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timjohn

Posted 6/7/2023 15:16 (#10260694)
Subject: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SE Wisconsin

Anyone here taken an old stave silo and converted it to a bottom unload? We have a really nice 20x70 silo that has no unloader in it. I am considering starting to use it again rather than filling a bag. Local company tells me they work really good once converted to a bottom unloader.

obviously a traditional unloader would be cheaper, but safety wise i am thinking climbing up and down is better over the long term.

or maybe renting a bagger is better because i have no long term investment if i quit feeding cattle in two years for whatever reason. tell me i am not crazy.

thanks!
tim

Kooiker

Posted 6/7/2023 16:21 (#10260730 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Rent the bagger.

You can walk away from it at any time and you will always be able to feed cattle one way or another even if you have to borrow a loader/skidloader from a neighbor because yours is broke down.

timjohn

Posted 6/8/2023 10:48 (#10261694 - in reply to #10260730)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SE Wisconsin

good point to make, i just am a mud snob and am tired of making a big mess.

Kooiker

Posted 6/8/2023 10:59 (#10261703 - in reply to #10261694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

timjohn - 6/8/2023 10:48 good point to make, i just am a mud snob and am tired of making a big mess.

There are ways to combat mud. Even a little dirt work to make the water drain away from the area you put the bag on can do wonders.

IMO, if the silo is usable and you have a usable bunk feeder, find a good used top unloaded. If the silo needs work or you don’t have a bunk feeder that’s usable, forget about it and put that money towards dirt work and rock or concrete. If you did the work yourself, the money for a used unloaded ($3000?) could buy the ready mix for a 12’ x 90’ strip of concrete.

Crete

Posted 6/7/2023 19:33 (#10260920 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Badger State

My Lord just bag it.

Dumbfarmer2

Posted 6/7/2023 20:36 (#10261019 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SE Iowa

I may be a bit ignorant but aren’t top unloaders a way better deal? Atleast you can fix them cuz it’s not buried in silage and whatnot. We’ve only had top unloads and yes they can be a pain but I prefer them over a bag anyday and no I’m not crazy lol I know I’m in the vast minority there. Depends on if your in it for the long haul or not.. that will tell you which direction to go bag or silo.

TP from Central PA

Posted 6/7/2023 20:50 (#10261042 - in reply to #10261019)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

I assume he was talking about going with a Big Jim.............Its above the feed on top, feed falls down a formed chimney(When its filled) in the middle of the silo to a conveyor in the bottom. I was only ever around two, and I think the dealers who put them in had alot to do with it, because one worked like a POS, while the other of the same vintage was amazing. If it works right its a heck of a setup, but with that said, I wonder what a new one costs these days, I am sure its not cheap, but I also imagine what was done with electrical switch contactors on the original Jamesway versions has been cleaned up alot with modern electronics and that probably makes them work even better yet. I know they have put up some tower silos in Lancaster with a drive under alley in the bottom instead of a conveyor, and I was told they can really spit the feed out with not much headache.

Crete

Posted 6/7/2023 21:09 (#10261073 - in reply to #10261019)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Badger State

I've fed from silos most of my life and now bags so I kinda know my way around both. What to you perceive as an advantage to the silos? Because I sure the heck can't think of one besides plastic disposal.

Dumbfarmer2

Posted 6/7/2023 21:42 (#10261128 - in reply to #10261073)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SE Iowa

We use a bag every year for our cows/calves and also fill the silo for fat cattle with conveyor system. Yes it’s a little crude but I can feed 100 head of fat cattle from start to finish in about 10 minutes. I can promise you I can’t scoop that much silage and feed it with a wagon in that amount of time lol. No engines to start when it’s cold, no mud to spin around in when it’s wet in the spring, silos keep excellent feed and don’t have to worry about rodents getting into it like a bag.. idk if your going in to long term cattle feeding it seems to me like the best option.
I really think most silos got a bad wrap because guys didn’t do routine maintenance on them like they should.. and then when things break up in the air it sucks. But not letting it get to that point is the key. We’ve fed probably 5-6 years no with zero issues with the unloader just have to keep up on it before it gets too bad.. u don’t expect ur tractor to run on the same oil for 20 years don’t expect ur unloader to run maintence free either.

Crete

Posted 6/8/2023 05:43 (#10261316 - in reply to #10261128)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Badger State

Your feeding a balanced ration in 10 minutes? I suppose it's possible some days but not realistic and not that impressive compared to the quality and advantages of TMR loaded from the bags.

