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kipps

Posted 8/5/2022 19:29 (#9782302)
Subject: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Madison Co. Virginia

With ISO-pattern skid-steers, what do the wheels/tracks do in positions A, B, and C, respectively?

A -- all the way forward and to the left.
B -- all the way to the left.
C -- all the way back and to the left.

I don't have a ISO machine to play with, but am just trying to wrap my mind around how ISO could possibly be an improvement over H-pattern.

Edited by kipps 8/5/2022 19:30

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johnny skeptical

Posted 8/5/2022 19:35 (#9782310 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

n.c.iowa

You can drink a beer with one hand, and drive the machine with the other.

Kooiker

Posted 8/5/2022 20:04 (#9782366 - in reply to #9782310)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

johnny skeptical - 8/5/2022 19:35

You can drink a beer with one hand, and drive the machine with the other.

The only thing good about ISO is it allows you to drive across the yard with one hand. That’s it, the old H pattern is better in every other facet.

Drinking anything in a skid steer while moving is dangerous, IMO.

kipps

Posted 8/5/2022 20:13 (#9782383 - in reply to #9782366)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Madison Co. Virginia

Kooiker - 8/5/2022 21:04
That’s it, the old H pattern is better in every other facet.

That's the way I see it too. If ISO was so much better, then zero-turn mowers would have switched to a single joystick control.

johnny skeptical

Posted 8/5/2022 20:40 (#9782431 - in reply to #9782383)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

n.c.iowa

There are several mowers available with joystick control.

nebfarmer

Posted 8/5/2022 20:50 (#9782455 - in reply to #9782366)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

SE Nebraska, Near Misery and Cans Ass!

Kooiker - 8/5/2022 20:04

johnny skeptical - 8/5/2022 19:35

You can drink a beer with one hand, and drive the machine with the other.

To reach his own but I find the ISOs to be much superior.

TP from Central PA

Posted 8/5/2022 21:36 (#9782522 - in reply to #9782455)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

+1.............H is better than hand/foot contraption, but I prefer to ISO to either, having Gehl T-bars for years probably influenced that, not much change going from those to pilots with ISO.

johnny skeptical

Posted 8/5/2022 22:28 (#9782603 - in reply to #9782366)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

n.c.iowa

Kooiker - 8/6/2022 07:04

johnny skeptical - 8/5/2022 19:35

You can drink a beer with one hand, and drive the machine with the other.

. Drinking anything in a skid steer while moving is dangerous, IMO.

on our case skidder beverage holders, sunglasses, and a certificate of superior skidloader operational abilities deploy when you select ISO, everything retracts when H pattern is selected.

Just saying….

Brahamfiremen

Posted 8/6/2022 08:22 (#9782921 - in reply to #9782366)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Kooiker - 8/5/2022 20:04

johnny skeptical - 8/5/2022 19:35

You can drink a beer with one hand, and drive the machine with the other.

The only thing good about ISO is it allows you to drive across the yard with one hand. That’s it, the old H pattern is better in every other

I'll argue that every day, all day. Old H pattern with foot controls is good, true H pattern with no foot controls SUCKS. It's just awkward to push my arm forward, and try to twist my wrist to control the bucket while moving. Its 2 completely different actions, using both sides of the brain. ISO uses the right side of the brain for machine movement and the left side of the brain for loader function.

I got a new T770 at work with ISO, It was a tough learning curve the first few times but i love it now. Can't hardly run dad's old 863 with foot controls anymore I've gotten so spoiled with the ISO.

kipps

Posted 8/6/2022 08:55 (#9782974 - in reply to #9782921)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Madison Co. Virginia

Brahamfiremen - 8/6/2022 09:22
It's just awkward to push my arm forward, and try to twist my wrist to control the bucket while moving. Its 2 completely different actions, using both sides of the brain. ISO uses the right side of the brain for machine movement and the left side of the brain for loader function.

