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Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions
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Beef State Ben
Posted 9/13/2023 09:04 (#10399972)
Subject: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


NW of Lincoln, NE
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is this, and should it be leaking air out the side where you can see the bubbles?

On the backside of this is connected to the gladhand hoses. The only thing connected to the front side are air supply hoses from the tractor. This is on a 1990 Kenworth T400C. I’m trying to find an air leak and this is my first suspect.

Thank you!

Edit: I’m assuming it’s the tractor protection valve but I still need a little guidance.

Edited by Beef State Ben 9/13/2023 09:09




(IMG_6929 (full).jpeg)



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Attachments IMG_6929 (full).jpeg (127KB - 76 downloads)
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Bern
Posted 9/13/2023 09:07 (#10399976 - in reply to #10399972)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


Mount Vernon, WA
Tiny bubbles like that are considered acceptable. It's the audible air leaks that catch the attention of DOT inspectors.
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Beef State Ben
Posted 9/13/2023 09:08 (#10399979 - in reply to #10399976)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


NW of Lincoln, NE
Seeing as I can’t even hold the brakes through a stoplight without getting a low pressure warning I am plenty concerned without worrying about inspections.

Edited by Beef State Ben 9/13/2023 09:09
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Bern
Posted 9/13/2023 09:11 (#10399985 - in reply to #10399979)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


Mount Vernon, WA
If it leaks down air that fast, you haven't found it yet. Find a buddy to hold the brake pedal down while you troubleshoot with your ears.

Edited by Bern 9/13/2023 09:11
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Beef State Ben
Posted 9/13/2023 09:31 (#10400016 - in reply to #10399985)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


NW of Lincoln, NE
I think it’s in the treadle valve but I was hoping that it wasn’t.
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Bern
Posted 9/13/2023 09:54 (#10400041 - in reply to #10400016)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


Mount Vernon, WA
Any audible air leak with the engine off while holding the brake pedal down is a DOT violation (same with pedal released). Make sure whoever is in the cab holding the pedal down for you has a steady foot, because if he can't hold it still you'll have a false positive.
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jd4930
Posted 9/13/2023 09:17 (#10399992 - in reply to #10399979)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


Central ND
Beef State Ben - 9/13/2023 09:08

Seeing as I can’t even hold the brakes through a stoplight without getting a low pressure warning I am plenty concerned without worrying about inspections.


That leak is not what you are looking for then.....
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coopertruck
Posted 9/13/2023 11:57 (#10400167 - in reply to #10399979)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


If you're only losing air while using the brakes, you most likely have a brake chamber leaking on the service side (air applied from the brake pedal). Check all (truck and trailer) brake chambers for air leaks with the brake pedal depressed. If you find a chamber leaking don't try to take it apart unless you know what you're doing, they can be dangerous. You can call me and I'll walk you through it. 708-five one four-4858

Edited by coopertruck 9/13/2023 12:05
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Beef State Ben
Posted 9/13/2023 12:40 (#10400213 - in reply to #10400167)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


NW of Lincoln, NE
I appreciate that. I’ve changed one before. Nothing sounded loose in any of them when I banged on them. I realize that’s not a surefire test, but it’s something.

So far seems that it’s the tpv. It was running air through the service side with the brakes applied even when the trailer was not supplied with air. I don’t know why this wasn’t easier to notice except that there was a lot of noise in the cab and I didn’t have anyone to help me test things. A ratchet strap to hold the brake pedal helped with that problem.

I’ve yet to put the one in but this was certainly (at least part of) the problem.
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dgramenz
Posted 9/13/2023 13:19 (#10400253 - in reply to #10400213)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions



SW Illinois
They won’t sound loose because it’s just a hole in the rubber diaphragm that leaks.
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mmaddox
Posted 9/13/2023 13:25 (#10400258 - in reply to #10400253)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


While I agree with other, replace the valve, it is not going to fix itself, only get worse.
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Thud
Posted 9/13/2023 13:27 (#10400263 - in reply to #10400253)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


Near-north Ontario, French River
If the maxi sounds 'loose' when you tap it, the spring is broken, but that doesnt necessarily mean the pancake is ruptured.. but if it isnt its just a matter of time. To the OP, I had a ABS valve fail once, when you hit the brakes there was a very audible air leak. Also had a TPV fail once, when you hit the brake pedal there would be a 2-3 second lag until the trail brakes engage, then when you let off they seemed to drag for 2-3 seconds before releasing. New TPV solved that issue. IF its your treadal valve the air leak should be easily audible , even with the engine running. You description of not being able to hold pressure at a stop light tells me you have a blown service chamber. Depending how badly the pancake is torn they can be very audible or almost impossible to hear. Pull the truck in the shop, put shop air to the air tanks, and with the truck OFF, depress the brakes. if you can't hear anything, go from wheel to wheel and physically feel around all the brake chambers and various valves. You've got a major air leak somewhere and shouldn't be driving until its fixed.
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Beef State Ben
Posted 9/13/2023 14:30 (#10400329 - in reply to #10399972)
Subject: RE: Semi Air Brakes Troubleshooting Questions


NW of Lincoln, NE
For anyone following this thread, or finding it in the future, and has a similar problem, here’s what I know.

The tractor protection valve was bad. It was held open at all times and releasing air to the trailer when it shouldn’t be. It also had that small leak out the side as the bubbles show in the picture. Replacing that solved the first issue but then I found another one…

With the TPV replaced. The truck was holding air better until the brakes were pressed hard. At that point, it became clear that one of the front brake chambers was leaking badly. That was really hard to find with the TPV leaking because of how much air noise it was making.

Edited by Beef State Ben 9/13/2023 14:31
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