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Southern IA
nwfarmer - 6/28/2024 10:37

Seems like much interest in home made nitrogen. As it was said, it could be a game changer for ag. Tests from private sources seem to indicate that this will work as a source of nitrogen for a few cents per gallon.
I am a distributor for the Midwest and have 15 units ordered. They should be available yet this summer. Please call or text me if you are interested in buying one for your farm. My number is 712 260 3241. Dale
.


how much does the unit cost and what is its production capacity?
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illinidirtfarmer
Posted 6/28/2024 15:08 (#10790996 - in reply to #10790929)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


WC IL		Seems like when I did the math a while back if you ran it 24/7 you could make enough for around 500 acres in a year. Of a product that needs to be kept above freezing, and has a use rate of around 100 gallons to the acre. Don't remember if a price for the machine was ever posted.
Neat idea, but not sure how practical it is for an operation of any size.
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ILFarm217
Posted 6/28/2024 20:05 (#10791329 - in reply to #10790996)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


I may be wrong but I believe I saw a price of $37,500 or somewhere in that ballpark
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madflower
Posted 6/28/2024 15:07 (#10790990 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


I am working on providing Azospirillium bacteria to my plants to fix nitrogen, and I am also trying to increase the soil microbiology for better growth and disease/pest resistance which also should result in a much healthier and productive soil.

While I am doing that, I would be interested in a cost analysis. Because no where I have seen anyone say, it costs less. And most of the time, they want to couple it with 'excess' solar generation, and they still aren't making claims it is cheaper. And even after I get my soil microbes balanced, I will probably still need nitrogen.

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Douglass ks
Posted 6/28/2024 15:53 (#10791050 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Douglass Kansas

NOT REALLY AN UPDATE.  HOW ABOUT SOME PICTURES OF SOME SIDE BY SIDE, CORN PLANTED WITH NO N, VS GREEN LIGHTING VS NH3. MIGHT AS WELL SHOW THE RESULTS OF SOME TISSUE SAMPLES TAKEN AS WELL.

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davro
Posted 7/3/2024 00:58 (#10796574 - in reply to #10791050)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Reardan Wa.		We are doing these tests this year, running 2 machines this year
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Hilltop Husker
Posted 7/3/2024 08:54 (#10796803 - in reply to #10796574)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Northern Nebraska		Have you tested the finished solution for nitrogen content?
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GregWCIL
Posted 6/28/2024 15:56 (#10791055 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


West Central Illinois		Wonder how many 6013 welding rods that arc goes thru a year?
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nwfarmer
Posted 6/28/2024 18:05 (#10791212 - in reply to #10791055)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


iowa		A unit sells for $38500. It will produce 65000 gallons a year. One gallon has 1 pound and cost 1 cent per gallon to produce. I will get the yield trial that was privately done and submit it.
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WildBuckwheat
Posted 6/28/2024 18:08 (#10791217 - in reply to #10791212)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Middlesex County, Ontario
nwfarmer - 6/28/2024 19:05

A unit sells for $38500. It will produce 65000 gallons a year. One gallon has 1 pound and cost 1 cent per gallon to produce. I will get the yield trial that was privately done and submit it.


Why isn't this technology used on a commercial scale?
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Slugbait
Posted 6/28/2024 22:06 (#10791474 - in reply to #10791217)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Pedee, Oregon		It is an incredibly inefficient way to make nitrogen “water”.
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4genfarmer
Posted 6/28/2024 23:15 (#10791518 - in reply to #10791474)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


NEBRASKA		.
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Douglass ks
Posted 6/30/2024 19:08 (#10793733 - in reply to #10791212)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Douglass Kansas

At that price per gallon you could afford to give away a 1000 gallons of it to every farmer willing to try it. You should be setting up dealers in every county to do this. Would get lots of farmer to try it and if it works, would get lots of sales for the unit to make it.

After some more thought, it would be more convincing if you dropped off a unit to let the farmer try it for a day or two. Since the water that you could give us to try might not be what is produced from your unit.



Edited by Douglass ks 7/1/2024 08:02
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Birddy
Posted 7/1/2024 21:36 (#10795275 - in reply to #10791212)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


ND

nwfarmer - 6/28/2024 18:05 A unit sells for $38500. It will produce 65000 gallons a year. One gallon has 1 pound and cost 1 cent per gallon to produce. I will get the yield trial that was privately done and submit it.


Snake oil salesman, BS all the way...............how do these guys get on here...................

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nwfarmer
Posted 6/28/2024 18:07 (#10791215 - in reply to #10791055)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


iowa		A unit sells for $38500. It will produce 65000 gallons a year. One gallon has 1 pound and cost 1 cent per gallon to produce. I will get the yield trial that was privately done and submit it.
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Triticum Agricolam
Posted 6/28/2024 20:42 (#10791370 - in reply to #10791215)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Eastern Washington State		How many watts of power does this machine use? Does it just plug into a 115 volt outlet or does it need something bigger? What electricity price are you using to come up with your cost of 1 cent per pound of N?
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Hick
Posted 6/29/2024 00:26 (#10791550 - in reply to #10791370)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Sw mn		So I could put down 140# of n for $1.40 after the initial investment? If it sounds to good to be true….
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Slugbait
Posted 6/29/2024 08:06 (#10791739 - in reply to #10791215)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Pedee, Oregon		I would like to see verified testing that shows the 1lb/gallon. If you dig around enough, there's some reports that say this machine makes a 1% solution of N.
That is half a pound per gallon.
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Triticum Agricolam
Posted 6/29/2024 09:35 (#10791846 - in reply to #10791739)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Eastern Washington State		A 1% solution isn't even a half pound per gallon. Its a little less than 1.5 ounces per gallon.
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Slugbait
Posted 6/29/2024 12:59 (#10792084 - in reply to #10791846)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Pedee, Oregon		You’re right. Never post before coffee.
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crowbar
Posted 6/30/2024 17:01 (#10793552 - in reply to #10791215)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Hazelton, Kansas		Dale,

Back in the 1970’s, UNL had an energy farm at Mead, Ne. They irrigated with an array of solar cells, and had a unit that fixed atmospheric N with an arc, for using off-season power. IIRC, the arc formed NOx, which they scrubbed out with a calcium carbonate bath. I believe they ended up with a calcium nitrate solution, but it was ~45 years ago.