I don't think you'll find any iota of science to back that up. It's entirely what you get used to. I have absolutely no problem making an H-pattern machine do what I want; I just have to think that I want to move this scoop of feed from here to there, and it happens. There's no more conscious thought going into it than if I was using a hand shovel to accomplish the same thing.

I have no doubt that many people are as comfortable using ISO as I am using H pattern. I just really like H pattern from the mechanical simplicity aspect. The joystick axis are directly corresponding to what's happening, and there's no mechanical wizardry required to translate the stick movement into something the hydrostats and control valves can use.

Gearclash

Posted 8/6/2022 11:42 (#9783163 - in reply to #9782974)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Sioux County, NWIA

You touch on one of the reasons I won’t have ISO. As far as I know, all current ISO machines are fly by wire, and that gives a miserable response compared to the older mechanical control systems. Even H pattern electric over hydraulic is miserable.

johnny skeptical

Posted 8/6/2022 12:44 (#9783247 - in reply to #9783163)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

n.c.iowa

I think you and I have discussed this before, but I’ll agree I still prefer mechanical linkage lever to valve than electric over hydraulic.

Gearclash

Posted 8/6/2022 14:29 (#9783382 - in reply to #9783247)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Sioux County, NWIA

My brother has a CAT 226D where the bucket control will go totally jerky if you try to very slowly lower the bucket with a heavy load. Ask a tech about it and he will sigh, say we can try recalibrating it. If that doesn’t work we can replace the whole joystick module — and it might still be that way. I just shake my head. Dad’s 14,000 hr Case doesn’t do that . . .

kipps

Posted 8/6/2022 15:10 (#9783424 - in reply to #9783163)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Madison Co. Virginia

Gearclash - 8/6/2022 12:42

You touch on one of the reasons I won’t have ISO. As far as I know, all current ISO machines are fly by wire, and that gives a miserable response compared to the older mechanical control systems. Even H pattern electric over hydraulic is miserable.

Quite a few of the ISO machines are pilot controls. The ASV loaders I was looking at have that control system.

If I understand correctly, pilot controls just take those small pilot valves out of the hydrostat pumps, and move them into the control levers instead. There's some long small-diameter hoses that connect the pilot valve to the servo pistons in the pump. It functions exactly the same as the older machines that connected the control levers to the pilot valves with mechanical linkage, just without the sloppy joints.

That's just my limited understanding without having had a chance to dive under the hood of one of those pilot-control loaders. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

Ichabod2

Posted 8/5/2022 19:36 (#9782311 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Central WI

i tried running one the other day but gave up it seems good to dig holes with the tires and jerk you around but that’s just my opinion

silagehauler

Posted 8/5/2022 19:46 (#9782333 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Probably depends some on the specific machine, but something like this…

A; left track stationary, right track forward.

B; left track reverse, right track forward.

C left track reverse, right track stationary.

Don’t fear, for once I to spread the gospel of H-pattern. After a prophecy came me I bathed in the holy waters of ISO and rid my self of the demons of H pattern.

It just works better on these newer loaders. And with machine integration coming down the pike, it just makes more sense.

kipps

Posted 8/5/2022 19:54 (#9782355 - in reply to #9782333)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Madison Co. Virginia

silagehauler - 8/5/2022 20:46

Probably depends some on the specific machine, but something like this…

A; left track stationary, right track forward.

B; left track reverse, right track forward.

C left track reverse, right track stationary.

Don’t fear, for once I to spread the gospel of H-pattern. After a prophecy came me I bathed in the holy waters of ISO and rid my self of the demons of H pattern.

It just works better on these newer loaders. And with machine integration coming down the pike, it just makes more sense.

That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks. So basically every motion that can be performed in a H-pattern machine can also be done in a ISO machine. I've got an older Case loader, and have no intention of getting rid of it. I would like to get a newer tracked loader at some point, and I'm reluctant to keep both a H-pattern and a ISO-pattern in the arsenal at the same time.

