AgTalk Home
AgTalk Home
Search Forums | Classifieds | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Simple math doesn't look good.
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forums List -> Market TalkMessage format
 
coup
Posted 12/29/2023 17:09 (#10547766)
Subject: Simple math doesn't look good.


USA
With corn about about $2 bu less than year ago x 1000 acres x 200 bu = $400,000 less revenue for each 1000 acres of corn.

Way things currently look 2024 corn crop will be $2 bu less than 2022 crop also.


3000 acres corn @ $1.2 million x 2 years = $2.4 million less revenue.

Going to require major fat trimming to balance things out.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
RealFarmer
Posted 12/29/2023 17:14 (#10547776 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Spot on.....Sure looks like rents need to drop as well as inputs even more. Dad always said the rents never come down.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikado
Posted 12/30/2023 13:19 (#10548942 - in reply to #10547776)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


SW WI
RealFarmer - 12/29/2023 17:14

Spot on.....Sure looks like rents need to drop as well as inputs even more. Dad always said the rents never come down.




Your dad is right.

Best you can hope for is steady, for multiple years.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
muddycreek
Posted 12/29/2023 17:22 (#10547788 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Anyone planning on 6 dollar corns a fool. 5 is still a very high historic price. Market don’t give a damn what input prices or interest rates are.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barren
Posted 12/29/2023 21:26 (#10548164 - in reply to #10547788)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Glasgow, Ky
Well put.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 12/29/2023 17:22 (#10547789 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: Some of us work on the...............


NEMO

'fat trimmin' program all the time. Some are gonna be forced to it and some are gonna, well you know.......................

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clay SEIA
Posted 12/29/2023 23:05 (#10548278 - in reply to #10547789)
Subject: RE: Some of us work on the...............



thekcirp - 12/29/2023 17:22

'fat trimmin' program all the time. Some are gonna be forced to it and some are gonna, well you know.......................



"NEMO" to the left of your post says a lot about that.   Some of us never got the gravy train of awesome crop yields in most of the growing seasons that have had high prices...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Redrunner02
Posted 12/30/2023 00:15 (#10548305 - in reply to #10548278)
Subject: RE: Some of us work on the...............


Boy, you got that right. I'm on year 4 of crop insurance proceeds. Three years in a row of MAJOR insurance proceeds. These were years I should have been able to build lots of capitol. Oh well.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
IALTO
Posted 12/30/2023 11:09 (#10548774 - in reply to #10548305)
Subject: RE: Some of us work on the...............


WC MN
We have had 3 below average crops in a row by a significant amount. Figure mother nature left well into 7 figures on the table for us. Can't do anything about it though.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dt4020
Posted 12/30/2023 18:46 (#10549309 - in reply to #10548774)
Subject: Lunatics on the fringe


Fairbury, NE (Southeast)
If only you farmed a fickle ways away you would have whole quarters of corn with near 300 bu, potential.

The fringe can be unforgiving, but thankfully inputs are cheaper (***) and landlords only remember the outlier big yields not the average, ha!

I remember very clearly a span of at least two years with significant hail damage over a large swath of acres. Couple that with a marginal hail insurance program at the time and standard 2.30 corn it was a major wheel spinning era.

Then a few years later in 2000, 2002, and 2003 had around 60% aph average with drought. Joy, but at least we don't have any 6 figure dryland yet.....

Edited by dt4020 12/30/2023 18:48
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cat33
Posted 12/29/2023 17:39 (#10547818 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


NE SD
Some must be figuring it out. I ran into to a salesman that I know today and I asked if he was raking in the big bucks from year end purchases. He said they thought it would be busy considering what people could have sold for, and a great harvest locally, but the last two months have basically been as slow as he can remember.

Maybe people have wisened up, or maybe they didn’t take good profit when they had it and are riding it all the way down now.

Anecdotal “here” story, but I have no reason to doubt him.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
IALTO
Posted 12/29/2023 17:46 (#10547823 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


WC MN
I bet most farms will get through it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mid mn
Posted 12/29/2023 18:03 (#10547852 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Been raising corn we could have sold for $6.00 and fed it to dairy cows. Ended up with $3.00 and a pile of $hit. 2024 can't be much worst.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FarmerFrank
Posted 12/29/2023 18:11 (#10547861 - in reply to #10547852)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


NE Iowa
^^^^
That’s pretty simple math! ;-)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Hick
Posted 12/29/2023 18:17 (#10547872 - in reply to #10547852)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Sw mn
Who would have thought corn wouldn’t be worth $7 forever?

Personally I hope rent stays high while the other inputs come down, land is the one input farmers own.

Best way to trim fat is don’t get fat in the first place.

Most farmers will be fine, mother Deere might feel the pinch but I bet they make it up in parts prices.

As a farmer and an end user I see corn fairly priced where we currently sit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barren
Posted 12/29/2023 21:41 (#10548182 - in reply to #10547872)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Glasgow, Ky
"Best way to trim fat is don’t get fat in the first place."