No motors? Your unloader must be powered by pixie dust and unicorns. The last 2 years I fed from the silos I had motor issues 5 separate times. In the 2 years of feeding out of bags the TMR tractor didn't start once. Drug it out of the way and put another on. Dragging the 7 hp up the silo chute wasn't so easy.

I have less rodent issues and mess without out the silos and bunks that went with them. (Most of the issue is with the bunks tho)

TP from Central PA

Posted 6/8/2023 08:55 (#10261563 - in reply to #10261316)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Seems like alot of motor issues for that small period of time. Motors were the more reliable things on the unloaders IMO.

Crete

Posted 6/8/2023 09:20 (#10261585 - in reply to #10261563)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Badger State

That was 3 silos and 2 conveyors. Was several years before without issue. PM wasn't going to prevent any of it tho.

kipps

Posted 6/8/2023 11:38 (#10261738 - in reply to #10261585)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Madison Co. Virginia

3-phase makes all the difference on motor reliability. I have plenty of problems with my silo unloaders, but the motors simply aren't one of them. I apply power to the motor, and it will run.

AJACRES

Posted 6/8/2023 17:11 (#10262002 - in reply to #10261073)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SW Wisconsin

Silos take up less space & are reusable. Keeps you fit as a fiddle climbing them is just icing on the cake! They still serve a purpose on some farms.

WJKEIGER

Posted 6/7/2023 21:13 (#10261083 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

nw NC

If the inside surface of the concrete stave silo is in good condition and not damaged by silage acid (causing the silo to be a risk to use), get a top unloader and use the silo. Think of this; 500 tons or more of feed in a 20 foot circle of real estate compared to the amount of ground needed for enough area for same tonnage as determined from chart below. Plus upright silo has a roof, and no mud and snow to fight feeding from it during poor weather conditions. No possibility of varmints tearing open the side of a concrete silo like they could a plastic bag. No plastic junk to dispose of each year. I sold silage to a neighbor from my field, chopped it using my equipment. He rented a bagger and he and a helper did the filling. Made good quality feed but the muddy mess which quickly developed was a problem for feeding. I would never want bags if there was a usable upright available.

Edited by WJKEIGER 6/7/2023 21:22

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Tpos79

Posted 6/7/2023 22:15 (#10261170 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Northeast WI

What would you use it for? Haylage? Corn silage? Corn silage blows out good. Haylage you need a really good unloader. We had 3 surface drive unloaders in silos. Had a few run ins with silo gas and went to bags. Silos make the best feed, but I don’t miss them. Silo unloader won’t have much value if you decide to quit.

WCWI

Posted 6/7/2023 22:31 (#10261200 - in reply to #10261170)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

If you don't get the silo empty cap it with plastic, fork out a little rotten stuff and re-fill or go back to feeding, how will your bag last till next year with varmints checking it out periodically?, 20x 70 will hold one heck of a pile of feed though if you fill it. Are they a pain at times, yes, but I am thinking bags are not a bed of roses either. My uncle sold and serviced Big Jim's at one time and put a quite a few of them into bottom unloading stave silos and Harvestores. Biggest thing with silo unloaders is when it is on the bottom go thru it and fix what needs fixing, grease what needs greasing periodically, lot handier when at the bottom instead of the top in the middle of the winter.

timjohn

Posted 6/8/2023 09:26 (#10261593 - in reply to #10261170)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SE Wisconsin

corn silage is my thought.

Mac46147

Posted 6/8/2023 07:13 (#10261423 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

I never minded a good upright with a good aggressive ring drive top unloaded. I much preferred our concrete silos to our harvestore. The bottom unload feature is nice as you can unload while you fill but my god the cost of maintenance! Put haylage or triticale in one and they’re worthless.
Use all bags now. I think if you want to utilize your silo do it, but I’d recommend top unload.
Nothing wrong with bags though

timjohn

Posted 6/8/2023 09:34 (#10261603 - in reply to #10261423)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

SE Wisconsin

thank you

kipps

Posted 6/8/2023 08:23 (#10261532 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Madison Co. Virginia

Inspect the silo carefully before going any further. Will it need plastering inside? -- $10k. Will it need reinforcing around the base of the silo? -- $2k + labor. Will it need some of the lower hoops replaced due to rust? $2k + a lot of labor. Will it need doors rebuilt? $3k, + a lot of labor.