What do you mean by 'machine integration'?

johnny skeptical

Posted 8/5/2022 20:43 (#9782435 - in reply to #9782355)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

n.c.iowa

Every motion that can be done on one can be done on the other….we have a 280 case that’s convertible between ISO or H pattern, my son likes H pattern I prefer ISO.

once I learned ISO I have a hard time going back to H pattern.

Kelly

Posted 8/5/2022 21:06 (#9782476 - in reply to #9782435)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

NC KS

We are the opposite. Son's skidder is selectable between patterns. He prefers ISO, I tolerate H. I haven't run his skidder bery much. Old Bobcat man so hands and feet win every time for me.

silagehauler

Posted 8/5/2022 20:53 (#9782459 - in reply to #9782355)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Machine integration allows the attachment and loader to talk to each other. For example, hook up a 6 way grader blade to a Cat 299 D3, the right stick controls the blade, left stick controls machine. Put on the a backhoe attachment, sticks control the backhoe. No need to get in and out. Really a game changer.

tillage-director

Posted 8/6/2022 07:12 (#9782817 - in reply to #9782355)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Central MN

Bobcat has machines that you can flip a switch between iso and H pattern. I'm an h pattern guy my cousin has a 590 with the switch. I used to play around with it in iso mode. Only bad thing about the switch was jumping in the machine expecting hand controls when someone had switched it to iso!

Dekalb

Posted 8/5/2022 20:16 (#9782389 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Deere machines have both with the flip of a switch. I prefer iso after years of running a case. About two days of running it in iso is all it took for me to get the hang of it

ag4life

Posted 8/5/2022 20:54 (#9782462 - in reply to #9782389)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Southern Illinois

I love the iso as a casual user. My right hand knows how to run a loader joystick like it has always done. The left moves the machine. H pattern drove me nuts. I might put 50 hrs a year on a skid steer

977.3Ford

Posted 8/5/2022 21:14 (#9782489 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

SW Ohio

ISO is definitely the better all-around option. I've ran 30 hours straight in our skid steers plowing snow and its just so easy to use one hand, a knee, elbow, whatever to keep the thing moving while the other hand is holding a phone, coffee thermos, or slapping yourself to stay awake. When working in tight areas with a lot of backing up you can sit a bit sideways in the seat like a tractor and do all your travel with your left hand. Its also handy to put somebody new in an ISO machine if they have any other front loader experience since your right stick is working the same. I will admit there have been a few hairy occasions where i would like the direct control of the drive like a H pattern or hand/foot machine, but never once has it crossed my mind to go back to the dark ages.

Also one of the Cats we used to have(switched to Kubota) had a creeper option which was very handy when trenching. I could set my travel speed with the trencher and hold the left stick all the way back and maintain speed. Just a nice little touch on big trenches.

Gearclash

Posted 8/5/2022 22:15 (#9782588 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Sioux County, NWIA

I’ve run em both. ISO just a little; somewhere between 7,500 and 10,000 hrs on H pattern. ISO would give you a free hand some of the time. It also might be a little easier for a excavator operator to pick up vs H pattern. IMO H pattern is slightly more reflexive than ISO. Trying to switch between the two is homicidally dangerous. ISO is not for me.

kipps

Posted 8/5/2022 22:29 (#9782605 - in reply to #9782588)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Madison Co. Virginia

Gearclash - 8/5/2022 23:15
Trying to switch between the two is homicidally dangerous.

That's my thinking.

My Case 1840 is a very handy machine, and as long as there's dairy cows on the place, it's staying. I would like to also get into some small scale excavating, such as new-construction lawn prep, using a tracked loader. I really like what I see in the smaller 75-horse ASV loaders, but they're ISO pilot controls. I haven't figured out yet if it's even possible to convert a pilot control machine from one control pattern to the other.

