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soybean pre emerge damage
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vesk32
Posted 6/27/2024 07:39 (#10789042)
Subject: soybean pre emerge damage


Soybean pre we used compensa (authority assist) at 6oz rate. Have soil Ph 7.5-7.8. Our soybeans seem to be stunted and yellowing. On no-till ground seems to be worse. The fall minimum till, they seem to be growing, just not bushing out. They look as though they have iron chlorosis. Some areas of the field look fine and others look like death. Soil type is very noticeable in areas. Compaction (sprayer and seeder tracks) areas are greener and in better shape. Root hairs are bright white, and nodules are present. Foxtail is still struggling to get out of the ground with the pursuit. They are short, burnt tips, weak rooted.
The reason I know it is a herbicide application is because where we sprayed antares prime and sulfentrazone on some and no damage is detected.
My main question is, is this a pursuit issue. Can pursuit antagonize iron chlorosis? Or suppress the root zone so much that it doesn't allow soybean to put enough acid in the ground. Could it be the generic herbicide problem. Know a guy that sprayed Willowood vs this Sharda product with no problems same time. So far I haven't got any answers from anyone at the university agronomist.

Will they grow out of this? Should a foliar application be applied?



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ehoff
Posted 6/27/2024 07:54 (#10789064 - in reply to #10789042)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


Central Missouri
Variety sensitivity has a lot to do with it both on sulfentrazone and pursuit along with ph and weather.
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Catgrader140m
Posted 6/27/2024 08:35 (#10789134 - in reply to #10789064)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


East central iowa
Ehoff, what’s your opinion on how much say fierce xlt with ding yield? I have been using for years but this year got a rain at wrong time and really set them back. They are coming out of it fine now. Just curious
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noluckatall
Posted 6/27/2024 12:28 (#10789396 - in reply to #10789134)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


NEMO
I was told by a Merschman seed rep that any chemical with classic upfront preemerge will ding beans unless the weather is perfect. If it doesn't hurt your stand count, I think the chemical setting the beans back can female dog slap the beans causing them to have slower growth and closer nodes which has for me led to some very nice yields. If it is wet and cold is when the classic can cause severe stand loss and I have been down that road with having to replant.
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noluckatall
Posted 6/27/2024 12:35 (#10789411 - in reply to #10789134)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


NEMO
Double tap.

Edited by noluckatall 6/27/2024 12:37
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ehoff
Posted 6/27/2024 17:22 (#10789649 - in reply to #10789134)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


Central Missouri
If you look through the old Becks pfr books you can find the info. Fierce xlt is the harshest of them all. In severe damage it can be upwards of 10 bu.
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TADER
Posted 6/27/2024 19:01 (#10789753 - in reply to #10789649)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


Illinois
Oh lord ..... don't mention BECKS the jackoffs will be on you...
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FarmingMo
Posted 6/27/2024 19:55 (#10789809 - in reply to #10789753)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


NeMO
Becks and jackoffs do go hand in hand
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dvswia
Posted 6/28/2024 06:17 (#10790249 - in reply to #10789649)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


sw corner ia.
I didn't know pursuit pre could damage beans like that..

that said I think I have the same thing and pursuit was in the mix.. maybe that should go.
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mcfarm
Posted 6/28/2024 09:06 (#10790515 - in reply to #10790249)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


central Indiana
were those beans planted when it was probably to wet to be out there?
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dvswia
Posted 6/29/2024 20:10 (#10792487 - in reply to #10790515)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


sw corner ia.
no. soil was about perfect. 80 ish temps.

had a cold shot of rain right after planting, crusted pretty hard. two weeks later had another rain that brought most up, but sure isn't a great stand.

before that saving rain I was lining up seed to replant whole shebang. not sure but maybe that would have been best.. never know till way too late.
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Deltamudd
Posted 6/28/2024 09:17 (#10790540 - in reply to #10789042)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


I think residual chemicals don’t get enough attention on the damage they actually are doing
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Moose333
Posted 6/28/2024 10:11 (#10790622 - in reply to #10790540)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


NW Wisconsin
What about the research that doesnt get done when applying liberty roundup enlist and enginia on past flowering beans that gets done all the time????
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earp
Posted 6/28/2024 13:25 (#10790856 - in reply to #10789042)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage



Manila, Ar
common to see pre's stunt crops early........usually grow out of it with normal yields........yours look normal, to me
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madflower
Posted 6/28/2024 17:22 (#10791158 - in reply to #10789042)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


vesk32 - 6/27/2024 07:39
Compaction (sprayer and seeder tracks) areas are greener and in better shape. Root hairs are bright white, and nodules are present.