If the silo is worth using as-is, install an unloader. A ring-drive top unloader is the only type worth considering, particularly for that small of a silo. You can find them used for $2-3k without a lot of issue. Hopefully the cables are still in the silo, and still in good enough condition to use. If not, you'll need to fill the silo first, then string the cables, and haul the unloader up in pieces to the top of the silo for reassembly.

Dvr

Posted 6/8/2023 08:35 (#10261540 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Edgerton MN

Yeah, the silo vs bag thing is about like red vs green tractors. If you want to put an unloader in that silo, I will bet with a little effort, you can find a slightly used one for not much money. A 20' silo is a very popular size and with all the smaller dairies that have quit in the last 10 years or so I would think there is a reasonable inventory of them in WI. Just have a good service man check it over before you install it.

timjohn

Posted 6/8/2023 09:19 (#10261583 - in reply to #10261540)
Subject: thank you

SE Wisconsin

I have done bags in the past and am really against all the mud associated with them. I do not have a good spot to put one without it creating a mud hole.

I think this conversation has me thinking converting to a bottom unload makes no sense. wasted money. For $3k we can get a decent 20 foot ring drive and I have to deal with climbing the silo a few times. ugh.

Crete

Posted 6/8/2023 09:28 (#10261595 - in reply to #10261583)
Subject: RE: thank you

Badger State

Do you have the correct tripod for a ring drive?

timjohn

Posted 6/8/2023 10:16 (#10261654 - in reply to #10261595)
Subject: RE: thank you

SE Wisconsin

i will have to look. I am not sure and did not know there was a difference.

I have a surface drive unloader in a smaller 16x55 stave silo. i have not used that one in 25 years though. i hated it with a passion. The guy we bought our farm from used all three silos. We used one the first two years and had some many problems with the surface drive. ended up forking most of the silo out. the surface drive wheel would bury itself in the silage.

I currently feed grain and free choice hay. this worked good at $3.50 corn and 5-10 steers... seems like feeding 30-35 heifers/steers will require a bit more feed management and watching the budget. Corn silage i think will be more cost efficient. i guess that will be another post. haha

Crete

Posted 6/8/2023 11:00 (#10261704 - in reply to #10261654)
Subject: RE: thank you

Badger State

35 head isn't going to keep up to a 20x70

Edited by Crete 6/8/2023 12:37

timjohn

Posted 6/8/2023 15:21 (#10261916 - in reply to #10261704)
Subject: RE: thank you

SE Wisconsin

i was going to use silage to feed our 35 cows too. so 70 head total eating off it.

how many acres of corn silage will fill that 20x70? I just think bang for my buck, silage might be a better way to feed cows over the winter than dry hay. it takes a lot more acres of dry hay to accomplish what maybe 20 acres of corn silage might accomplish. plus then i have a place to go with manure in september, then can drill a rye or triticale into the corn ground to make balaage in spring. or graze it if dry enough. just a few of my thoughts.

thank you for all the advice

tillage-director

Posted 6/8/2023 17:38 (#10262026 - in reply to #10261916)
Subject: RE: thank you

Central MN

We fill a 20*70 here. On a normal year it takes around 20 acres to fill it. This is feeding dairy cows and heifers about 140 or so head. The silos here work better than the bags. We also fill 3 9*200 bags that my cousin try’s to feed up during the winter to lessen the mud problem. Put up your silage a little on the dry side 50-55% and you won’t have any problems. You should be able to get around 500 tons. Here a silo lasts about 4 months. Once you get them going, we go up once a week to change doors and that’s about it. The unloaders are both surface drives. The part that does suck is getting them started because you usually have trouble with some slimy rotten crap on the top but I think that would be aliviated if we were to start feeding them shortly after filling. Usually fill them around the first of October and don’t open the first one up until February-march

Glendon_B

Posted 8/19/2023 12:35 (#10365928 - in reply to #10262026)
Subject: RE: converting a stave Silo to bottom unload

Bethel, PA

tillage-director - 6/8/2023 18:38

We fill a 20*70 here. On a normal year it takes around 20 acres to fill it. This is feeding dairy cows and heifers about 140 or so head. The silos here work better than the bags. We also fill 3 9*200 bags that my cousin try’s to feed up during the winter to lessen the mud problem. Put up your silage a little on the dry side 50-55% and you won’t have any problems. You should be able to get around 500 tons. Here a silo lasts about 4 months. Once you get them going, we go up once a week to change doors and that’s about it. The unloaders are both surface drives. The part that does suck is getting them started because you usually have trouble with some slimy rotten on the top but I think that would be aliviated if we were to start feeding them shortly after filling. Usually fill them around the first of October and don’t open the first one up until February-march

