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SW MINNESOTA | Any run a compatible case magnum or jd 8r tractor where only difference was the transmission? Have heard the Cvt/ivt steals a lot of power and the powershift pulls better. How true is that? |
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| I will say that a John Deere 8310R with powershift will outpull a John Deere 8360R with IVT. No I can’t prove it but that is our personal experience. |
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Shelburne Ontario Canada | We run 2014 315 cvt and a 2012 315 19 spd powershift. We all run for cvt first.
Both are saddle suspension. Powershift is 710r38 and cvt is 710r42 s so it has a bit more tire. Had them both at local pull. Cvt was 5 ft ahead of powershift. Both stock power. If money was no issue we would trade both powershifts on cvts yet too. |
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perryton, tx | I’ll take the CVT every time, but I will say it’s noisier than a powershift which is kind of annoying. |
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SW MINNESOTA | Because you like running it better or because it pulls better? |
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perryton, tx | I like operating the CVT better. I haven’t run a powershift tractor in 4 or 5 years but if there’s a difference in pulling power with the equipment we run I haven’t noticed it. |
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West Central Mo | while I do think PS might pull a little better I'd still prefer an IVT |
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Southern, WI | i don’t even think it’s close powershift wins |
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South-central Nebraska | Deere 8R power shift vs IVT I prefer the power shift and think it has greater pulling ability. I put quite a few hours on both. |
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| We have a 8320r powershift and a 8320r ivt specked the exact same. Both on exact same silage wagons with scales weighing the same and the ivt pulls the same hill at the same mph. The powershift feels superior in the seat but it seems to me that the ivt pulls just as hard. I’d take the ivt any day over the powershift. |
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Shelburne Ontario Canada | Powershifts are said to pull harder. I dont understand. It must be driver error of sorts. Unless its an ontario thing. All i can say is back wen we could go away an live life an had tractor pulls it wasnt the powershifts scratching there way out the end. |
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Southeast Washington | Just like my reply the other day I want to see the big dogs pulling the snot out of things in hills both up and down holding back a loaded gain cart. Since Fendt isn't going go offer a power shift in the big two track then they are going to have to prove what their CVT will do. Constant speed isn't our concern. Getting HP to the drawbar and holding back a semi load of grain on slopes most of you wouldn't want to farm its what we are looking at. Engine brake probably going to be a must.
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| Fendt is the brand of choice for guys pulling manure tankers.
I would guess that is pretty much a stress test for a tractor. |
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Southern MN | My biggest concern would be the durability of an IVT in a 8000 or larger tractor. Put one in a 2000 hr 8360R last year, very expensive even with Deere paying for the labor. Also had have some transmission work done on a lower hour PS last year, about 40% the cost of what the full bill for the IVT would have been. First transmission troubles in my families lifetimes, hope it is not a trend. |
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southeast Washington | nice pictures |
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SW Ontario | A couple years ago we rented our 875 ripper to a friend of ours to pull with their 250 Magnum powershift. He was too busy with other things so I ended up running the tractor for him. Half way across the farm the tractor had a breakdown so we ended up putting our 250 Magnum CVT on the ripper to finish the farm as rain was coming.
The CVT outpulled the powershift hands down. When you came to a tough knoll the powershift would start to fall on its face (even at full throttle) unless you started grabbing gears but would lose quite a bit of ground speed. Th engine load on the powershift never went above 100%. Whereas the CVT would lug down better and hold a more constant ground speed. In general the CVT could do the job at a lower RPM at the same speed but when it needed extra power it would go well above 100% engine load to hold the set speed. Even when you dropped the ripper at the headland you could almost stall the powershift but the CVT seemed to have more jam to pick itself up and go!
Both tractors were weighted the same, same suspension and tires, no depth adjustments were made to the ripper.
Since Case came out with the software to switch between shuttle mode and eco draft they have turned these large frame CVT tractors into pulling machines. Do not do hard work on shuttle mode and don't do gentle work on eco draft. When in the field on eco draft make sure you pull the cvt handle all the way back and come to a complete stop before touching the shuttle handle. When the tractor is in shuttle mode you can run it like a mini magnum and its extremely smooth.
We were always under the assumption powershifts outpulled CVTs but our first hand experience proved that wrong for us anyways. |
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Jeffersonville, OH | Glenn W. - 4/14/2021 22:44
Just like my reply the other day I want to see the big dogs pulling the snot out of things in hills both up and down holding back a loaded gain cart. Since Fendt isn't going go offer a power shift in the big two track then they are going to have to prove what their CVT will do. Constant speed isn't our concern. Getting HP to the drawbar and holding back a semi load of grain on slopes most of you wouldn't want to farm its what we are looking at. Engine brake probably going to be a must.
Do you use any sort of engine braking now holding loaded carts back on those hills with the powershift? Just curious, as I would think that amount of weight would want to push anything down the hill.
Chris |
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Southeast Washington | Yes we have engine braking on our 620 quad. It pulls the sprayer and a grain cart so is very welcome to take pressure off using the brakes. The old Case IH tractors didn't have brakes worthy of holding back a load on the hills so most running those on carts added a Jake Brake because one disk on the driveline isn't sufficient in hills. The STX was a welcome upgrade to real brakes.
It's like the trucks, once you have an engine brake it is hard to go without. For cart work people will grab the engine brake tractor first. The problem is though for heavy grunt work you are going to grab the C18 Challenger first.
I know I'm beating the horse about CVT in big tractors since it is relatively new and the quad does have issues that keep it from being the clear takeover. When you depend on one tractor to get the seeding done you don't want it down when it is go time. I do know the manufacturers do watch this stuff and will contact you from time to time.
When the power shift option has been taken away you expect good testing to show you the answers. From what I heard the Fendt tested in the area played some in hills and then shipped back to the factory for inspection. The main mechanic for the dealership didn't see it run or hear how it performed. Keeping tight lipped other than to say we tried breaking it but it didn't doesn't assure potential owners.
Anyway some more pictures for the heck of it.
Edit to add: yes brakes are used pulling an air cart downhill with the shanks in the ground. An engine brake would be nice for that too.
Edited by Glenn W. 4/15/2021 11:04
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E ND | I think the old "CVT's drain power" is just a wive's tale going back to hydro's and other attempts at it. In the AGCO CVT there is a hydrostat component of how it varies the power delivery and speed but from my understanding of that system it's never actually transferring power hydrostatically except in reverse.
Powershifts have a lot of moving parts and parasitic loss in their own rite, so is there a difference there? Not really sure but I think it's pretty negligible.
The CVT's are definitely able to "find" more power and productivity in the gaps in speed and pulling power in a powershift transmission and let the logic in the engine lug it down into the ideal powerband, a decision usually left to the operator in a powershift. Unless you've studied the torque curves and are an engineer, it's pretty hard to get that right 100% of the time! They'll handle variable loads throughout the field more efficiently and get more done in a day when you're not hunting for the right gear or settling for a gear that's not quite fast enough to use the HP.
If you have an application that requires max HP and super consistent ground conditions, you could just as well have a powershift. |
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CVT/ IVT vs powershift