Keeping up with the Jones's can be fattening.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
standahl
Posted 12/29/2023 18:24 (#10547883 - in reply to #10547852)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


I bought a lot of $6 corn and fed it to dairy cows. I got turds and a big bill.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Deere6
Posted 12/29/2023 18:14 (#10547866 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


SE IL
I still see opportunity though, as Dec24 corn is still over $5. With cheaper inputs and a decent crop that should still turn a pretty decent profit……IF some of that margin is locked in now. Waiting until next summer holding 23 and not having any protection on 24 looks to be the definition of swinging for the fence, and there have already been a couple home run balls hit in the last couple years (21,22).
Top of the page Bottom of the page
AGDEAL
Posted 12/29/2023 18:21 (#10547878 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Illinois
Unless you were still in $4 corn mindset when it was $6.


$6 corn was a good time to pay down/off debt and get some good breathing room
Top of the page Bottom of the page
WTF2014
Posted 12/29/2023 22:56 (#10548267 - in reply to #10547878)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


CIL
AGDEAL - 12/29/2023 18:21

Unless you were still in $4 corn mindset when it was $6.


$6 corn was a good time to pay down/off debt and get some good breathing room


+1. Ready for $3 corn.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clay SEIA
Posted 12/29/2023 23:02 (#10548274 - in reply to #10547878)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.



AGDEAL - 12/29/2023 18:21 Unless you were still in $4 corn mindset when it was $6. $6 corn was a good time to pay down/off debt and get some good breathing room


It certainly wasn't the time to be incurring payments that you may have to make with $4 corn.  I don't have the T-shirt for that, but I have lived it and should get one printed.

I do wish I'd been able to swing a couple more purchases at Wuhan Flu  2020 prices and 3% interest rates, though. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
swne
Posted 12/29/2023 19:15 (#10547965 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Cambridge, southwestern Nebraska
I started seeing this scenario coming last summer. Pretty hard to make up the revenue loss from $8 corn down to $5. Then we experienced wheat going from $8 at the beginning of harvest to $5 by September. Another beating.
Our yields were better this year but basically at insurance guarantees. That’s a worse place to be than last year when we collected insurance and didn’t have to run the combine.
I’m hoping we get more rain and return to better crops then see what happens. We were not able to take very good advantage of this price cycle this time around. Oh so close.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JonSCKs
Posted 12/29/2023 23:42 (#10548295 - in reply to #10547965)
Subject: Perma croppers.


swne - 12/29/2023 19:15

I started seeing this scenario coming last summer. Pretty hard to make up the revenue loss from $8 corn down to $5. Then we experienced wheat going from $8 at the beginning of harvest to $5 by September. Another beating.
Our yields were better this year but basically at insurance guarantees. That’s a worse place to be than last year when we collected insurance and didn’t have to run the combine.
I’m hoping we get more rain and return to better crops then see what happens. We were not able to take very good advantage of this price cycle this time around. Oh so close.


High prices.. must be nice to be able to count on growing a crop every year.  18” of precip in 2022 cut the fun off early.. delivering on the 25% locked in prices.. didn’t leave as much to reward the good basis bids last fall.. but we got to pay the inflated input costs regardless.

$7 corn was a result of bushels assumed to be trendline yields coming up short.. How do you utilize the higher prices on bushels you didn’t raise?  Insurance doesn’t make a person whole.

A lot of posters.. perma croppers don’t experience the vagaries of the yield variability we face out here.

Must be nice. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
piperfarmer
Posted 12/30/2023 10:02 (#10548654 - in reply to #10548295)
Subject: what he said


southeast nebraska
have seen way to many years of sub 100 bushel an acre corn
Top of the page Bottom of the page
wiley159
Posted 12/30/2023 10:32 (#10548718 - in reply to #10548654)
Subject: RE: what he said


Curious how low does price have to go for you to stop raising corn with those yields ?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NE Ridger
Posted 12/30/2023 10:53 (#10548750 - in reply to #10548718)
Subject: RE: what he said


EC Nebraska
wiley159 - 12/30/2023 10:32

Curious how low does price have to go for you to stop raising corn with those yields ?


Mostly depends on land costs. If 90 bpa ground costs less than $125/acre, then corn production continues as long as current government programs continue.

Land costs will adjust to match gross revenue. It’s been a while since we’ve had really low revenue, so we’ve kinda forgotten how it works. But if corn stays below $3.50 for a couple years, then land costs will adjust accordingly.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Someday
Posted 12/29/2023 20:16 (#10548042 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Just realized that now?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
clicker
Posted 12/29/2023 20:28 (#10548058 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Southern IA
coup - 12/29/2023 17:09

With corn about about $2 bu less than year ago x 1000 acres x 200 bu = $400,000 less revenue for each 1000 acres of corn.

Way things currently look 2024 corn crop will be $2 bu less than 2022 crop also.


3000 acres corn @ $1.2 million x 2 years = $2.4 million less revenue.