I like silos a lot better than bags too. We have way less mold issues with our stave silos and the unloaders are reliable. The reason most people don't like silos is because they don't keep their unloader maintained. If they took care of their skid loader the way they do their unloader. they wouldn't like their trenches either. People would rather spend on a nice skid loader because all the neighbors see it but no one sees if you have a nice unloader. We are tight on land space here and silos take way less land space than bags and trenches. Till you figure in time for shaving the face and pulling back the tires and cover, a trench can't save much time over silos.

Edited by Glendon_B 8/19/2023 12:36

TP from Central PA

Posted 6/8/2023 11:01 (#10261705 - in reply to #10261654)
Subject: RE: thank you

Pack drive unloaders suck..................

Crete

Posted 6/8/2023 12:40 (#10261790 - in reply to #10261705)
Subject: RE: thank you

Badger State

We ran 4 of them. Never had any real issue.

Even filled with whole shelled corn the last 5-6 years.

WJKEIGER

Posted 6/8/2023 21:07 (#10262313 - in reply to #10261705)
Subject: RE: thank you

nw NC

TP from Central PA - 6/8/2023 11:01

Pack drive unloaders suck..................

Some do, some don't. Badger unloaders with those heavy concrete drive wheels got stuck a lot more than our Van Dale unloaders do. The Badgers are long gone from here.

WCWI

Posted 6/8/2023 22:38 (#10262444 - in reply to #10262313)
Subject: RE: thank you

Not all pack drive unloaders are created equal, we had Van Dale 18 foot, still do actually hanging in the silo yet with almost new augers- (guess that is what they call a stranded asset) it is a good unloader , much better then the Barn-a-Matic before it, Hanson were also quite popular. Had the same open GE 5 hp motor single phase on it for 36 years, rewound it once, then dad tied a bed sheet around it to make it enclosed, never had a problem with it after that. LOL

garvo

Posted 6/9/2023 13:39 (#10263209 - in reply to #10262444)
Subject: RE: thank you

western iowa,by Denison

I chopped corn silage for a older farmer-he puts around 250 ton off about 10 acres-he does a drive over pile-he lays plastic down then carefully puts silage on it until it is about 15 inchs deep, then packs it about 6ft deep with a small crown.
After packin he covers it with 2 layers of white plastic and tires and then removes plastic as he feeds-he is using lime underneath for his base on a partial slope-I would put his feed up against anyone.I'm glad my silos are gone-he feeds his cattle with a small skid loader and gets along great

timjohn

Posted 6/10/2023 07:41 (#10264041 - in reply to #10263209)
Subject: RE: thank you

SE Wisconsin

How big of an area does that take up?

kipps

Posted 6/8/2023 17:23 (#10262008 - in reply to #10261654)
Subject: RE: thank you

Madison Co. Virginia

timjohn - 6/8/2023 11:16

i will have to look. I am not sure and did not know there was a difference.

A ring drive unloader uses three suspension cables, each about a foot or two in from the wall of the silo.

Most surface drive unloaders are hung from a single suspension cable in the middle of the silo.

If your tripod at the top of the silo has three distinct suspension points near the wall, then it's likely designed for a ring-drive. Take a photo of the tripod assembly, and put it here in a new post; someone will be able to identify it.

Mac46147

Posted 6/8/2023 13:05 (#10261821 - in reply to #10261583)
Subject: RE: thank you

You can’t prevent all breakdowns but like everything else, going over them real well when they’re on the ground can save you carrying a lot of stuff up when in use

kipps

Posted 6/10/2023 07:51 (#10264055 - in reply to #10261821)
Subject: RE: thank you

Madison Co. Virginia

Mac46147 - 6/8/2023 14:05

You can’t prevent all breakdowns but like everything else, going over them real well when they’re on the ground can save you carrying a lot of stuff up when in use

I haven't done this myself, but welding a toolbox to a suspension arm wouldn't be a bad idea. Most repairs on my Jamesway ring-drive unloaders can be done with 9/16" and 1/2" socket and flat-wrenches, pipe wrench, vice grip, files, and screwdrivers. That's $50 worth of HF tools.