Did you apply fungicides last fall or last year? There is a possibility you may have dinged the population of mycoparasites that attack pythium or the trichoderma population.

Root hairs being white, means the roots are good and usually well aerated. Very fine white strands can be mycorrhizal fungus that have attached to the roots.

Pythium fungus or another pathogen like bacteria or mold, can cause roots to turn brown.

some inert ingredients can have an effect, but it is usually not the case, and usually not directly. Like it may affect pH, or deter beneficial organisms, or boost populations of detrimental organisms. In this case, they may be adding soluable iron to the name brand stuff because they are aware of the chlorosis. You may need to add it to the generic.

However, your results are possibly, the compaction prevented either the chemical or water from rains to penetrate into that area as well. You may have a compaction layer underneath or the excess water caused a microbial imbalance. compaction may have created more anaerobic conditions that decreased the pH with say plant matter breakdown, and possibly those bacteria retarded pythium.

The mechanism for iron and chlorosis isn't super well understood but it is more likely to happen in higher pH soils, and I am sure you know this, and possibly everything else I just said. It might be a while before you hear back from the university.

If you have deeper compaction, I would try to address that with a deep taproot cover crop. I also personally would look at applying microbes via a compost wash/tea the aerobic ones might be out of whack. It may recover naturally.








Edited by madflower 6/28/2024 21:54
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madflower
Posted 6/28/2024 20:36 (#10791361 - in reply to #10791158)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


This is actually interesting.
"The most difficult soils for wild Trichoderma are those that are extremely well drained. They are presumably more difficult for strain T-22 as well, but even on these, the populations were high enough to be effective. An analysis of soil characteristics that are associated with good colonization showed that roots growing in soils high in calcium are better colonized"

I doubt you are too well drained unless you are on sand but that would explain the better results with compaction. Which may also indicate not enough seed-soil contact or pressure from the closers.

It is an interesting article although kind of old from 1999.

https://ipm.cahnr.uconn.edu/trichoderma-for-control-of-soil-pathogen...

Edited by madflower 6/28/2024 21:38
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vesk32
Posted 6/30/2024 07:37 (#10792899 - in reply to #10791361)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


no fungicide was applied last yr. It isn't a chemical issue from yrs prior. We are in the process of tissue and herbicide samples. Learning what happened and how is my main objective. On a 350 ac field we sprayed on tank load of antares prime and rest with compensa and it is right to the mark. Have 2 fields that boarder one another, one with straight sulfetrizone vs compensa, night and day difference. If we had heavy residue with stocks and trash, they did struggle more. We came to the assumption that soil was colder, seeds pry didn't take off as well and were more susceptible once stressed. Definitely took some population in those areas. Then you ask yourself, drilled vs planted soybeans. Well, we do both. Planted do seem as though they handled it somewhat better, but not by a lot. Most planted are on winter wheat stubble compared to drilled being on corn stalks. We do have a better plant stand on w/w stubble, which is expected with a planter. As of now, we determined there is nothing we can do except hope for sunlight. They look 2x better this week, but 5x behind other beans now. We know they will be short, major yield loss is expected.
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madflower
Posted 6/30/2024 23:05 (#10794057 - in reply to #10792899)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


I asked about the fungicide, because of the trichoderma, but also I'm not seeing very fine root hairs on either sample from mycorrhizal fungus. Which also potentially means other 'help' isn't in the soil.

Warmer soil would certainly help and residue can affect soil soil temps. Leaving residue on the field is good for soil health, but it also needs the microbes. Usually fields are compacted, which means oxygen can't get to the lower layers preventing the growth of the aerobic microbes. Bacillus velezensis is another one that can add 10% germination. it and the trichoderma are aerobic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8838022/

Im not saying you are wrong about soil temps. Just that you may need to add or replace microbes are either no longer there or not in high enough numbers. It takes a few years to get soil health back .

The cheapest way is to add them is to do a compost wash, where you literally wash them out of good aerobic compost then spray them on the field. And they are alive. They can't handle much sun exposure.
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vesk32
Posted 7/1/2024 07:17 (#10794213 - in reply to #10794057)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


Most recent crop scouting 6-30



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RC,SD
Posted 6/29/2024 09:16 (#10791824 - in reply to #10789042)
Subject: RE: soybean pre emerge damage


Residual corn herbicide injury from the previous corn crop?
Did you have much moisture/snow last winter.
It's amazing to see the difference in soybean plant growth on areas where the corn stalks either blew away or maybe nothing was planted last year.
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