Going to require major fat trimming to balance things out.


what about those of us who have been anorexic all along.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
assault
Posted 12/29/2023 20:37 (#10548073 - in reply to #10548058)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Iowa
Some.of.us forward contract.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spanman
Posted 12/29/2023 20:53 (#10548106 - in reply to #10548073)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Ding ding ding assault for the win……. 9 years out of 10 it wins (and has won) comfortably.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ecmofarm
Posted 12/29/2023 21:46 (#10548193 - in reply to #10548106)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


EC Mo
Guarantee you are wrong on that.Just as wrong as all the doom and gloomers on here predicting the 80's farm crisis again and also the huge stock market crash.Been reading agtalk many years and don't ever remember a year that we weren't headed for 2 dollar corn and a stock market crash and we were all idiots if we didn't sell all our grain before we even planted it and we should take all our money out of the stock market because a huge crash is just about to happen . I have come to the conclusion that although there are a few on here trying to honestly help other farmers by far the majority on here are extremely self centered and should not be trusted for advice. I would advise any young farmer reading agtalk to please not listen to a lot the nonsense posted on here and instead seek advice from an older successful farmer in your own neighborhood that would like to see you succeed.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
bkadds
Posted 12/29/2023 22:22 (#10548244 - in reply to #10548193)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Dalhart, Texas
Well said!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
w1891
Posted 12/29/2023 22:26 (#10548248 - in reply to #10548193)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


S Illinois
No he is not. You just don’t want to actually study price history.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BrianFerentz
Posted 12/30/2023 04:33 (#10548335 - in reply to #10548193)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


ecmofarm - 12/29/2023 21:46

Guarantee you are wrong on that.Just as wrong as all the doom and gloomers on here predicting the 80's farm crisis again and also the huge stock market crash.Been reading agtalk many years and don't ever remember a year that we weren't headed for 2 dollar corn and a stock market crash and we were all idiots if we didn't sell all our grain before we even planted it and we should take all our money out of the stock market because a huge crash is just about to happen . I have come to the conclusion that although there are a few on here trying to honestly help other farmers by far the majority on here are extremely self centered and should not be trusted for advice. I would advise any young farmer reading agtalk to please not listen to a lot the nonsense posted on here and instead seek advice from an older successful farmer in your own neighborhood that would like to see you succeed.


Good post.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
clicker
Posted 12/29/2023 21:59 (#10548211 - in reply to #10548106)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Southern IA
Spanman - 12/29/2023 20:53

Ding ding ding assault for the win……. 9 years out of 10 it wins (and has won) comfortably.


yes everyone has their grain forward contracted in years like this and everyone has their grain in the bin from the last three years whenever corn rallies to $8. Anyone checked in with Susie Martin to see if her predictions are still on the table, that may just save us all from the wrath of the 80's.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
assault
Posted 12/30/2023 10:22 (#10548698 - in reply to #10548211)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Iowa
I generally have enough sold to cover inputs and so forth, year in and year out. Is it always above cash, absolutely not. But on average I think it has worked out pretty good. I'm fine hitting singles and doubles most years.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Newguy
Posted 12/30/2023 12:12 (#10548861 - in reply to #10548106)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Renville Minnesota
Spanman - 12/29/2023 20:53

Ding ding ding assault for the win……. 9 years out of 10 it wins (and has won) comfortably.



I always forward price a percentage.

This year was the win. The last two, inflation wrecked the pattern.


I gave up swinging for the fences many years ago. My banker and accountant are much happier.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 12/29/2023 22:58 (#10548270 - in reply to #10548073)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


USA
assault - 12/29/2023 19:37

Some.of.us forward contract.



According to CGB folks their current guess is 30-35% of corn is priced vs 50-55% normally @ this time of the year. When some folks from Bunge were here on a farm visit third week of Sep their guess was 10 percent of corn was priced. If these numbers are close to reality there isn't much 2023 corn that got priced much over $5.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JonSCKs
Posted 12/29/2023 23:53 (#10548301 - in reply to #10548270)
Subject: Mathematically impossible.


coup - 12/29/2023 22:58

assault - 12/29/2023 19:37

Some.of.us forward contract.



According to CGB folks their current guess is 30-35% of corn is priced vs 50-55% normally @ this time of the year. When some folks from Bunge were here on a farm visit third week of Sep their guess was 10 percent of corn was priced. If these numbers are close to reality there isn't much 2023 corn that got priced much over $5.


mathmatically impossible.

Crop year began Sept 1st.. 35% of the front loaded demand has already occurred.. plus it takes 10% in inventory.. shuttles.. barges.. terminals to load them.. just to keep things flowing.. the Dairies in California and Arizona.. the exporters at the gulf.

personally.. on this farm.. we’ve already moved.. 75% of our 2023 corn crop.. 90% of that has already been fed.. or.. processed into ethanol.  Here.

The plan.. is to supplement the rest with shuttles.. some of which must already be on the way.. we’re adding a 19,000 head dairy and an 85 million gallon ethanol plant back online..  talking to our coop grain merchandiser yesterday.. the elevators are.. “maybe half full” here.

I realize y’all got winter and mostly ship in the spring.. but we’re still playing catch-up with last years short crop here. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 12/30/2023 06:43 (#10548383 - in reply to #10548301)
Subject: IDK if it's mathamatically impossible or not JonSCK..........