Obviously, for something more involved, such as swapping out a badly burnt collector ring assembly, you'll be carrying additional tools up and down the silo. There's no point trying to make a in-silo tool collection cover every possible scenario.

Haleiwa

Posted 6/8/2023 14:52 (#10261898 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

West Chazy, New York

Don't do it. Silos designed for bottom unloaders are much stronger than for top unloaders. A bottom unloader creates a dome under the silage and much of the weight is supported by the walls. The silage under a top unloader is supported by the floor. If you are considering a top unload/bottom discharge like a Big Jim that is a different story. They work quite well but like anything else there is a learning curve.

Green Acres Guy

Posted 6/10/2023 11:31 (#10264312 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Latimer, Iowa (north central)

For that amount of storage I would use bags hands down.

Most of the automatic feeding systems/silo unloaders have age on them now and haven’t been used in years for a reason. We fed 1200 head out of “automatic silos” and 600 head with bags and a tmr. Everyone preferred the bags. The sub zero mornings following a Van Dale surface drive around, chipping walls, as an 8 year old cured me of every wanting to deal with silos again. We had 2 30x80 top unloads into a patz conveyor system. When it worked was fine but when it didn’t there was no trading out a tractor and getting feeding done. We also have a 24x80 foragestor bottom unload with a laidig. They Filled it once with ground ear corn and dad said they never considered it again for anything but shell corn. Said “anyone dumb enough to put silage in a bottom unload deserved what they got”. We used it for high moisture shell corn for the 25 years I was around it.

We used a bagger from farm show magazine. Was made by a Walder mfg in Wisconsin. Was a flat sheet bagger that you blew into a frame with the silage blower. Held about 3 ton a foot and didn’t have plastic underneath to get into wheels or bucket. Worked pretty good but took some finesse to fill well. Plastic was 40 foot wide flat sheets on a roll. Tuck edges under and frame held up to fill. Bags/sheet were half price of an ag bag and held 2-3 times as much.

Edited by Green Acres Guy 6/10/2023 11:47

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Kooiker

Posted 6/10/2023 23:10 (#10265136 - in reply to #10264312)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Green Acres Guy - 6/10/2023 11:31 We used a bagger from farm show magazine. Was made by a Walder mfg in Wisconsin. Was a flat sheet bagger that you blew into a frame with the silage blower. Held about 3 ton a foot and didn’t have plastic underneath to get into wheels or bucket. Worked pretty good but took some finesse to fill well. Plastic was 40 foot wide flat sheets on a roll. Tuck edges under and frame held up to fill. Bags/sheet were half price of an ag bag and held 2-3 times as much.

Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't the lack of packing leave a lot of air stranded in the silage inside the "bag" which would result in a lot of spoilage/shrinkage?

Green Acres Guy

Posted 6/11/2023 07:22 (#10265346 - in reply to #10265136)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

Latimer, Iowa (north central)

The blower pushing it in, had a directional spout/diverter on it packed it very well. Made really good feed but there was defiantly an art to getting it filled correctly and not put any holes in the plastic. Feed would be a hard packed face for the entire height when loading out, had to feed a few feet a day to keep ahead of spoilage once opened a bag up and exposed it to oxygen. We were running a Gehl 1580 1000 rpm blower at 1100 rpm and it has alot of force when only 20 foot from the end of the spout. Getting the bag sealed up on ends and along sides as you filled were important too.

NDCat99

Posted 6/12/2023 10:48 (#10267341 - in reply to #10260694)
Subject: RE: converting a stave silo to bottom unload

E ND

I would agree converting to bottom unload at this point with an older silo is probably not a good investment.

I do think the upright vs. bags argument is totally dependent on the rest of your feeding setup. If you have a fairly automated feeding barn, where you're unloading directly into a bunk via a traveling conveyor or auger system, it's pretty nice to flip the switch and go do something else or walk the pen while it runs and the calves line up. This approach does obviously limit you from a TMR style approach to a ration but for a fat finishing barn feeding ground corn or similar, it's pretty slick. Very little flexibility also but again, if your setup like this it is an easy decision to continue using the upright.

If you're trying to unload corn silage from an upright into an elevator out into a TMR or feeding wagon to feed in fenceline bunks, it would be painfully slow compared to bags. It made sense on a dairy where the majority of the feeding was all happening inside and a load or two went out the door to feed other groups but not as the main event.

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