Gearclash

Posted 8/5/2022 23:04 (#9782636 - in reply to #9782605)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Sioux County, NWIA

Being in a dairy barn and switching between H and ISO is another whole level of exciting . . . been there, got the T shirt.

JTN

Posted 8/6/2022 06:08 (#9782744 - in reply to #9782636)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Easier to sit sideways in the seat and look over your right shoulder to make long runs in high range reverse with the skid steer out of the hay shed with iso.

riverrat08

Posted 8/5/2022 22:17 (#9782593 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Southeast iowa

ISO is point and go simple as that grew up in h pattern and unless it’s an old machine 1845 can’t hardly run a new one on h has to be iso get use to it and won’t got back

Dennis SEND

Posted 8/5/2022 22:38 (#9782612 - in reply to #9782593)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

ISO controls here, I have owned an excavator, dozer and wheel loader, using ISO on a skidsteers makes them all operate in a very similar manner, H pattern is just like a running a excavator on backhoe control, backwards for me just can get my brain to work correctly, but everyone is different and that is why machines have options cause not everyone likes things the same.

JDpastor

Posted 8/6/2022 23:46 (#9784117 - in reply to #9782612)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

I remember about 25 years ago when my cousin got a Gehl skid steer with ISO controls. I had a case with H controls. I hated running his because I was used to mine. I had decided that I never wanted a skid steer with ISO. Then I started running an excavator with backhoe controls regularly. The skid steer ISO controls are just like the swing on my excavator and it all just seems natural. Once I finally got a skid steer with ISO controls it took less than a half hour for it to just be normal after running the excavator and now I have no desire to go back to H controls.

Curious

Posted 8/6/2022 07:21 (#9782826 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

NW IA

Might just be me, but after about 8 months of ISO I still struggle a bit with a true in place pivot. Came from hand and foot Bobcat, and before that Case controls which in my opinion are the most intuitively easy.

I am now comfortable with the ISO.

Part of the problem I have may sound crazy, but I hate new tires on a skidder. The bite makes everything jerkier. ( also wrecks hay fields if you don't make long turns )

IMHO if I could have gotten to know my new machine on bald tires it would have been easier

FJS

Posted 8/6/2022 07:47 (#9782857 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Tomball,Texas

My experience with this
I have an 1845c case since new in 1998,case 465 since new in 2007 and I had Case 450 track machine that I replaced with a Kubota 95.The cases are all H pattern and Kubota is ISO,The 1845 stays in the feedmill loading the mixer and the 465 is used mostly as a forklift loading logs and moving pallets of feed and bundles of lumber,Kubota does dirt work and land clearing work.Fortunately I can go from h pattern to iso without any problems,the only time I dislike the kubota is when the pallet forks are on it,I can’t turn with it as smooth as I can with the 465 case and I have to be careful not to loose what ever I’m carrying because it seems like no matter how easy I am with it one track wants to go forward and one wants to go backwards and the farther into the turn I get it actually speeds up.If your doing dirt work it’s not a problem.
I wish I had a 450 case with the kubota tracks,they were the weak point on the case,and the visibility on the kubota is terrible doing pallet fork stuff.

seedcleaner

Posted 8/6/2022 08:05 (#9782886 - in reply to #9782302)
Subject: RE: yet another h-pattern vs iso post....

Mid-Missouri

ISO is really the new method and the method the industry is going towards. It offers several advantages.

One slight challenge IMO with ISO is if you want to drive and start a turn, but the tracks/tires have a high degree of traction, the machine may not turn as it normally would. Because of that, you compensate by moving the joystick to turn harder. As soon as the machine does turn, it may turn more than intended. I feel like this scenario is a bit more predictable in H pattern.

Another advantage for H pattern is when you are working on the tires/tracks on one side of the machine, for example installing a track. It is much easier to drive one side while working on it in H pattern.

Overall, I much prefer ISO. Most new/newer machines offer a pattern change by the push of a button to go between the modes.

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