NEMO

coup's post claimed third week of september. So the Bunge guys were going off info back to the 1st-2nd week sept.? Maybe end of aug.? Harvest hadnt really
even started for a huge area of the corn belt by then. Big % sold right out of field. Along the river it has become common to deliver to terminal on delay price 
contracts. Grain is gone, but not priced. I would not be a bit surprised at that comment for the 3rd week in sept, for this year and prices. JMO  

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Deere6
Posted 12/30/2023 06:51 (#10548390 - in reply to #10548383)
Subject: We carried over a little over 10% iirc


SE IL
So that first 10% used would have been left from the 22 crop but used in the 23 demand year.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
w1891
Posted 12/30/2023 08:45 (#10548519 - in reply to #10548390)
Subject: RE: We carried over a little over 10% iirc


S Illinois
Breaking it down further, the US had 16.6 billion bu(production plus carryover) available for use in the 23-24 usage year. Past few years 1st quarter demand has been between 4.3 and 4.7 billion. With ok but not great export inspections 4.5 billion in usage as of Dec 1 is likely. Dec usage will be in that 1.3 ish range. So roughly 5.8 billion of the 16.6 total bushels available have been used/consumed/disappeared. That leaves around 10.8 billion of a 15.2 billion crop. The rub will be how much is on basis contracts, DP, how much do the commercials already own, and like was mentioned bushels in transit. 30% priced is too low but 40% priced with 60% unpriced are definitely plausible numbers.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JonSCKs
Posted 12/30/2023 10:09 (#10548666 - in reply to #10548519)
Subject: 2nd highest weekly ethanol grind ever last week.



I realize I’m out here where demand is greater than production.. usually we haul to feedlots out west.. This year we’re basically staying local.. going into a 45 k lot.  Taking 20 trucks a day to keep grinding 14.. there are..??  100+ more just like this one (collectively some more smaller lots.. a couple double or more) plus the ethanol plant across the road grinding 55 loads per day.

Usually the elevators just finished harvest.. are 96% full with ground piles.  This year.. we had 60% of a normal wheat crop.. with less than 30% not far away.. within our coop..  the coop just added bins to a site.. and probably filled 75% of existing..brand new bins.. storing air.

Half the elevators are empty..  even last year they were probably fuller than now.. as it took everything to get through.. including bringing into this state an estimated 500+ shuttles..  this year.. we will be down a little..and the feedlots will be backing off as stockers are very tight.. still.. we’re expecting an 85 myn ethanol plant to come back online here in a few..  currently ethanol (during the off-season) is break even.. however ramping up by May.. They’ve had the best year in over a decade with last weeks grind being the 2nd highest ever.  1.108 myn bbls.

we’ve got 18” we can probe in the soil.. more than this time last year when we only had 18” of precip total.. 69% of normal.. the wheat crop can last another 2 months.. but there is No deep subsoil.. which will continue to pull the excess out of our limited root zone.

Things are better.. but not by much.

According to cycles.. 2024 is supposed to be the wet interlude sandwiched by droughts.. just like the 1930s.. bad 1932- 1934, wetter 1935.. the mother of all bad in 1936.  89 years cycle.. 2024 should be okay.. but 2025..??

This story is from 2020..

Dust Bowl coming in 2025? Climatologist sees trends with 1930s

February 4th, 2020

https://www.agriculture.com/weather/news/dust-bowl-coming-in-2025-climatologist-sees-trends-with-1930s

A rise in temperature could shift into the Midwest within the next five years, says Elwynn Taylor, Iowa State University climatologist emeritus.



Edited by JonSCKs 12/30/2023 10:10




(Screenshot_20231230_101444_OneDrive (full).jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Screenshot_20231230_101444_OneDrive (full).jpg (424KB - 60 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
w1891
Posted 12/30/2023 12:47 (#10548910 - in reply to #10548666)
Subject: RE: 2nd highest weekly ethanol grind ever last week.


S Illinois
Good thing there are 2 states relatively close that have 5 and 4 times as much on farm storage as KS does and know how to handle and store 2+ billion bushels of corn every year.

Edit: If you get a chance you should tour ADM Decatur or Cedar Rapids where 600+ trucks worth gets ground daily. Or what was the Anderson’s elevator(not sure who actually owns them now)west of Champaign. Even the barge facilities across the river from St.Louis can be impressive when they have barges to load.

Edited by w1891 12/30/2023 13:29
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JonSCKs
Posted 12/30/2023 14:23 (#10549017 - in reply to #10548910)
Subject: Agreed. “Cool Drought.” Ks is becoming the Tx panhandle.


w1891 - 12/30/2023 12:47

Good thing there are 2 states relatively close that have 5 and 4 times as much on farm storage as KS does and know how to handle and store 2+ billion bushels of corn every year.

Edit: If you get a chance you should tour ADM Decatur or Cedar Rapids where 600+ trucks worth gets ground daily. Or what was the Anderson’s elevator(not sure who actually owns them now)west of Champaign. Even the barge facilities across the river from St.Louis can be impressive when they have barges to load.


I basically agree.

Brad Ripey on US Farm report.. “year in review.”  Called the Cornbelt drought a “cool drought” therefore, although rainfall was low.. Evapotranspiration was also.. lower than it could have been.. and banked subsoil carried “most” through.

