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Pole Barn Advice
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Kneedeep 2011
Posted 4/2/2016 21:19 (#5217693)
Subject: Pole Barn Advice


North Mississippi Delta / Alabama Gulf Coast

Planning to put up a open pole barn to get tractors and some equipment under cover. I was looking at Post Protectors for the 6 X 6 PT post. Mfg suggest setting on stone and backfilling with stone as well for drainage.

Anyone ever use them? I don't plan on enclosing the shed in the future, just a open roof only.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Post-Protector-6-in-x-6-in-x-42-in-Post-Protector-6642/203165686

 

TIA

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IL cow man
Posted 4/3/2016 05:59 (#5218022 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


Buffalo IL		Don't know how well they work. I my self saw on Tv a commercial for flex seal that can be painted on to things and thought that might be a good way to seal posts.
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L Wilson
Posted 4/3/2016 06:15 (#5218030 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


McComb,Ohio		That will be the cheapest $25 you will ever spend. They will rot off in 25-30 years it is no fun digging them up to repair. I put them on both of my barns. Good luck
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Kneedeep 2011
Posted 4/3/2016 06:44 (#5218060 - in reply to #5218030)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


North Mississippi Delta / Alabama Gulf Coast

Did you backfill with stone or concrete?

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David in MD
Posted 4/3/2016 06:57 (#5218072 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



I never figured out what sealed the top to keep water from running down between the sleeve and post or what prevented uplift. The last two buildings I built I used these http://www.planetsaverind.com/. The buildings aren't old enough yet to know if they really do what they say. I do have a Morton building built in 1984 which the treated posts rotted off just below the ground level. That finished me with Morton buildings and putting unprotected treated lumber directly into the ground.
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Kneedeep 2011
Posted 4/3/2016 07:34 (#5218134 - in reply to #5218072)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


North Mississippi Delta / Alabama Gulf Coast

The manual shows drainage channels vertically to drain away water. Stone is used in bottom to weep water away. Uplift areas built in and 2  1/2" lagbolts per post.

If I read the manual right, drain holes in bottom are drilled out for open sheds.

Looks like if installed properly would work.

 http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/8b/8b134840-cd11-434d-87e5-25d5f2225d3f.pdf

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Illinois Steve
Posted 4/3/2016 08:29 (#5218279 - in reply to #5218072)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


North Central Illinois		Just about any building built back then would of had unprotected poles in the ground. As far as I know most pole buildings were built this way until probably around 1990 or a little later. Morton actually has one of the better systems now which can be copied on other buildings as well.
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 4/3/2016 07:38 (#5218142 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



northeastern Ohio		My opinion: drill a 10" hole and fill with concrete. Put a post connector in the concrete. Nothing in the ground to rot.

Amish building crew makes connectors like the picture below. Cost about $10 if I remember correctly.



(postanchor.jpg)



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newholland4life
Posted 4/4/2016 08:56 (#5220574 - in reply to #5218142)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



New castle PA		I like.
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Dave9110
Posted 4/3/2016 07:49 (#5218176 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



north-central Indiana west of Fulton		Why not use Perma-columns on the end of the posts?
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Kneedeep 2011
Posted 4/3/2016 08:02 (#5218211 - in reply to #5218176)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


North Mississippi Delta / Alabama Gulf Coast

Dave9110 - 4/3/2016 07:49 Why not use Perma-columns on the end of the posts?

Perma-columns and post anchors on top of concrete are for enclosed buildings with sidewalls or structures anchored to a building like a deck or lean to shed.

 For a open roof only build, post need to be in the ground to prevent horizontal shear pressure. I don't want this to happen!



Edited by Kneedeep 2011 4/3/2016 08:04




(40x80 FAIL.jpg)



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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 4/3/2016 08:26 (#5218271 - in reply to #5218211)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



northeastern Ohio		Those pictures do not show any diagonal bracing on the side wall corners. If they are properly braced, they should not fail like that. But I am not am structural engineer either. Maybe the bracing would interfere with how you use this building and therefore might not work for you. If so, then disregard my recommendation.

Permacolums are great, but expensive. I used a couple for a remodel and I think they were about $100 each.
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 4/3/2016 08:56 (#5218333 - in reply to #5218271)
Subject: RE: our 3 sided heifer barn



northeastern Ohio		We put up a heifer barn in 2010 that has 3 sides closed with one open side. Used the concrete connector brackets to attach the posts to a sub wall. Here are some pics of the diagonal knee braces on the open side:



(079 (Medium).jpg)



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Dave9110
Posted 4/3/2016 08:38 (#5218292 - in reply to #5218211)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



north-central Indiana west of Fulton		You are saying just a roof then? We have a 3 sided building that the Perma columns came already bolted to the posts. Like Jay said maybe it is a lack of proper bracing not what is at the end of the post that caused failure.....don't know .
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Rod Maker
Posted 4/3/2016 08:46 (#5218312 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



Westport, IN		I like it this way
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Badger
Posted 4/3/2016 08:50 (#5218317 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


Huntley Montana

Just go STEEL with a concrete footings.  About the same $$, 10x the building.

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Tim in WI
Posted 4/3/2016 20:01 (#5219542 - in reply to #5218317)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



Embarrass WI
Badger - 4/3/2016 08:50

Just go STEEL with a concrete footings.  About the same $$, 10x the building.



^^^ He speaks the truth. ^^^
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JRthefarmer
Posted 4/3/2016 09:13 (#5218377 - in reply to #5217693)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice



SESD		Do not use rock of any kind for backfill around a post. In a high wind situation, the building may start to wiggle and as the post moves, the rock sifts in underneath the post, thus basically pulling it out of the ground gradually until the wind takes the whole building. Either put some concrete in the bottom and top off with dirt, or use dirt for the whole thing.
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Kneedeep 2011
Posted 4/3/2016 09:51 (#5218463 - in reply to #5218377)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


North Mississippi Delta / Alabama Gulf Coast

I see a lot of pole barns, steel and PT wood roof only with open bays for equipment access. The collapsed roof was in South Al and I looked at it to buy material only (On CL). Most of the trusses were twisted and roofing was about 75% torn at fasteners.

Owner furnished 6 x6 post brackets from Lowes and installer used them. Sides were to be added later for a shop but wind got under it and it dominoed down as you see. I don't think any surface mount bracket would have prevented the collapse without horizontal braced side walls on at least one long side. Owner refused to name supplier or contractor at the time but blamed it on both.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_177803-166-PA46E-TZ_1z0yk8s__?productId=3692000&pl=1

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Kneedeep 2011
Posted 4/3/2016 10:43 (#5218565 - in reply to #5218377)
Subject: RE: Pole Barn Advice


North Mississippi Delta / Alabama Gulf Coast

JRthefarmer - 4/3/2016 09:13 Do not use rock of any kind for backfill around a post. In a high wind situation, the building may start to wiggle and as the post moves, the rock sifts in underneath the post, thus basically pulling it out of the ground gradually until the wind takes the whole building. Either put some concrete in the bottom and top off with dirt, or use dirt for the whole thing.

I prefer to extend concrete up out of ground to protect base from groundwater if possible with Sonotube



Edited by Kneedeep 2011 4/3/2016 10:48
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