I saw it operate, and it made an impressive “waaaa” electrical arc sound. I don’t remember the numbers, but I’m certain reports were written on the system. I believe UNL Agricultural Engineering headed the project, maybe with Lincoln Labs involvement.

FWIW.

MDS

https://elibrary.asabe.org/abstract.asp?aid=33736
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1979iece.conf..219B/abstract


Edited by crowbar 6/30/2024 21:03
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Farmjunkie
Posted 6/29/2024 10:02 (#10791875 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Manitoba		This machine would work good if u irrigated with this water but trying to spray it on with your regular sprayer would need a helluva look of passes. Have a guy doing it by us and crops look ok but proof will be this fall when it’s in the bin
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timis
Posted 6/29/2024 10:31 (#10791905 - in reply to #10791875)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Iowa		That’s exactly what I was thinking- if you had to apply that qty you almost need irrigation to made the best use of it- and a big tank.
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thinkstoomuch
Posted 6/29/2024 10:41 (#10791913 - in reply to #10791905)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Kettle Moraine, WI		Dairy manure haulers with semis and frac tanks might be a component of a system. Big tanks travelling down rows is compacting.

So is it a 1% solution of nitrogen or 1/2lb per gallon? A half mile field with 16 rows down and back would be 1 mile length or just under 5 acres. 100 lbs per acre at 1% solution would be 10,000 lbs or 1234 gallons at 8.1 lbs per gallon so 5000 gallons down half mile and back on 40 feet application width. Doable, but not current system. If it were a half pound N per gallon, 100 lbs N per acre would be 200 gallons or 1000 gallons for the same pass.
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barsfarm
Posted 6/29/2024 11:26 (#10791973 - in reply to #10791875)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Minnesota		Or you just use it 15-20gpa with your herbicide passes as a supplemental sidedress. I think that’s how I’d use it. No extra passes just replace water carrier.
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GregWCIL
Posted 6/29/2024 20:28 (#10792513 - in reply to #10791973)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


West Central Illinois		20 gal would be 1.7 lb. Kind of worthless
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GregWCIL
Posted 6/29/2024 20:48 (#10792534 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


West Central Illinois		So what percent nitrogen does it produce? I looked on their website and they don’t say. Says 100 gallons will be enough per acre. No analysis, no facts, no independent testing.
What’s the big secret? I’ll tell you what it is: bull****. Snake oil salesmen always come out of the woodwork during tough times. Saw similar bs 50 years ago.
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sand85
Posted 6/30/2024 17:14 (#10793569 - in reply to #10792534)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


C IL

Well, it takes 70 gal of UAN per acre.

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GregWCIL
Posted 6/30/2024 21:27 (#10793949 - in reply to #10793569)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


West Central Illinois		70 gallons of 28% is 167 units N. 32% would be 190 actual N.
How many gallons of lightning to get that? Point out on their website where it says the analysis. They do point out you have to heat the tanks in the winter so it won’t freeze. They also recommend not using white plastic tanks to avoid algae growth. Ever seen algae grow in 28?
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sand85
Posted 7/1/2024 06:11 (#10794145 - in reply to #10793949)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


C IL

You can find YouTube videos of college chemistry students making nitric acid with this general process with a battery and exposed wires in a water bottle.  The underlying idea of making N solution by shooting an electrical arc through the air is over 100 years old.


If you are convinced it won’t work I am not offended.

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Douglass ks
Posted 7/1/2024 07:58 (#10794272 - in reply to #10793949)
Subject: RE: green lightning update



Douglass Kansas

I think a big part of the lie is that it says on their website that you can reduce nitrogen rates by 50 to 90 percent when using there product, because of increased efficiency. Says 100 gallon will be enough, which if it is a 1% N would be about 8.34 pounds which is a little less than 10% of what I apply on my poorer ground. 

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Hilltop Husker
Posted 7/1/2024 08:43 (#10794327 - in reply to #10794272)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


Northern Nebraska		Most Farms could probably reduce their nitrogen by 25% by reducing it that much and then reallocating the timing of the rest.

I highly doubt theirs can make up the extra 25% need though to get the 50%.
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kurtgrimm
Posted 7/1/2024 18:25 (#10794985 - in reply to #10790655)
Subject: RE: green lightning update


We've been running a unit for the last three months and want to put some caution out around this machine. First, water quaility going into the units is extremely important. Our first unit started on fire as we where using softened water. Turns out the sodium from the softened water has too high of an electrical conductivity and it eventually shorted out. We now us RO water with a remineralizer and it is working better. The company is standing behind any warranty issues related to things like this. they replaced our machine within a couple of weeks.

We are seeing mixed results on our initial observations in the field. In many cases it does not visually look at good as conventional nitrogen. We had one wheat test that was made before we treated our water and it had a 27% yield drag on poor soil and 8% yield drag on good soil. Yield range was 95 to 132. The green lightning was foliar applied as the spring sidedress.

I want it to work, but there are many unknowns about the machines and how they work at this point. Only jump in if you are willing to be part of an experiment is my advice right now! My email is in my profile.
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