I agree that there are areas.. of plentiful crops amidst abundant storage.. “prices have to come down..  and there are (like here) areas of depleted stocks.. suffering to rebuild and dependent upon imported corn..(why are prices going down?)

8 blind men touching an elephant.. the tusk, the trunk, the tail.. the foot.. the belly.. same animal.. different experiences.

I may revisit Elwynn Taylor’s comments in another thread.

We got the Jan 12th stocks reports.. how plentiful vs how bad to measure up.. maybe trendline yields match trendline “unknown” disappearance in Feed and Residual?

Worry about 2025 then..  out here where we have to manage around the droughts.. “Too bad we didn’t raise the crop to sell for $7..  oh well.”

Some places buy land.. we try to recover from the cycle.

to each his own.





(C64D0355-DC47-43E1-B8FF-7E8129A3107B (full).png)



(4C68982F-4CFD-4A56-9284-8E258E930422 (full).png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments C64D0355-DC47-43E1-B8FF-7E8129A3107B (full).png (130KB - 72 downloads)
Attachments 4C68982F-4CFD-4A56-9284-8E258E930422 (full).png (152KB - 77 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dirtclod10
Posted 12/30/2023 15:05 (#10549060 - in reply to #10548301)
Subject: RE: Mathematically impossible.


DP is at record levels this year
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SteigerMan310
Posted 12/30/2023 07:08 (#10548411 - in reply to #10548270)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.



Local e plant has said their forward contracted bushels were the lowest ever. Farmer didn’t like declining prices/it was worth $6-7 and they ain’t selling.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
assault
Posted 12/30/2023 10:26 (#10548703 - in reply to #10548270)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Iowa
coup - 12/29/2023 22:58

assault - 12/29/2023 19:37

Some.of.us forward contract.



According to CGB folks their current guess is 30-35% of corn is priced vs 50-55% normally @ this time of the year. When some folks from Bunge were here on a farm visit third week of Sep their guess was 10 percent of corn was priced. If these numbers are close to reality there isn't much 2023 corn that got priced much over $5.
I had 170 per acre sold at over 5 to 5.60 shortly after I got done planting. Sold a lot of beans then and the rest during harvest. 5 and 12+ with the best yields I ever have had works for me.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clay SEIA
Posted 12/29/2023 23:07 (#10548280 - in reply to #10548073)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.



assault - 12/29/2023 20:37 Some.of.us forward contract.


There are posts archived on this forum from August/September 2020 ridiculing anybody who didn't have forward contracts, too.  

Most of us do a mix of different things and the average kinda works out the same. 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Yanny
Posted 12/29/2023 20:40 (#10548075 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Michigan
Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people. It’s the end of the world we told you so!! Everyone knows prices are not good and there’s not a lot of positives for it to go up right now. Sounds like a good time for these guys to retire.

Edited by Yanny 12/29/2023 20:41
Top of the page Bottom of the page
thekcirp
Posted 12/29/2023 20:50 (#10548100 - in reply to #10548075)
Subject: You mean after several years of............


NEMO

Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:40 Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people


young cocky bucks building million dollar houses, packing the driveway with $65,000 suv's and pickups? 2 and 3 gators in the lawn mower shed next to the 4 car garage?
Ok.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 12/29/2023 20:54 (#10548108 - in reply to #10548100)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


USA
thekcirp - 12/29/2023 19:50

Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:40 Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people


young cocky bucks building million dollar houses, packing the driveway with $65,000 suv's and pickups? 2 and 3 gators in the lawn mower shed next to the 4 car garage?
Ok.



You left out camper and boat.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clodbuster1
Posted 12/30/2023 00:06 (#10548304 - in reply to #10548108)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


coup - 12/29/2023 20:54

thekcirp - 12/29/2023 19:50

Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:40 Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people


young cocky bucks building million dollar houses, packing the driveway with $65,000 suv's and pickups? 2 and 3 gators in the lawn mower shed next to the 4 car garage?
Ok.



You left out camper and boat.


I'm pretty sure that the camper and boat are in another shed and seldom left out! LOL
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NEIAAG
Posted 12/31/2023 07:50 (#10549961 - in reply to #10548108)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


coup - 12/29/2023 20:54

thekcirp - 12/29/2023 19:50

Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:40 Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people


young cocky bucks building million dollar houses, packing the driveway with $65,000 suv's and pickups? 2 and 3 gators in the lawn mower shed next to the 4 car garage?
Ok.



You left out camper and boat.


Coup. I appreciate your insight always. As I watch people my age get ill and/or suddenly pass away, I care less and less about if I worked my butt into the ground and saved that very last penny. I am gonna enjoy my family, and do things while I am able too. Pretty sure when the day comes that I leave this world, I won't be wishing I worked more. Other's may feel differently and that's their choice.

Take care.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Yanny
Posted 12/29/2023 21:22 (#10548160 - in reply to #10548100)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Michigan
Proves my point that these posts are just old guys puffing themselves up. Not all young guys overextended themselves.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barren
Posted 12/29/2023 21:46 (#10548192 - in reply to #10548160)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Glasgow, Ky
There has been a lot of puffing going on the last few years both young and old alike.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 12/29/2023 22:49 (#10548262 - in reply to #10548160)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


USA
Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:22

Proves my point that these posts are just old guys puffing themselves up. Not all young guys overextended themselves.


You sound like a wet behind the ears kid that has got a lot to learn. I have got skin in the game financially helping others trying to build a solid financial base for the future.. So you would be wrong about me.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barren
Posted 12/30/2023 04:50 (#10548340 - in reply to #10548262)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Glasgow, Ky

Agree coup.  When times are good and you tell them to be conservative it falls on deaf ears.  When what you told them becomes reality they get upset at you because you were right.  They should be upset at themselves for not listening. .   

Top of the page Bottom of the page
neb04
Posted 12/30/2023 12:52 (#10548913 - in reply to #10548262)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


nebraska
coup - 12/29/2023 22:49

Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:22

Proves my point that these posts are just old guys puffing themselves up. Not all young guys overextended themselves.


You sound like a wet behind the ears kid that has got a lot to learn. I have got skin in the game financially helping others trying to build a solid financial base for the future.. So you would be wrong about me.


Sounds like these “others” need to trim some fat so they can stand on their own. Going to have trouble eventually when the training wheels come off.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jdironman
Posted 12/30/2023 06:49 (#10548388 - in reply to #10548160)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Nw Iowa
Most of the “old” guys have went thru some pretty interesting times. I guess I will just leave it at that.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
assault
Posted 12/30/2023 10:29 (#10548709 - in reply to #10548388)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Iowa
jdironman - 12/30/2023 06:49

Most of the “old” guys have went thru some pretty interesting times. I guess I will just leave it at that.
idk if I'm old but remember the ldp days trying to average 1.85 for corn.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
NE Ridger
Posted 12/30/2023 11:26 (#10548805 - in reply to #10548709)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


EC Nebraska
assault - 12/30/2023 10:29

jdironman - 12/30/2023 06:49

Most of the “old” guys have went thru some pretty interesting times. I guess I will just leave it at that.
idk if I'm old but remember the ldp days trying to average 1.85 for corn.


I’ve been told that makes me old.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
senorthdakota
Posted 12/30/2023 16:12 (#10549128 - in reply to #10548805)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Or $5 soybeans with the ldp!!!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jdironman
Posted 12/30/2023 12:09 (#10548857 - in reply to #10548709)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Nw Iowa
I always did pretty good with LDP, I am pretty good at picking lows LOL
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Newguy
Posted 12/30/2023 12:18 (#10548876 - in reply to #10548709)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Renville Minnesota
assault - 12/30/2023 10:29

jdironman - 12/30/2023 06:49

Most of the “old” guys have went thru some pretty interesting times. I guess I will just leave it at that.
idk if I'm old but remember the ldp days trying to average 1.85 for corn.



Wait a minute here, Does that make me old too?


I thought old was when ya watched land go from $3,000 an acre to $700 here in the 1980’s?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
IADAVE
Posted 12/30/2023 13:47 (#10548974 - in reply to #10548876)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


$1.85 corn was ok for me.
My cost was usually around $1.
The trouble was not many could borrow so all purchases had to be made with cash.
If you ran out of cash you were done.
If you had money borrowed and the bank ran out, you were done.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
humblefarmer
Posted 12/30/2023 08:32 (#10548508 - in reply to #10548160)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


indiana
Maybe us g-d d—n old guys graduated from the school of hard knocks and try to send a message in an attempt to help. Bad things happen to good people everyday.You take offense to the message. I’m pretty sure most are trying to help.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
RCR
Posted 12/29/2023 21:54 (#10548204 - in reply to #10548100)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


SW Ohio
Let me throw the opposite spin.

Maybe young farmer is a guy like me. Bought early and cheap. Lived on a shoe string budget....forever. Expanded off the base, leveraged a little and then hit it big with high yields and high prices.

Did he take those winnings and invest it all back into super high priced land? Or take a fraction of that 100 acres costing 1.5 million and buy some toys....investment into their home.....where the. REAL crop is raised.

Exact choice I made. Remodel on house, new f150 for family hauling and a Viper for me. Can't buy 20 acres for what I spent.

I don't like the old farmer versus young farmer dynamic least of all things. Can't judge a man without wearing his boots.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SilverClayON
Posted 12/29/2023 22:40 (#10548256 - in reply to #10548204)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


SW Ontario
Sounds like you’ve made some great decisions in life. I’m with you, nobody has any right to judge how you go about spending your money as long as you’re not hurting anyone else in the process and not
interested in putting someone else’s boots on.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Caleb1456
Posted 12/29/2023 22:58 (#10548271 - in reply to #10548204)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Magnolia, KY
Very well explained RCR. Some get on NAT and bash everyone who hasn’t done it like them to try to make themselves feel better about their lack of accomplishment. There is a balance to risk and reward in both our farms and our families. I’ll never regret sacrificing many nice things the first 15 years of our farm and marriage so we could grow and establish a solid land base that would sustain our family. When we now are able to use a minuscule portion of the rewards we deferred to the future for personal enjoyment, I have no problem making the investment in some nice things my wife and kids enjoy. Some lose their family trying to live forever in poverty to please the keyboard kings of NAT. Again, there is a balance. Take a nice vacation, buy your wife a decent car, get a pool for the kids, but be wise how you do it.

I will also say when you operate a financially viable farming operation you need a balance of scale and reasonable fixed and variable costs while completing your farming practices in a timely manner. My grandfather often tells me the difference between a good farmer and a bad farmer is three weeks. Let that sink in. New equipment isn’t required, but a mix of newer and experienced well maintained equipment is must to get things done timely. Better yields can make a substantial difference to your bottom line when work is consistently done timely. You’re not going to come out ahead in the long run running a 1460 on 1000 acres and completing harvest in February, but you don’t need an X9 either. Find your balance and know your numbers.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Oakview
Posted 12/30/2023 09:51 (#10548637 - in reply to #10548271)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


NEND
Great post.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barren
Posted 12/30/2023 04:53 (#10548343 - in reply to #10548204)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Glasgow, Ky

You are a wise man.  You know what works and do it vs emulating what most others do.  Refreshing to see someone young doing what many of us older folks had to do when we were younger.  

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clay SEIA
Posted 12/29/2023 23:19 (#10548286 - in reply to #10548100)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............



Well, don’t think I’m young and cocky, but I’d like to think I’m not old and grumpy. I don’t want a million dollars house with a packed driveway, but I do want to build something while I still have the ability to do sweat labor equity into it. If our current mortgage balance is out of line, then I probably might as well call the auction company and give them yet another reason to have a merry Christmas.





(IMG_3656 (full).jpeg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_3656 (full).jpeg (89KB - 68 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
AGDEAL
Posted 12/30/2023 08:25 (#10548500 - in reply to #10548286)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Illinois
Clay you’re one good year away from having it paid off
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tmrand
Posted 12/30/2023 09:12 (#10548553 - in reply to #10548500)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............



Southeast Colorado
Unless that's the note on his wife's SUV!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
AGDEAL
Posted 12/30/2023 09:34 (#10548598 - in reply to #10548553)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Illinois
Ha I thought it was his home mortgage
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clay SEIA
Posted 12/30/2023 09:57 (#10548649 - in reply to #10548553)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............



tmrand - 12/30/2023 09:12

Unless that's the note on his wife's SUV!


Megan’s daily driver is a 2004 Honda Accord. California car, super clean, can’t go down the road much more economically than this.





(IMG_3657 (full).jpeg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_3657 (full).jpeg (91KB - 55 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Clay SEIA
Posted 12/30/2023 09:52 (#10548638 - in reply to #10548500)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............



Well, I'm not sure that would be the smartest thing right now to pay off a mortgage that was done before interest rates doubled.  Think we're going to sit in a holding pattern and see a little more of how farm prices and the general economy shake out before making a different move....

Top of the page Bottom of the page
senorthdakota
Posted 12/30/2023 15:59 (#10549103 - in reply to #10548638)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


Yep we can put the $$ in a cd an make more than paying off the few loans we have here also...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FarmingMo
Posted 12/30/2023 10:30 (#10548715 - in reply to #10548100)
Subject: RE: You mean after several years of............


NeMO
65,000 ain't gonna buy you a Denali suv or pickup anymore
Top of the page Bottom of the page
coup
Posted 12/29/2023 20:53 (#10548103 - in reply to #10548075)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


USA
Yanny - 12/29/2023 19:40

Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people. It’s the end of the world we told you so!! Everyone knows prices are not good and there’s not a lot of positives for it to go up right now. Sounds like a good time for these guys to retire.


Best to not stick one's head in the sand and continue to operate in the hope faze. If corn and beans price follows what wheat price has done since it peaked, the outcome is going to be gut wrenching over the next couple of years.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
bkadds
Posted 12/29/2023 22:17 (#10548236 - in reply to #10548103)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Dalhart, Texas
Some will have sold at the top five years out…just ask them. The trolls on here keep trolling and the everyone knows who they are.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
E.Daehler
Posted 12/29/2023 23:04 (#10548275 - in reply to #10548075)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Higginsville, MO
Yanny - 12/29/2023 20:40

Kinda getting tired of these old guy posts where they are giddy the chickens are coming to roost on the foolish people. It’s the end of the world we told you so!! Everyone knows prices are not good and there’s not a lot of positives for it to go up right now. Sounds like a good time for these guys to retire.


I get that crap everyday from my father. Gets old, been old for a long time. Grain prices have their highs and lows, welcome marketing. Machinery prices ... well they have their high highs lately for many pieces and not seeing many lows Guaranteed there will be a drop there too but with worthless money it will be at a different level price plateau. I watch 8000 series Allis tractors a lot, didnt ever think id see whats going on in that market. My thought and concern is mainly intrest rates, great for the older person that isn't trying to grow. Crappy for the guy building their piece of this so called American Dream. We look at all what could of have had with loss of price and/or difference in yield. Whats someone going to do with that extra 1.2 million anyways? Keep a new tractor in the shed every year, live completely out of ones means just because you can? Chase the guy/neighbor that could use another few acres to farm full time out of business? Just trying to put things in a different perspective.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
greg33
Posted 12/29/2023 20:54 (#10548109 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


are you worrying about the IRS?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mr.Grain
Posted 12/29/2023 20:56 (#10548115 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


coup - 12/29/2023 17:09

With corn about about $2 bu less than year ago x 1000 acres x 200 bu = $400,000 less revenue for each 1000 acres of corn.

Way things currently look 2024 corn crop will be $2 bu less than 2022 crop also.


3000 acres corn @ $1.2 million x 2 years = $2.4 million less revenue.

Going to require major fat trimming to balance things out.



It doesn’t; look good today………i think more important then where prices go is listening to what the market is telling you and putting yourself in a position to do what it asks of one…….so right now having the flexibility to hold corn…..long term while placing short hedges out

sell the nearby and roll it out to pick up the carry……up until the point one things it is ready to stabilize……then you simple sell the carry, until it actually wants to rally .

that is what the market is telling us to do……this wasn’t what the market told us in 2021-2023…….


Spreads or where you have hedges is how one makes bad years work….and makes good years better


Not only month to month, but commodity to commodity ……take the spread between black oil sunflowers and confectionary sunflowers…….

Top of the page Bottom of the page
T-rowe
Posted 12/29/2023 21:51 (#10548199 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


North central MO
You old timers gotta get with the program, you gotta use that common core math.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
sloughclub
Posted 12/30/2023 02:47 (#10548319 - in reply to #10548199)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Southern Missouri
I haven’t looked at all ,just wondering what the last 10 year average for the November forward year contract price of soybeans would figure compared to the 12.45 that it is this January 1? I realize inputs are higher but a soybean crop at todays inputs can still be grown in fair comparison to last 10 average inputs if your k levels are good , you know to try to get at least some strategy to get past 12 more months of lower pricing on corn,it is an election year as well . The way some make it sound ,anyone in early stages of their career may as well call the auction truck now and just give up and go away ,just an example, in my graduating high school class of 1975 ,there were 7 boys out of a class of 52 total kids that started their own farm operation , at the beginning of 1986 ,there was one of those operations left , this is not the first time in history prices looked a little bleak ,headed back to the sand pile to get my head in real good,Jimmy Valvano gave some very good advice in his farewell speech,yes I’m an old guy ,Happy new year everybody,just my two cents

Edited by sloughclub 12/30/2023 03:14
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barren
Posted 12/30/2023 05:05 (#10548346 - in reply to #10548319)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Glasgow, Ky

Old guy here too.  Good post and have a Happy and Healthy New Year.  Seems at our age the health becomes more important than $$$.  

Top of the page Bottom of the page
nilbart
Posted 12/30/2023 07:50 (#10548450 - in reply to #10548346)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


yep, the potential look ahead is a lot shorter than the actual look behind. For all the young fellas, just keep the wolves (salesmen) at bay and you will be fine. May we all be here to usher in 2025!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
reformedbanker
Posted 12/30/2023 08:12 (#10548481 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


2024 crop should be profitable on projected income and cashflows for nearly all corn and soybean producers at current input / grain prices, in my area anyway. If not profitable here, the producer should take a very hard look at their operation and consider deleveraging.

The last few years were a gift and far from the norm.

Regarding the lengthy thread from Reality. I suspect the lines he mentioned were probably over leveraged to begin with and added too much cap ex. But beyond that, it's a timing thing of when the financial statements were taken. $7 corn on a balance sheet that gets sold for $5.50 will hurt the next financial statement, BUT it does not mean that 2022 crop didn't still make money at $5.50. It simply did not make as much as it would have if the grain were sold on 12/31/2022 or whatever date the financial statement was completed.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
yathink
Posted 12/30/2023 09:26 (#10548579 - in reply to #10548481)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


north central iowa
"The last few years were a gift and far from the norm."

Very true.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
sloughclub
Posted 12/30/2023 09:38 (#10548609 - in reply to #10548579)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Southern Missouri
For my post above best I could do



(IMG_2345 (full).png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_2345 (full).png (92KB - 92 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JC STONE
Posted 12/30/2023 10:30 (#10548714 - in reply to #10547766)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Expenses should be less, so still might work with good yields
Top of the page Bottom of the page
sloughclub
Posted 12/30/2023 10:34 (#10548727 - in reply to #10548714)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


Southern Missouri
Bought a big supply of this years generic liberty for the deduct and paid 18.40 , that’s far far cheaper than it’s been on a long liberty chart , that’ll help too
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cat33
Posted 12/30/2023 21:59 (#10549660 - in reply to #10548714)
Subject: RE: Simple math doesn't look good.


NE SD
JC STONE - 12/30/2023 10:30

Expenses should be less, so still might work with good yields


If a person only "might" be able to make it work with good yields at these prices, then they've got a spending problem IMO.


Though this is coming from the perspective of 3 generations of farming that has never bought 1 piece of brand new equipment over the years. New to me is 4 years old, and it stays in the mix for another 10-12 years.

1 exception...my dad bought himself a new Ranger when he turned 85 to putz around and "supervise" in.

Edited by Cat33 12/30/2023 22:01
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

(Delete cookies)